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BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #1  
Old 08-28-2012, 08:56 AM
Roman-dude Roman-dude is offline
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Do many of you have issues past the orig 50k miles?

Just trying to see how "necessary" it would be for the car to be a CPO. I generally scoff at the extended warranties, but am glad my 328xi is a CPO - they already replaced a sensor at ~75k (that would've run me ~$1,400) and just now (at ~83k) an oil gasket (would be $800, if hadn't been covered). Dealer prices, obviously. So with me hitting 100k and the end of the CPO warranty soon, I am starting to think if it's time to dump this one and move on to 335d. The question then is how often do they break past 50k.. often enough to have to limit my search to CPO's only or not often enough so that I could get it cheaper and risk it..
thx!
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  #2  
Old 08-28-2012, 08:59 AM
cssnms cssnms is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman-dude View Post
Just trying to see how "necessary" it would be for the car to be a CPO. I generally scoff at the extended warranties, but am glad my 328xi is a CPO - they already replaced a sensor at ~75k (that would've run me ~$1,400) and just now (at ~83k) an oil gasket (would be $800, if hadn't been covered). Dealer prices, obviously. So with me hitting 100k and the end of the CPO warranty soon, I am starting to think if it's time to dump this one and move on to 335d. The question then is how often do they break past 50k.. often enough to have to limit my search to CPO's only or not often enough so that I could get it cheaper and risk it..
thx!
I don't have an answer to your qestion regarding how often d's "break" after 50k, but I would recommend a CPO'd vehicle or at least buying one that is still under factory warraty and extending it before it expires.
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  #3  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:03 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman-dude View Post
Just trying to see how "necessary" it would be for the car to be a CPO. I generally scoff at the extended warranties, but am glad my 328xi is a CPO - they already replaced a sensor at ~75k (that would've run me ~$1,400) and just now (at ~83k) an oil gasket (would be $800, if hadn't been covered). Dealer prices, obviously. So with me hitting 100k and the end of the CPO warranty soon, I am starting to think if it's time to dump this one and move on to 335d. The question then is how often do they break past 50k.. often enough to have to limit my search to CPO's only or not often enough so that I could get it cheaper and risk it..
thx!
If those were the only two things to worry about prior to 100k miles then I'd question the value in paying a premium for a CPO or extended warranty. Since both probably could be done for much less at a non-dealer.
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  #4  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:56 AM
boooomer boooomer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
If those were the only two things to worry about prior to 100k miles then I'd question the value in paying a premium for a CPO or extended warranty. Since both probably could be done for much less at a non-dealer.
I think it comes down to what a CPO'd car will cost vs a non CPO'd car. If there was a way to put hard dollars on the actual cost of the CPO warranty then you could make an informed value judgement.
Keep in mind that the CPO warranty is much better than the best BMW Extended Warranty that you purchase from the dealer. The CPO warranty is essentially an extension of the new car bumper to bumper warranty with noted exceptions. The Extended Warranty is named coverage only and there's a lot of Diesel related stuff NOT named.
Also w/re to New Car Warranties, In any transaction purchasing a BMW (or Audi) with some new car warranty left, it's extremely important to know when the warranty actually ends & don't assume that it's 4 years after the original purchase date. It could be less.
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  #5  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:03 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Honestly, I have a very hard time accepting that any car will have enough problems prior to 100k miles to justify paying much(if any) premium for a warranty extension. That is just me though and everyone has their own outlooks on things.
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  #6  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:12 PM
Roman-dude Roman-dude is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
Honestly, I have a very hard time accepting that any car will have enough problems prior to 100k miles to justify paying much(if any) premium for a warranty extension. That is just me though and everyone has their own outlooks on things.
Well, I was generally of the same mind. The reason I got this one as a CPO was that it was a really good deal all around and I don't feel that I paid much extra for that. I am pretty happy now that I did though. But my question really is whether it was just me who got unlucky with the fact that those things broke (and a motor mount too, but that was under 50k) or if that's a genuine reliability issue with many bimmers. Depending on how common such things are (and hopefully current owners are the best to answer that) I'll make a call on whether to pay a CPO premium (obviously depending on how big it'd be) or not. What adds to the issue here is that there really aren't that many 335d's out there..
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  #7  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:22 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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I do not see a sensor and a gasket as any level of unreliability. Sensors are just plain dumb luck more times than not, I do question how a sensor ends up costing $1400 though because that price implies to me more than a sensor. I do not know on the gasket, that seems odd to me to have gone out but would guess being up north that your environment is harsher on things. When I have shopped CPO v. non-CPO cars in the past there was always at least a $2k difference in cost and usually a lot more than that. I suppose the only reason I personally would like to have the extra warranty is if I was making payments on the car while still in that period of usage.

