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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 08-06-2012, 10:04 AM
Sphinx15 Sphinx15 is offline
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Thumbs down 2012 X5 Rear-ended, searched, a few remaining questions - Paging ARD

I've done some research and read some great posts by Ard and some others on what to do, but before I start this process I want to make sure I've got my game plan in place. My wife was rear-ended yesterday by a woman while in DC. The woman has Gieco as her insurance, and called her insurance company on the spot to let them know what happened.

2012 x5 3.5i with just under 11K miles, damage looks cosmetic only, but we don't know for sure. Unfortunately I'm on the other side of the country for the next couple of days on business so I wasn't around to assist and I won't be able to really help deal with this until later in the week or the weekend.

From what I've read, these are the things we need to do and considerations to make:

1. Take the SAV to body shops and get written estimates. I plan on taking to the dealer because I really want a full inspection of the damage and then to another shop like wagonwerks if it is only cosmetic for a second written quote. Do this first before allowing Gieco to look at the damages.

2. Keep track of all time spent on dealing with process

3. Get a diminished value estimate, it seems like a good place to do this is at www.dvassess.com

4. . Send/upload Gieco a written demand letter for losses with documentation

Remaining questions:
- When do I contact her insurance company during the process?
- Should I have all communication in writing from Gieco?
- How do I try and get compensated for time spent dealing with this? Is there standardized way to determine how much I can be compensated per-hour?
- Should I consider contacting my insurance company to deal with this at any point? If so, when in the process?
- Is there anything else I'm overlooking here, or any other advice?

*edit, another question - are they responsible for providing a rental vehicle that is equal (or as close to equal) as our X5, or just any rental car?

Thanks for the help.

Last edited by Sphinx15; 08-06-2012 at 11:24 AM.
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  #2  
Old 08-06-2012, 10:58 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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First of all I am glad no one was hurt! This is a bummer! Well, by now of course GEICO has already contacted you, and you have taken the car into the dealer's body shop for an inspection and estimate of repair. There are three things to consider: (1) Cost of repairs done to YOUR satisfaction (2) A replacement vehicle while yours is in the shop -- or a "loss of use payment" (3) compensation for diminished value of your car -- this really depends on the actual damage. If it were, say, just a bumper cover and that was replaced ther would be little if any "diminished value" to your car. However, if structure and body parts were involved then there almost certainly would be, especially if the repair were listed on the maintentance and repair history. I believe you may have a duty to notify your insurance company that your wife was involved in an accident if the cost rises above a certain threshold too. Good luck and these are real PITA's!
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  #3  
Old 08-06-2012, 11:05 AM
Sphinx15 Sphinx15 is offline
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Thanks UncleJ, our 4 month old son was in the car at the time of the accident. He actually slept through the whole thing and I think these things tend to rattle the nerves more than anything.

This all happend late yesterday afternoon, and there has been no contact made at all with Gieco yet which is why I really want to have my ducks in a row. I would hope our premiums wouldn't go up since we are not at-fault in this incident. I absolutely agree/know about repairs done to my satisfaction, I won't be settling for anything less.
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  #4  
Old 08-06-2012, 11:32 AM
Sphinx15 Sphinx15 is offline
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Update - I talked to the dealer and got the body shop they outsource to. I also talked to WagonWorks, and they told me that Gieco's policy is to come do the damage assessment first, then they come back and do a second at the shop once they vehicle is apart and they know the real extent of it so they don't do a written quote first...does this sound normal? They actually said in their experience Gieco is very good about covering discrepancies between the initial estimate and actual...
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  #5  
Old 08-06-2012, 12:32 PM
jashearer jashearer is offline
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I've been going through this exact situation for a little over a month now. Here is how I handled it.

I was rear-ended while sitting at a stoplight by a 16 y/o. I called the police and had a report filed on the spot which shows that he was at fault and he received a ticket (this is the most import step and hopefully your wife didn't miss it).

I made contact with my insurance to make sure they were aware but told them I would be pursuing his insurance and was told they could handle and subrogate if I ran into any hassles what so ever. Verified no increase to my insurance.

I then made contact with his insurance the next day and started the claims process, I already had the quote from the body shop the dealer uses for all bmw/insurance work and made sure the quote was replacing not repairing all impacted parts (bumper cover, lower tailgate, bumper trims, heat shield). They sent an adjuster a couple days later to verify the damage and check off the line items in the quote. I then received a check approximately 2 weeks later.

I had the body shop order the parts as soon as the check showed up, but have been waiting almost 2 weeks for them to show up . His insurance has called asking when I will need a rental car since they have a deal with enterprise and they will book the rental for me (haven't crossed the type of car bridge yet, guessing enterprise in Davenport IA won't have comparable to 2012 X5 with 12k miles).

