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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 08-17-2012, 11:18 PM
bt1337 bt1337 is offline
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Price expectation?

I'm trying to get myself ready for a 328i test drive at the dealership and I don't want to go empty handed as I'm pretty sure they will want to start haggling right there and then. I want to be sure to remain on top of things so I can just walk away if they don't have a good deal. I set up a configuration at BmwConfig.com and here is the link:

http://www.BmwConfig.com/BmwConfig/C...e-713ef5592240

Total invoice is $40,365 and that includes destination & handling as well as some junk fee called training fee. There might be a MACO fee as well.

Now I have 2 questions:

- Is the BmwConfig bottom line of $40,365 considered the "invoice" price or should I subtract all the fees to get the invoice price in an "invoice + $$$" deal?

- I often hear on this forum that a fair deal is invoice + $500. So would that be $40,365 + $500?

- Is the $500 figure realistic for my configuration these days or should I expect to pay more since the new 2013 model came out this summer?

And bonus question for my fellow Philadelphians, what's a good dealer in the area willing to work on an invoice + $$$ deal? I suspect the Main Line stealerships are too accustomed to the desperate trophy wives to bother with a low-baller. Are the other dealers worth it or should I drive to Delaware or NJ?

Last edited by bt1337; 08-17-2012 at 11:23 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-17-2012, 11:48 PM
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voip-ninja voip-ninja is offline
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The first thing you should do is a search plus a visit to the "ask a dealer" forum, as that's the most appropriate place to ask about pricing.

All they are building is 2013s now, so unless you can find an already built 2012 that meets your requirements then a 2013 is what you will be getting (and if you order now you will get it typically in about 6-8 weeks). $500 over invoice is a good price if you are in an area of the US with a lot of competition between dealers and there are other factors that affect how good of a deal you got such as any financing, the value of your trade-in, dealer service, etc. If you were able to get a 2012 then the deals should be better, as 2012 had a lower base price and dealers should be motivated to move them out... there could be finance/lease promotions on 2012s also.

Personally I find that people are a little too hung up on the $500 over invoice thing. There was a guy who posted a thread a week or so ago about how he got a $500 over invoice deal and then proceeded to relate how he got fleeced on extended warranties, tire damage insurance, etc. The selling price of the car is only part of the equation. Without a doubt if you are patient, willing to negotiate with many dealers, including ones that are far outside of your normal area, then $500 over invoice out the door should be possible.

I don't ever do a test drive and expect to "haggle". I do a test drive to evaluate the car, tell the dealer I'm driving all of the competition and that I will be back. At that point if you really want a 328i then you could open negotiations with as many dealers within your area as you are comfortable dealing with.

And yes, dealer training fees and advertising fees are usually legitimate, although dealer "paper" fees are not.
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Last edited by voip-ninja; 08-17-2012 at 11:51 PM.
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  #3  
Old 08-17-2012, 11:57 PM
VLing VLing is offline
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Dealer Invoice

The best price is the lowest price you can possible get to dealer to settle on, slightly over his cost. The dealer invoice price is not necessarily his cost for a MY2012 vehicle, since they are trying to right now unload inventory to start receiving 2013.

The OEM (BMW) may be offering dealer incentives to clear 2012 inventory. So the best deals right now are 2012 in dealer stock. You might even get one of below dealer invoice.

If you prefer a 2013 then you might have to order one and wait 8-10 weeks; unless the dealer in the next few weeks receives a 2013 vehicle that meets your exact configuration.
For the 2013 models a 500-1000 dollars over dealer invoice, would be a good deal in my opinion.

I believe the F30 MSRP is 7% over dealer invoice when I did the calculation recently. Check Edmunds or Dealer.com to see dealer invoice. So if a dealer profit margin is 7% on a car with no OEM incentive (none for 2013 right now) then a MSRP less 5-6 percent would be a good price and still give the dealer a profit to move the vehicle.

The best time to buy is at the end of the sales month. When the sales department has sales goal to meet; which are based on the number of unit sold they can get money back from the OEM I have negotiated very good deals at the end of the month for several purchases.

Good luck in finding a good deal...
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  #4  
Old 08-18-2012, 12:12 AM
doc_maverick doc_maverick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bt1337 View Post
I'm trying to get myself ready for a 328i test drive at the dealership and I don't want to go empty handed as I'm pretty sure they will want to start haggling right there and then. I want to be sure to remain on top of things so I can just walk away if they don't have a good deal. I set up a configuration at BmwConfig.com and here is the link:

http://www.BmwConfig.com/BmwConfig/C...e-713ef5592240

Total invoice is $40,365 and that includes destination & handling as well as some junk fee called training fee. There might be a MACO fee as well.

Now I have 2 questions:

- Is the BmwConfig bottom line of $40,365 considered the "invoice" price or should I subtract all the fees to get the invoice price in an "invoice + $$$" deal?

- I often hear on this forum that a fair deal is invoice + $500. So would that be $40,365 + $500?

- Is the $500 figure realistic for my configuration these days or should I expect to pay more since the new 2013 model came out this summer?

And bonus question for my fellow Philadelphians, what's a good dealer in the area willing to work on an invoice + $$$ deal? I suspect the Main Line stealerships are too accustomed to the desperate trophy wives to bother with a low-baller. Are the other dealers worth it or should I drive to Delaware or NJ?