The things that I'd maybe find concerning about the 335d is the repairs some have posted up on here about having to get done. The primary one being the people who had to have the top ends of their motors replaced. But if I were to get too worried about those then I'd probably not even buy the model car.

I routinely look on things like autotrader to get an idea of what my 335d might be worth and there always seems to be a fair number of the cars for sale. I do not think they are hard to come by at all if willing to expand ones search outside their immediate driving range. Guys on here have said via cars.com they even have found some new ones still collecting dust on lots.
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  #8  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:32 PM
Roman-dude Roman-dude is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
I do not see a sensor and a gasket as any level of unreliability. Sensors are just plain dumb luck more times than not, I do question how a sensor ends up costing $1400 though because that price implies to me more than a sensor. I do not know on the gasket, that seems odd to me to have gone out but would guess being up north that your environment is harsher on things.
Ok, dumb luck is a good info, that implies it's not common. As for the prices, maybe one needs to divide them by a factor of 3 or more to get the real price, hell, they wanted me to pay $190 for an air filter change...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
When I have shopped CPO v. non-CPO cars in the past there was always at least a $2k difference in cost and usually a lot more than that. I suppose the only reason I personally would like to have the extra warranty is if I was making payments on the car while still in that period of usage.
I am fairly certain my premium was under a grand, since i knew what this type of a car with that mileage should have cost me. I guess buying it on the last day in February during a snowstorm and being the only customer in the showroom helped. I def agree w/you and wouldn't pay anything near 2k for that.

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Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
I routinely look on things like autotrader to get an idea of what my 335d might be worth and there always seems to be a fair number of the cars for sale. I do not think they are hard to come by at all if willing to expand ones search outside their immediate driving range. Guys on here have said via cars.com they even have found some new ones still collecting dust on lots.
Thanks, I've looked, there're def some. I just meant that there are significantly less 335d's than 328's, that's all.
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  #9  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:40 PM
Roman-dude Roman-dude is offline
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I do not know on the gasket, that seems odd to me to have gone out but would guess being up north that your environment is harsher on things.
Had my receipt here, here's what it says: "T/S oil leaking from valve cover gasket. Tech installed new cylinder head cover"
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  #10  
Old 08-28-2012, 01:19 PM
BMWTurboDzl BMWTurboDzl is offline
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Originally Posted by Roman-dude View Post
Had my receipt here, here's what it says: "T/S oil leaking from valve cover gasket. Tech installed new cylinder head cover"
Fairly common on BMW's in general. Not sure about the M57 thouth
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  #11  
Old 08-28-2012, 02:25 PM
GreekboyD GreekboyD is offline
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Roman-dude, for me comes down to peace of mind. I bought my 2009 335d last year in August with only 3,800 kms (2,360 miles) on it. My warranty was up last month with my car at 19,500 kms (12,100 miles) yet I still bought the extended warranty package for it.

Last edited by GreekboyD; 08-28-2012 at 02:31 PM.
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  #12  
Old 08-28-2012, 03:38 PM
Roman-dude Roman-dude is offline
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Roman-dude, for me comes down to peace of mind. I bought my 2009 335d last year in August with only 3,800 kms (2,360 miles) on it. My warranty was up last month with my car at 19,500 kms (12,100 miles) yet I still bought the extended warranty package for it.
Got ya. Since I see you're up in Canada, how's winter driving for you there with the RWD?

thx
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  #13  
Old 08-28-2012, 05:51 PM
GreekboyD GreekboyD is offline
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Got ya. Since I see you're up in Canada, how's winter driving for you there with the RWD?

thx
I run MPSS in the summer and then throw on my MPA3 tires for the winter. Winter driving is all about being smart IMO and knowing the conditions. The 335d is well balanced with a 51/49 weight distribution too.