I have not even mentioned the diminished value or time-lost claims yet, figured I wanted to get the normal stuff taken care of before I piss them off. I have spreadsheet started if you want to PM me your e-mail I can send it over. It shows the impact on value using a couple websites when you select perfect quality and then when you select good quality. As well the wording from the websites which shows an accident itself can make that hit regardless of any other item on the list.

Jay
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  #6  
Old 08-06-2012, 12:53 PM
ard ard is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sphinx15 View Post
Update - I talked to the dealer and got the body shop they outsource to. I also talked to WagonWorks, and they told me that Gieco's policy is to come do the damage assessment first, then they come back and do a second at the shop once they vehicle is apart and they know the real extent of it so they don't do a written quote first...does this sound normal? They actually said in their experience Gieco is very good about covering discrepancies between the initial estimate and actual...
Hey.

If a body shop tells me that, I immediately say "That may be their policy, but that is not what **I** want to do".

Remember, Geico's 'policies' are NOT binding on YOU, they are binding on the person with the Geico insurance (ie not you but the other guy)

The most important thing when dealing with insurers is to establish power and control- and the more you control the situation, the more likely they are to want to settle in your favor... it is a fine line as to how you do this and how much of an AH you need to be. Usually not much, just subtly not following their instructions and moving it forward on your own terms- saying 'you need to do what you need to do, but it will be on my terms and schedule' You've told the shop you will have Geico pay it...so they are doing what Geico wants. Had you said "I may pay it and send it to geico, or have my insurance subrogate it- but I need an estimate first' then maybe you'd have the paper. My biggest issue with the shops is 'perfection'- I want the $$$ in the bid to get it perfect, no corners cut. Shops know that they had BETTER get it perfect, so they will fight with the insurer for extras here or there.

(You should know that when the Geico adjuster is in the shop reviewing the job it really is a 'lets make a deal' situation..."I'll give you this" or "looks like you can make that work" or "Take care of me here and I'll make it up there"... you need to recognize that YOU are the 3rd wheel- they work with each other all the time.)

IMO you should be able to rent an SUV if they damaged an SUV. Recognize they may deny it and you'll file a small claims action against the other driver (rare)... most times everyone folds and makes due with a sedan...they will always say 'doesnt cover that' or 'our limit is'...but if you rent one and turn in the bill, IMO they WILL pay it in the end.

Finally, DV has less to do with WHAT was damaged and more to do with just the history of damage. You know that carfax (et al) will just say 'damage to rear'...whether it is a skined bumper or a crushed rear floor pan, the report will be the same. Potential buyers will not know what happened, and the 'hit' will (probably) be the same.
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  #7  
Old 08-06-2012, 02:52 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Interesting stories about insurance companies and repair facilities. When I had to repair my BMW I contacted the insurance company and they provided me with a list of preferred repair facilities. I was free to choose any repair facility I wished but I had heard good things about their preferred facility.

I made an appointment with the repair facility and when I arrived an associate came out and reviewed the damage. At the same time he took various pictures. We then went back inside where he sat down at his computer and looked up the parts he could visibly see as needing replaced along with one's he suspected might need replaced. This was the initial estimate. He stated it was preliminary as it's likely there were things underneath the body panels which would require attention.

Work then proceeded and various photos taken and made available to me as the work progressed. It tooks about 3-4 days to complete all the repairs and when I was done the vehicle looked better than it had before it was involved in the accident. The whole process was painless and took about an hour of my time. All the paperwork was handled between the repair facility and the insurance company. Overall a very positive experience with the insurance company and the repair facility.
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  #8  
Old 08-06-2012, 03:03 PM
Sphinx15 Sphinx15 is offline
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Thanks all for the replies and Ard for chiming in. I've contacted two other body shops and my wife will be getting estimates this week with part lists.

jashearer, PM incoming, sorry you are going through this as well. Here is the link i found helpful for DV: http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/880666/

I'll keep updating this thread, any other tips and advice are appreciated, especially around getting compensated for time spend dealing with this or any other advice on dealing with DV claims.
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  #9  
Old 08-06-2012, 04:36 PM
ard ard is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
when I was done the vehicle looked better than it had before it was involved in the accident. .
wow. Go figure.

You work for the car repair industry or what?

Sure sounds like nobody has nothing to worry about....