Welcome to theforum fellow Philladelphian ! I just put in my orderfor a 335 which is a little more difficult to get an allocation number for , but still ended up getting a 335i for about 700 $ over invoice ...using my drive for team usa event voucher I was able to get the car for about 300 $ below invoice.I was able to get a very good price for trade in which is why I went with the deal. I absolutely agree with VOIP -NINJA that its the overall price that matters at the end. What sweetened the deal was an interest rate almost a percentage point below what BMW FS is offering.

As for the 328i push all you can, this is BMW's volume seller and dealers are more then willing to cut back.

I would avoid Devon hill motors and Otto's BMW , the CA never bothered to call back or email me afterI told them price I was expecting. West German BMW gave me the best price though it's in fort washington which is fairly far away from the city. I went with BMW of the mainline
for the overall deal and proximity to the mainline. Thomson is good too although never quite followed up with their best offer. A word of advice , just because a dealer is on the mainline doesnt mean he does not have sales targets. The spoilt brats of the mainline can only account for so much of the sales, they need customers to survive. If a dealer gets annoyed because of haggling it's time to move on. In this economy such behavior should not be tolerated.
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  #5  
Old 08-18-2012, 01:06 AM
bt1337 bt1337 is offline
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Thanks all but I'm still wondering what "invoice" should include. I just want to know as the fees are making a big difference.

I said $500 but it could be $750... $250 is nothing we're talking about a $40k+ car... But I still need to know what invoice means exactly.
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  #6  
Old 08-18-2012, 01:08 AM
bt1337 bt1337 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc_maverick View Post
I would avoid Devon hill motors and Otto's BMW , the CA never bothered to call back or email me afterI told them price I was expecting. West German BMW gave me the best price though it's in fort washington which is fairly far away from the city. I went with BMW of the mainline
for the overall deal and proximity to the mainline. Thomson is good too although never quite followed up with their best offer. A word of advice , just because a dealer is on the mainline doesnt mean he does not have sales targets. The spoilt brats of the mainline can only account for so much of the sales, they need customers to survive. If a dealer gets annoyed because of haggling it's time to move on. In this economy such behavior should not be tolerated.
Ok I have heard horror stories about Devon Hill and Otto's already so I may pass on them. Too bad it's so close to home. I don't mind going to Fort Washington. I was wondering if the place of purchase had any importance regarding service? Do I get better treatment when servicing the car where I purchased it (such as loaners during oil changed, etc...) or is it a toss?
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  #7  
Old 08-18-2012, 01:44 AM
VLing VLing is offline
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Invoice

Quote:
Originally Posted by bt1337 View Post
Thanks all but I'm still wondering what "invoice" should include. I just want to know as the fees are making a big difference.

I said $500 but it could be $750... $250 is nothing we're talking about a $40k+ car... But I still need to know what invoice means exactly.
I do not fully understand your questions. It may be just the need to define what you mean by the term "invoice".

These are the terms I am use to hearing:

MSRP = Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price
Dealer Invoice = Dealer cost what they pay wholesale to BMW
Sales Price = Customer price negotiated (usually somewhere between MSRP and Dealer Invoice)
Out the door price = Sale Price + doc fee + sales tax +DMV registration fees

Now what do you mean by invoice?
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  #8  
Old 08-18-2012, 02:05 AM
docloc docloc is offline
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Try Thompson BMW, gave me a good price and trade value.
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  #9  
Old 08-18-2012, 10:19 AM
bt1337 bt1337 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VLing View Post
I do not fully understand your questions. It may be just the need to define what you mean by the term "invoice".

These are the terms I am use to hearing:

MSRP = Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price
Dealer Invoice = Dealer cost what they pay wholesale to BMW
Sales Price = Customer price negotiated (usually somewhere between MSRP and Dealer Invoice)
Out the door price = Sale Price + doc fee + sales tax +DMV registration fees

Now what do you mean by invoice?
BMW Config gives you an invoice price in which for whatever reason they include destination & handling and training fee. I just want to know what a good starting point is when negotiating from invoice, as I often hear on this forum. Everybody says they got their car for invoice + xxx amount of $ but nobody defines what invoice means, whether it includes the D&H fees, the training fee, the MACO fee...

Sorry I guess my background in software engineering makes me want to define any and all variables or I just can't process the equation
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  #10  
Old 08-23-2012, 02:57 PM
BMWElliott BMWElliott is offline
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What the heck are training fees. I have never had any dealer add a training fee to a deal I ahve made.
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  #11  
Old 08-23-2012, 03:01 PM
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voip-ninja voip-ninja is offline
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http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260896
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  #12  
Old 08-23-2012, 04:35 PM
VLing VLing is offline
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Fees

I believe MACO is an acronym for Marketing & Advertising Co-Op (MACO). This type of fee in not unique to BMW dealer invoices; other OEMs have similar fees charged to dealer invoices. The fees ususally varies by OEM sales region from $0 to NNN (three digits). It covers the dealer's cost to market and advertise the brand in a specific region of the USA. That is why European Deliver of a BMW does not have a MACO fee.

I see this type of fee on dealer invoices for Toyota, Lexus, etc.; but they have a different acronym.
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  #13  
Old 08-23-2012, 04:44 PM
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328i2013 328i2013 is offline
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I got the lowest price (7% discount over msrp) by calling around and then getting the closest dealer to match the lowest offer. Just make one trip to any dealership to test drive. Then negotiate around over the phone or email. That saves the most time.
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