Toronto and Brooklyn winters would be pretty similar when it comes to winter/snow driving.

Last edited by GreekboyD; 08-28-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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  #14  
Old 08-28-2012, 08:53 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
Honestly, I have a very hard time accepting that any car will have enough problems prior to 100k miles to justify paying much(if any) premium for a warranty extension. That is just me though and everyone has their own outlooks on things.
Unfortunately, it is not uncommon for BMW's to have their auto transmissions fail prior to 100K. That is the primary reason I will consider an extended warranty on my X5.
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  #15  
Old 08-29-2012, 09:46 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Unfortunately, it is not uncommon for BMW's to have their auto transmissions fail prior to 100K. That is the primary reason I will consider an extended warranty on my X5.
Which is interesting since they do not appear to always use the same manufacturer for their transmissions.
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  #16  
Old 08-29-2012, 10:27 AM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Which is interesting since they do not appear to always use the same manufacturer for their transmissions.
I've only know them to use GM and ZF for automatic transmissions. But reliability is not only dependent up the manufacturing quality/source, it also depends upon the application selection, maintenance specifications, and other things, such as shift programs, that the buyer can define.

"Lifetime" transmission fluid, as specified by BMW, certainly does not add to the reliability of transmissions.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:47 AM
BMWTurboDzl BMWTurboDzl is offline
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Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
I've only know them to use GM and ZF for automatic transmissions. But reliability is not only dependent up the manufacturing quality/source, it also depends upon the application selection, maintenance specifications, and other things, such as shift programs, that the buyer can define.

"Lifetime" transmission fluid, as specified by BMW, certainly does not add to the reliability of transmissions.
ZF promotes 100k mile fills which is what BMW and all other manufacturers also promote when using the ZF trans. ZF also has a severe service interval of approx 60k miles.

BMW has been known to provide goodwill replacement of a transmission that is within a reasonable amount of miles past the factory warranty.

Sent from my MB525 using Bimmer App
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Old 08-29-2012, 01:37 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
BMW has been known to provide goodwill replacement of a transmission that is within a reasonable amount of miles past the factory warranty.

Confirming that they know there is a systemic problem, as out-of-warranty "goodwill" gestures are rather uncommon from BMW NA.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
ZF also has a severe service interval of approx 60k miles.

What does BMW specify as a severe service transmission interval?

Last edited by Penguin; 08-29-2012 at 01:38 PM.
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  #19  
Old 08-29-2012, 02:36 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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What does BMW specify as a severe service transmission interval?
In another thread I read something like 100k for that "lifetime fluid" and the person said the number came from BMW. In my real world experience with other brand vehicles though if I put off changing the transmission fluid to 100k or so then I end up with a transmission failure within 15k miles of changing it but if I leave it in there it tends to last much longer. My theory is if I change it more regular than 100k miles then it will last longer due to less chance of sludge getting in there. I am not practicing that theory with my 335d though, I do with my truck but then again the service interval for transmission fluid on it is I think 30k anyway.
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  #20  
Old 08-29-2012, 04:15 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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The 335d apparently has the same transmission as the larger engined 7 series cars, not the other 3 series model automatics. It may prove quite robust if taken care of.

My experience in other automatics is to change the fluid much earlier and always make sure it is to manufacturer spec but 100% synthetic. That way it doesn't break down under high stress/heat in the slipping interface mechanism of planetary gearbox (non direct shifting) automatics.

Some mechanics will check the fluid for contamination and color, for example. I've had automatics that have had their fluid "cooked" by 12,000 miles, black by 45,000 miles etc. so changing it early on a high performance car makes sense to me.

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Last edited by Pierre Louis; 08-29-2012 at 04:17 PM.
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  #21  
Old 08-29-2012, 05:20 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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The 335d apparently has the same transmission as the larger engined 7 series cars, not the other 3 series model automatics. It may prove quite robust if taken care of.
This is not correct. The 335d uses the same ZF 6HP26 that the 335i uses. However, it has a different torque converter with double lockup clutches due to the higher torque. (Reference: the ST180 or Advanced Diesel pdfs that have been posted here.)

