Tip-in...Is this dealer trying to blowing smoke?

Had my 2011 528i in for service the other day and talked to my SA about tip-in delay. I had all my bases covered about it, even had a print-out of the SIB. He says that was the last fix they had and it was causing problems with the radios in cars that had the latest update. Has anyone that has had the update had any problems with their radios after having update done? Or is he trying to blow smoke up my a$$?

All my presets disappeared after the update. Other than that, no problems. The flash made no difference to the tip-in issue though. The issue is unresolved.

yes, after the update is done, the screen will keep jumpping aound in radio mode, never stay at the channel I am listening.......no impact, but pretty XXXX....

also, they updated me that BMW's new instruction is not to update any SW w/o pre-approval with confirmed problem.

If you have the SW already loaded, they will not re-load. ( I asked them to re-load to see if it will fix the issue or not )

I am still drivng the same old car with more problem after the update......

Had mine do a month ago without any negative issues.

The local service personnel did not know about the specific SIB I got from this forum. They looked it up and acknowledged that it was an update that could be done. After the download to my 2011, the service tech received numerous "faults" which he had to clear manually. The entire process took two days. After this, the tip-in is better, not great. All the radio presets had been cleared and had to be reprogrammed. One of the presets requires me to push it twice to activate properly. Seems like something is desperately wrong with the BMW update process. Very happy Apple is better.

I just got my 2011 528i out of the shop for the warranty maintenance. The Service Agent acknowledged the throttle delay issue, but said they could not find a software update for it. So, still the aggrevating delay on acceleration. Really poor support from BMW on an obvious and well documented problem.

Is the tip in definitely cured in2012 models?

Go and test drive one. That's the only way to know. BMW won't tell you, that's for sure.

Originally Posted by Donm

Is the tip in definitely cured in2012 models?

I drove the 2012 328i, the 528i, the 335i, and the 535i, both standard and sport, and they ALL exhibited the tip-in delay. It was somewhat better when driving in sport mode, but it was still present and annoying. It was annoying enough to make me reconsider my car-buying plans, and I bought another brand after being in BMW's for the past 12 years.

2011 528i here. Had my software updated in May. Linearity of its acceleration from a stop seemed to be a little better, but over time is has become as bad as it ever was. I can't help but think that this Adaptive Throttle feature is problematic. It doesn't make sense to pair two adaptive systems (the car and the driver) and expect them to work it out in a predictable manner.

I have a new 2012 528i (N20 engine) which I purchased in May of this year (build date 4/12). I moved to this car from a Jag XF and we also own a Z4 3.0Si coupe which has the N52 engine.

I cannot say that I have noticed any tip in or throttle delay issues with the 528i. In fact I noticed that the car's response in comfort mode improved over time as the adaptive throttle software adjusted to my driving style. In sport and sport + mode, the tip in seemed slightly over aggressive after comfort mode, but I adapted quickly and easily to the new calibration.

What is interesting is that with the much earlier build up of torque in a turbo charged engine when compared to the naturally aspirated N52, there is a completely different feel to throttle response. The torque in the turbo N20 arrives much earlier and much more quickly than the slower and more progressive torque build up in the N52. The result is that the N20 feels like you get a pause and then a rush, whereas the N52 has little or no low end torque (certainly below 1800 rpm) so the apparent rush is not present. I am beginning to wonder if the problems people are observing may not be something to do with the different torque curves of the engines. My Jag had 385 bhp V8 and it certainly still needed a hard shove on the throttle to get her moving, but this seemed related to the torque characteristics of the engine.

Anyway just a thought since this issue seems to be causing a lot of concern. However I must admit to either not noticing the problem, or I have adapted to it if it indeed exists in my 528i.

U

Originally Posted by w5lx

I drove the 2012 328i, the 528i, the 335i, and the 535i, both standard and sport, and they ALL exhibited the tip-in delay.

I can see that with the smaller engines. With a 550i in sport mode you won't experience a tip-in delay as such.

If the turbos are not spooled because you have been driving slowly, then you will notice turbo lag. However this means you have 340hp instantly from the 4.4l V8, and the full 400hp within a second once the twin turbos kick in.

Obviously the smaller the engine, the more noticeable the power gap before the turbos. With a V8 it's not a big deal, it's still a V8. That said some 2.0T drivers in the 528i say they don't notice it either. It's all about your expectations.

Note this applies for cars with the optional sport automatic. I have not driven the standard 550i.

What I have noticed over 20 months (wow!) and 23k worth of driving:

First, there are two separate issues. The first is initial throttle tip in, that is, the ability to pull away from a stop or a rolling stop smoothly. This is not a power production issue, per se. It is a power delivery issue. The throttle and transmission cannot get coordinated and the result is .....wait....wait.....wait.....GO!!!

