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  #1  
Old 08-02-2013, 12:30 PM
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Chinese fur farms - no regulations?

Doing the rounds on facebook is a very disturbing video about horrendous practices within the Chinese fur farms - in many the animals are not even dead before their skins and fur are removed .. this is beyond barbaric and I won't post the video here, as it is extremely graphic - now this is a PETA video - and whether you agree with PETA as an organization or not, I think most sensible people would suggest that an animal harvested for it's fur should be killed humanely before removing the fur...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=511342652266474


Posting the HTTPS link so it won't bring the image/video into the bimmerfest site - watch at your own risk - this is pretty disgusting imagery.
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2013, 01:39 PM
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How could anybody work there and still sleep at night?
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  #3  
Old 08-02-2013, 02:09 PM
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Well, it is China.

China is just not one of the Western countries.
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post
Well, it is China.

China is just not one of the Western countries.
While I understand the sentiment, I think it is no explanation. They are still people. That is, the people working there are still people, supposedly like you and me. This has nothing to do with government.

The question how these people can sleep at night remains, and I haven't even watched the video, the description provided is enough.
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:54 PM
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While I understand the sentiment, I think it is no explanation. They are still people. That is, the people working there are still people, supposedly like you and me. This has nothing to do with government.

The question how these people can sleep at night remains, and I haven't even watched the video, the description provided is enough.
The people are people, and the animals are not people. Once you stop anthropomorphizing the animals, sleep would come easy. I'm not a vegan and never will be.
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:10 PM
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Chinese fur farms - no regulations?

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The people are people, and the animals are not people. Once you stop anthropomorphizing the animals, sleep would come easy. I'm not a vegan and never will be.
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  #7  
Old 08-02-2013, 04:53 PM
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Did you two watch the video? What they are doing to those animals is beyond sickening IMO
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  #8  
Old 08-02-2013, 04:57 PM
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Fwiw - i could never be vegan - but I can't imagine harvesting animal parts like their skins while they are still alive - that is subhuman behavior IMO
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:52 PM
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Did you two watch the video? What they are doing to those animals is beyond sickening IMO
I didn't watch it straight through, but I did click around and watched the scene where they electrocuted one of the animals. Not much different that seeing the head cut off a chicken or killed a fish before dinner.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:09 PM
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It is illegal in the US to film slaughterhouse activity.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:31 PM
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I am not an animal person, nor am I a Vegan, But if you watch that video, you cant just brush it off by saying people are people and animals are just animals. I can see shooting the animal or a nice easy injection to put it to sleep. Hell, Lions and tigers have the decency to go for the neck. Quick and clean, their prey barely suffers, and they never get pounced on again. But one animal was still moving around without any skin. Like, zero skin at all, and still alive. This is sick. And honestly, I think you may have problems if you can just brush this off as animals are just animals. But im not the judge.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:38 PM
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It is illegal in the US to film slaughterhouse activity.
As a very old saying goes, you really don't want to see sausage made.

When you grow up in a rural area and see your dinner still walking around in the morning, you get perspective on the circle of life.
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  #13  
Old 08-02-2013, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cwsqbm View Post
As a very old saying goes, you really don't want to see sausage made.

When you grow up in a rural area and see your dinner still walking around in the morning, you get perspective on the circle of life.
I grew up in rural England - we had cattle, ducks, chickens when I was child - a school friends family raised pigs and are still some of the biggest ham manufacturers in the county - I shot pigeon and rabbit as a teen with bb and shotguns and we ate them - I've been to slaughter houses plenty of times - and trust me - they don't skin animals when they are still alive and throw them in piles to die.