Last edited by floydarogers; 08-29-2012 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 08-29-2012, 08:48 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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And which torque converter is used in the larger engined 7 series?
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  #23  
Old 08-29-2012, 09:52 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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And which torque converter is used in the larger engined 7 series?
Heck if I know.
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  #24  
Old 08-30-2012, 03:49 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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Heck if I know.
I didn't think so.

Here are some of the cars that use the ZF 6HP26: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_6HP26_transmission

Applications
6HP26

Ford has developed their own version based off this exact platform called the 6r60 and 6r80. Therefore certain Ford vehicles will not be listed.*

Two-wheel drive version:

2001–2008 BMW E65/E66 7 Series
2002–2008 Jaguar S-Type
2003–present Jaguar XJ
2003–present BMW E63/E64 6 Series
2003–present Range Rover
2003-2012 Rolls-Royce Phantom (2003)
2007-present Rolls-Royce Phantom Drophead Coupé
2004–2006 BMW E53 X5 V8
2003–present BMW E60 5 Series
2005–present BMW E90 3 Series
2005–present Land Rover Discovery
2005–present Ford Falcon (BF, FG)
2005–present Ford Territory (AWD Versions)
2005–2008 Lincoln Navigator
2006–present Range Rover Sport
2007–present BMW E70 X5
2003–present Jaguar XK8/XKR
2007–present Maserati Quattroporte
2008–present BMW F01/02 7 Series (except 760i/Li and Hybrid 7)
2008–2011 Kia Mohave
2009–present Hyundai Genesis V8 4.6L
2009–present Jaguar XF

6HP26A

Four-wheel drive version used in Audi, Volkswagen Passenger Cars and Bentley marques of the Volkswagen Group:

2002–present Volkswagen Phaeton (Typ 3D)
2003–2009 Audi A8 (D3, Typ 4E)
2003–present Bentley Continental GT
2005–present Bentley Continental Flying Spur
2006–present Audi S6 (C6, Typ 4F)
2008–2010 Audi RS6 (C6, Typ 4F)

Not exactly a list of small engined cars, eh? I guess the smaller engined E90 cars use a less robust transmission as stated but don't really have that information. The above is only an inclusive list, not one that lists all exclusions.

My point was that this transmission is robust and was even trolled to have had a more robust torque converter than other 3 series.

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Old 08-30-2012, 03:58 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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Here is an interesting and believable technical writeup:

http://www.furitech.com.au/index.php...-introduction/

Known Problems With BMW
As these are known to be a sealed transmission it is highly recommended to have these serviced. BMW's have had these since 2000 which means the transmission would have done may kms on the same oil. As oil does go off and add many years of wear and tear floating through the oil it all comes together to start causing issues with shifting etc. Getting in early with a service will help prolong the transmission so your not hit with a large rebuild cost.

Service Information
The 6HP26 requires a special oil from ZF there are some oil manufactures that claim there fluid will work however unless its documented that it will work its recommended to use ZF oil. Now vehicle manufactures claim that the transmission is a "fill for life" or "Sealed Gearbox" however with research we have done we have found that ZF claim the Lifeguard 6 fluid is rated to 62,000 miles. See below details

"ZF Lifeguard Fluid, a high-performance lubricant specially engineered by ZF, gives customers a perfectly matched product. The transmission fluid reduces material wear, vibrations and noise for smoother shifting, extended maintenance intervals (100,000 km/62,000 miles), and maximum fuel savings."

Transmission Rebuilders recommend servicing these transmissions every 60,000kms or 36 Months which every accrues first. It is also recommended on models with a one piece plastic sump to be converted with the more common steel sump with removable filter. The conversion cost about $70AUD more but then you will be saving $70 every service after that as you only need a filter and gasket rather than a complete sump.

Recommended Oil
ZF-LifeGuard Fluid 6
1 Litre (Part No: S671 090 255)
20 Litre (Part No: S671 090 253)
205 Litre (Part No: S671 090 252)

PL
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