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  #10  
Old 08-08-2012, 11:29 AM
RaleighX5 RaleighX5 is offline
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Well, I can pretty much tell you exactly how this will play out as far as Diminished Value where Geico is concerned as I already went thru this. You can get whatever DV estimate you want and submit it to Geico, they are just going to get their own appraiser out there (and who is essentially on retainer by Geico) to lowball the amount. If your state provides for arbitration to resolve the differences between your DV appraisal and theirs, then you can try that. In my case, the arbitration amount was around halfway between their estimate and mine and they flat rejected it. I then had to take them to court, and by the time of the trial, they offered to settle for slightly more than their original offer. Lawyer suggested that I take it (long story, but he was actually acting against his interest in favor of mine from a financial point of view). In the end, I received about 50% of the repair amount as DV for a 5 month old X5 with 5K miles.

Bottom-line: Good luck working with Geico.
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  #11  
Old 08-08-2012, 02:03 PM
ard ard is online now
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Originally Posted by RaleighX5 View Post
Well, I can pretty much tell you exactly how this will play out as far as Diminished Value where Geico is concerned as I already went thru this. You can get whatever DV estimate you want and submit it to Geico, they are just going to get their own appraiser out there (and who is essentially on retainer by Geico) to lowball the amount. If your state provides for arbitration to resolve the differences between your DV appraisal and theirs, then you can try that. In my case, the arbitration amount was around halfway between their estimate and mine and they flat rejected it. I then had to take them to court, and by the time of the trial, they offered to settle for slightly more than their original offer. Lawyer suggested that I take it (long story, but he was actually acting against his interest in favor of mine from a financial point of view). In the end, I received about 50% of the repair amount as DV for a 5 month old X5 with 5K miles.

Bottom-line: Good luck working with Geico.
This is more in line with what i've heard. They will certainly not be helpful.

Thanks for putting up the fight...more people should

A
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  #12  
Old 08-09-2012, 04:38 AM
swagy swagy is offline
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Don't forget to have them replace the child safety seat too.
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  #13  
Old 08-09-2012, 08:25 AM
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AutoUnion AutoUnion is offline
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I have Geico and have just gone thru a claim. Just an FYI, they will try to tell you to go to a "Geico XPRESS" shop, but refuse. They are completely junk.

Since you aren't paying for it, I'd go to the most expensive and highly regarded shop in the area. Ask what your local BMW dealer suggests. My brother lives in NoVA and there are some highly skilled shops around and Geico will pay, but you just have to wait for an adjustor to come out and approve everything.

Another thing is that Geico loves aftermarket parts, but there are very few of them made for the X5 and they probably won't fit right. Make sure the body shop pushes Geico to use OEM.

And for a repair shop, I highly suggest this place in Tysons Corner. I was helping my brother get his VW CC fixed and they were fantastic. It also helps that they work on Astons, Audis, Porsche, Ferraris, etc

http://www.tysonscornercollisioncent...dy-repair.aspx


good luck on the repair OP.
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  #14  
Old 08-09-2012, 10:22 AM
jashearer jashearer is offline
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Originally Posted by swagy View Post
Don't forget to have them replace the child safety seat too.
I didn't think about this, is there a guideline for mph? My son was in his Britax in the back seat, the impact was fairly soft but curious on any rule of thumb.

Jay
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  #15  
Old 08-09-2012, 07:46 PM
cravin cravin is offline
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You're supposed to replace after ANY collision, no matter how soft
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:45 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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I thought it was any collision the airbags deployed.
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:04 AM
cravin cravin is offline
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I thought it was any collision the airbags deployed.
I'm pretty close with a guy that sells tons of car seats. He was telling me that the foam is designed to handle single collision. If there was jarring from sudden impact, that it should be replaced. That being said, considering your child didn't even wake up makes me think that it wasn't all that big of an impact, so you're probably fine. It's just one of those things where I'd prefer to be safe than sorry, so I'd replace it for anything that caused damage to the vehicle.
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  #18  
Old 08-10-2012, 09:25 AM
ard ard is online now
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Google this question,..PLENTY of info already out there.

Here are the relevant points:

1. The person at fault is responsible for this expense. Period
2. Car Manufactures WRITTEN guidelines in the document yoiu receive shall prevail...even if NHTSA has differnt guidelines.
3. NHTSA guidelines do not require replacemnt in a mild crash, AND they list the criteria. This crash meets all those criteria.

GL

A
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:12 AM
jashearer jashearer is offline
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Sphinx - any update?

I finally got most of my claim settled with the insurance company I was dealing with. I was going to start a new thread for info, but before I throw the towel in on the lost time claim (they assure me that since I had no financial loss they would not pay for the time I spent dealing with them). Seems reasonable, other things I did fight for like strictly OE parts and the body shop I wanted and the diminished value using my process not their random number (which was lower).

Jay
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