Watch the whole video - if you haven't seen the section I'm referring to - that's the ONLY way I can see you brushing this sh1t off - go watch it ALL - it won't take long... and if you can still brush this off as "just animals" - please let me know...
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ///Mariani View Post
I am not an animal person, nor am I a Vegan, But if you watch that video, you cant just brush it off by saying people are people and animals are just animals. I can see shooting the animal or a nice easy injection to put it to sleep. Hell, Lions and tigers have the decency to go for the neck. Quick and clean, their prey barely suffers, and they never get pounced on again. But one animal was still moving around without any skin. Like, zero skin at all, and still alive. This is sick. And honestly, I think you may have problems if you can just brush this off as animals are just animals. But im not the judge.
he said he never watched it all - and that makes sense - he needs to see the video in it's entirety I think.
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  #15  
Old 08-02-2013, 09:38 PM
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Chinese fur farms - no regulations?

The reality is that this probably happens in 1 out of 100 slaughterhouses...

I've got my own problems... #thestruggle

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  #16  
Old 08-02-2013, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cwsqbm View Post
The people are people, and the animals are not people. Once you stop anthropomorphizing the animals, sleep would come easy. I'm not a vegan and never will be.
Do you have a dog or cat?

Would it disturb you to see it flayed while still alive?

Anthropomorphize that.

could you flay one of those animals?

It is not a choice between eating or not eating meat.

Animals suffer. Humans are not the only beings which suffer.

They have nerve endings, experience pain, fear, pleasure, and happiness.

One does not have to be human to experience those things.

They are not inanimate objects.

One does not have to think of them as equal to humans to care about their suffering nor does one have to choose to become vegan if one is able to admit they suffer or care if they do.
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  #17  
Old 08-02-2013, 09:49 PM
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It is illegal in the US to film slaughterhouse activity.
In certain states.

I made a thread on it in PS.
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  #18  
Old 08-02-2013, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cwsqbm View Post
As a very old saying goes, you really don't want to see sausage made.

When you grow up in a rural area and see your dinner still walking around in the morning, you get perspective on the circle of life.
that saying exists because you don't want to know what kinds of disgusting things go into the sausage - not because of how the animal was killed.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:46 PM
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Re: Chinese fur farms - no regulations?

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Originally Posted by wyb View Post
Did you two watch the video? What they are doing to those animals is beyond sickening IMO
I must agree, that is beyond sickening. I have seen some pretty sickening stuff out here in Asia myself.

A lot of things in Asia can be pretty disturbing to watch or hear about. Check out some of their sex activities in Japan and you will find those disturbing too

You have similar if not worse stuff being done to humans in Syria these days too. That is just as disturbing if not worse or similar.

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Old 08-03-2013, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by cwinter View Post
While I understand the sentiment, I think it is no explanation. They are still people. That is, the people working there are still people, supposedly like you and me. This has nothing to do with government.

The question how these people can sleep at night remains, and I haven't even watched the video, the description provided is enough.
I was not talking governments, I was talking about culture and their history.

Our values, here in the West, are not necessarily the values of the East. I am not saying that I know what they are over there, only that I know they have a different culture.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:47 AM
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The reality is that this probably happens in 1 out of 100 slaughterhouses...

I've got my own problems... #thestruggle

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you do?

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Old 08-03-2013, 09:25 AM
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Well, it is China.

China is just not one of the Western countries.

would you care to elaborate?

would you buy chinese sourced fur-trimmed garments based on the video you (I hope) watched in the link I posted?
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:27 AM
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I must agree, that is beyond sickening. I have seen some pretty sickening stuff out here in Asia myself.

A lot of things in Asia can be pretty disturbing to watch or hear about. Check out some of their sex activities in Japan and you will find those disturbing too

You have similar if not worse stuff being done to humans in Syria these days too. That is just as disturbing if not worse or similar.

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and I would condemn those acts as well - it doesn't matter whether the suffering being inflicted is human or animal - those inflicting it have severe issues imo - that this is being done in the name of 'fashion' and that they routinely skin these animals alive is cause for more than a little concern - of course, I've been against buying chinese goods for as long as I can remember - and it's more and more difficult to avoid - but anyone that can get this message that Chinese fur and fur-trimmed items are supporting this kind of sub-human activity is a good thing - I and hope that this type of practice is not all fur-farms in china - I hope that only a few are this barbaric.