The second issue is a kickdown / power delivery issue. That is, you are cruising along at say 40 mph and want to go for a gap in traffic. You depress the throttle and....nothing then....GO! A 2-3 gear downshift and you take off like a bat out of hell.

The 8 speed auto will be VERY conservative if you generally drive around slowly, as I must living where I live and driving in the traffic that I do. Driving every day, you don't really notice it, but the car likes to loaf around at about 1,100 RPM. And it doesn't like to downshift. You really need to get on it in order to downshift, and then it's a 2-3 gear downshift instead of a more gentle one gear downshift. It's very annoying.

Putting the car in sport helps, however it is a big jump from normal drive. Upshifts occur 2-3k RPM higher and the car hangs onto gears. It's a great attack mode, but not great for sporty cruising.

The M5 has three levels of transmission programming. If the F10 had the base programming reserved for Eco Pro only, had another mode as it's base, and then had the sport mode, it would be much better.

The A6 with the same transmission is not nearly as reluctant to downshift. It's all in the programming. BMW's got the adaptive settings too conservative.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

What I have noticed over 20 months (wow!) and 23k worth of driving:

First, there are two separate issues. The first is initial throttle tip in, that is, the ability to pull away from a stop or a rolling stop smoothly. This is not a power production issue, per se. It is a power delivery issue. The throttle and transmission cannot get coordinated and the result is .....wait....wait.....wait.....GO!!!

The second issue is a kickdown / power delivery issue. That is, you are cruising along at say 40 mph and want to go for a gap in traffic. You depress the throttle and....nothing then....GO! A 2-3 gear downshift and you take off like a bat out of hell.

Bingo!That's exactly what I experienced. The 2nd issue is very disconcerting when you need to make a sudden lane change, or need instant acceleration to enter a freeway from an on-ramp. I guess there are many who get accustomed to it and live with it but I want instant acceleration when I hit the throttle.

Originally Posted by w5lx

Bingo!That's exactly what I experienced. The 2nd issue is very disconcerting when you need to make a sudden lane change, or need instant acceleration to enter a freeway from an on-ramp. I guess there are many who get accustomed to it and live with it but I want instant acceleration when I hit the throttle.

If you don't have initial tip in delay, try the sprint booster. It helps with this a lot.

Originally Posted by w5lx

I drove the 2012 328i, the 528i, the 335i, and the 535i, both standard and sport, and they ALL exhibited the tip-in delay.

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot

I can see that with the smaller engines. With a 550i in sport mode you won't experience a tip-in delay as such.

I don't know guys, but my throttle response is immediate. Granted, I'm the one having a full control over which gear the car is in and at what rpm regime engine is running, but even on slow rolling in a second gear the throttle input is immediate. Even if engine takes a second to get to 1,300 rpm and then takes off full blast, it is pretty obvious that throttle input is there.

I'm curious to find out what experience with throttle input have F10 owners with MT, regardless of the engine.

Originally Posted by w5lx

Bingo!That's exactly what I experienced. The 2nd issue is very disconcerting when you need to make a sudden lane change, or need instant acceleration to enter a freeway from an on-ramp. I guess there are many who get accustomed to it and live with it but I want instant acceleration when I hit the throttle.

If you have paddle shifters, as I do, then "click, click, stomp" works great!

Left paddle...once you lift, tranny returns to D.

Originally Posted by Mark K

I don't know guys, but my throttle response is immediate. Granted, I'm the one having a full control over which gear the car is in and at what rpm regime engine is running, but even on slow rolling in a second gear the throttle input is immediate. Even if engine takes a second to get to 1,300 rpm and then takes off full blast, it is pretty obvious that throttle input is there.

I'm curious to find out what experience with throttle input have F10 owners with MT, regardless of the engine.

Funny you ask. My car is at the dealer now where I complained about a delayed response when deciding to accelereate even when in high rpm. They don't see it. I am now searching this site to see if I can find a service bulletin. I can only find one for the automatics (8hp45 transmissions).

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

The 8 speed auto will be VERY conservative if you generally drive around slowly, as I must living where I live and driving in the traffic that I do. Driving every day, you don't really notice it, but the car likes to loaf around at about 1,100 RPM. And it doesn't like to downshift. You really need to get on it in order to downshift, and then it's a 2-3 gear downshift instead of a more gentle one gear downshift. It's very annoying.

It's still true in the 2013 528ix, I'm afraid - but I've found a way to make it downshift by just 1 gear rather than 2-3: a shallow (i.e. not flooring) and very quick depress on the gas pedal, followed by equally quick partial release.

Just try it!