I want to address the meat is murder, and if you eat meat you're a murderer mentality -

Folks who paid attention to my posts may even remember that I said I was going to "hunt" a bison this year - trust me - I'm not opposed to meat - or animals being taken when they are to be used for food and their bodies being used to sustain us - I plan on doing just that - I'm not going to hunt a "trophy" - I'm deliberately planning this and buying the weapon and developing the cartridge load to take this animal in a single shot - 2nd shot if I happen to miss the heart - this is being planned with some pretty meticulous details - I have no intention of this animal running around pumping adrenaline into the meat - the purpose is to obtain the best possible bison meat and I'll end up with a rug as well - and lots of by-product which I will find some who can make use of it - animals should not be treated as fur and garbage... anyone who has this kind of mentality has some issues I feel.

US slaughterhouses are not all going to be perfect - we know that - but the FDA and other govt. departments regulate these things so that we can know that our food isn't raised and treated inhumanely - we're a society that eats meat and we don't expect to eat meat without animal deaths being a consequence. That we as a society have laws and regulation is different from other parts of the world - and I would hope that most 1st worlders would appreciate that those are put in place for everyones good.

That said - there are exceptions - Halal meat that is culled according to the "zabihah" - the animal is bled and I find it borderline - their religion calls for similar slaughter to Kosher Shechita - the fact that this is INTENDED to cause immediately unconsciousness should be somewhat reassuring to most of 1st world sensibilities I think.

But in almost every 1st world country have many Jewish and Muslim citizens among us - this means there are kosher + halal butchers doing this in our midst every day... at least the intent of cutting the animal's throat is to cause immediate and rapid drop of blood flow to the brain and hence an immediate unconsciousness - debate has raged for decades as to whether western style bolt-guns vs Zabihah and kosher slaughter methods are more humane - and the jury is probably still out on that - but one thing is pretty sure - the intent of each of these slaughter methods is NOT to cause immense pain and suffering to an animal... the practices in the video I posted are diametrically opposed to that - in-so-much as they appear to have no regard for the animal or suffering at all - they are PURELY a way of removing the pelt as quickly and as intact as possible.

I have never owned fur - but I have nothing against say, Alaskans and other natives taking animals for food and fur - their heritage honors the animals they cull and/or hunt for the life-sustaining meat, bone and fur - I have nothing against raising animals for fur if they are stunned and killed in a HUMANE manner, or killed instantly (as in a slaughterhouse bolt-gun) - but for the love of god - stunning an animal and then removing it's pelt for it to wake up and die in the most agonizing manner possible is something I could never condone - and it is interesting that a few people (2 or 3 perhaps) have the attitude that their 1st world issues are more important than condemning a barbaric practice... it speaks volumes about the individuals imo.
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  #24  
Old 08-03-2013, 09:30 AM
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Chinese fur farms - no regulations?

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Originally Posted by wyb View Post
you do?



gtfo and grow some common sense ...
I LOLd. So mad...


On a more serious note relating to the topic, I actually agree with the majority of the people here. These incidents, while they MAY be isolated, are absolutely inhumane and should be stopped. With that being said, it's almost impossible to do so because we simply don't have the money for inspectors anymore. An old teacher of mine who used to work in a slaughterhouse specific to cattle (He was a weird dude.) told us that the FDA and the department of health( I don't know the name lol) visits became less and less frequent because the funding was cut. He also said that the inspectors would come out wearing masks, looking sick to their stomach. They would walk around for 4 or 5 minutes and leave, because they were unable to handle it.

In short, it'd be great if we stopped this kind of behavior and put animals down in a more humane way, but it simply isn't a hot issue right now so it's going to be overlooked.


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Last edited by Keepittrill; 08-03-2013 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:31 AM
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Chinese fur farms - no regulations?

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