Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts

BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 09-04-2012, 09:48 AM
minus13 minus13 is offline
Registered User
Location: South Carolina
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 42
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
You do know that, unless it's in sport mode, it starts in 2nd gear? That's the main reason for the lag; I believe that some tip-in is also included in the throttle logic so that you're not continually barking the tires.
Bingo... That second-gear start is likely to blame for the majority of complaints about lag from takeoff. But the purpose is to allow (or force) the torque converter to modulate the power to the rear wheels - presumably better than most would handle 425 lb/ft of torque in first gear.

Also, if you are mashing the pedal from a standing start, DSC is likely kicking in to stop the rear wheels from breaking loose. If you don't believe me, turn off DSC and go about your business. You'll learn a lot about what DSC does and doesn't do by driving with it off for a little while. Be careful, though - if you lose control, it'll only be you, the steering wheel, and the pedals that catch the vehicle. I'll admit that I struggled with this for a couple weeks after I first got my vehicle. The harder I would mash the pedal, the slower it seemed to go. Then I turned off DSC one day - good God, what a difference. Then I slapped a Quaife LSD in the rear end - absolutely sublime. Now, I instantly reach for the DSC button the moment I start the car. I only drive the 335d when it is dry, though - it's not like I am recommending driving without DSC in weather. To be honest, driving without DSC in any weather condition is probably a bad idea (for most).

Last edited by minus13; 09-04-2012 at 09:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-04-2012, 09:50 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Humble, Tx
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,032
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by minus13 View Post
Be careful, though - if you lose control, it'll only be you, the steering wheel, and the pedals that catch the vehicle.
Don't forget about ditches, they are good at catching things that are out of control
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-04-2012, 09:51 AM
minus13 minus13 is offline
Registered User
Location: South Carolina
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 42
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
Don't forget about ditches, they are good at catching things that are out of control
Ha!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-04-2012, 10:24 AM
ChasR ChasR is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 140
Mein Auto: 335d, E28 M5, Clubman S
Makes no difference if it is in D, DS, or manual, there is a 1 second lag between flooring it and an appropriate response from the car. I'm not talking about it merely accelerating slowly, it starts out about like a car in neutral rolling down a 5% incline after releasing the brake. I'll run it on my G-Meter to check the 0-10mph and 0-60 feet times which should give an idea how slow it goes, when compared to the times of some of my other cars and the one run I did torquing up the transmission in the d.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-04-2012, 10:27 AM
ChasR ChasR is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 140
Mein Auto: 335d, E28 M5, Clubman S
DSC/traction cannot be invoked accelerating in a straight line on dry pavement on my car without torquing up the transmission.

Last edited by ChasR; 09-04-2012 at 10:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 09-04-2012, 10:28 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Humble, Tx
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,032
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
Mine is instant in DS, well unless the traction control kicks in and that feels like the car nose dives when it gets mixed into things.
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-04-2012, 10:29 AM
minus13 minus13 is offline
Registered User
Location: South Carolina
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 42
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasR View Post
Makes no difference if it is in D, DS, or manual, there is a 1 second lag between flooring it and an appropriate response from the car. I'm not talking about it merely accelerating slowly, it starts out about like a car in neutral rolling down a 5% incline after releasing the brake. I'll run it on my G-Meter to check the 0-10mph and 0-60 feet times which should give an idea how slow it goes, when compared to the times of some of my other cars and the one run I did torquing up the transmission in the d.
You need to get your car fixed, then. My 335d is a rocket. I have to tippie-toe the throttle on standing starts where a left or right turn is required or the rear end slides out some.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09-04-2012, 10:32 AM
ChasR ChasR is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 140
Mein Auto: 335d, E28 M5, Clubman S
BTW, it is a pleasure to find such an active forum relating to the d.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09-04-2012, 11:21 AM
Axel61's Avatar
Axel61 Axel61 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Puerto Rico
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 912
Mein Auto: 335d
Yeah I learned the hard when I bought my "D", I did not realize the DSC controlled the car so strongly that I tried to pull out from a light to cross a road and the damn DSC kicked in boy i almost sheit myself the car went almost safe mode and almost got rammed luckily I was able to manage to get ahold of it and steer away promptly or otherwise I wont be writting to you guys today. I later discovered after say 7 months how to manage the DSC thanks to someone in one these forums, cant recall which one, and trust me when you have the DSC COMPLETELY OFF!!! this car is a MONSTER specially when its bench flashed as mines is with RENNtech and now with latest updated and upgraded flash TRUST ME you need to be carefull if your driving w/o DSC, like Minus13 stated above if your not ready the car will EAT you alive, so the point here is that if you decide to have your DSC OFF completely be CAREFULL, the car has its own mind, I strongly suggest you disconnect completely OFF when your alone or in a safe eviroment otherwise use the DSC as i do usually and only use it OFF when I want to merge into hwy or kick someones ARSE!! LOL, besides that keep a leash on my beast !!!
__________________
RENNtech Flash, WAGNER IC,Koni FSDs,Execuhitch,VMR710 19"
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-04-2012, 11:26 AM
cssnms cssnms is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Murland
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 715
Mein Auto: '11 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel61 View Post
I later discovered after say 7 months how to manage the DSC thanks to someone in one these forums, cant recall which one,
I will take the credit for keeping you alive.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-04-2012, 11:47 AM
Axel61's Avatar
Axel61 Axel61 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Puerto Rico
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 912
Mein Auto: 335d
Damn was it you LOL anyway thanks bud, now because of you I have to buy new rear tires LOL Im losing tread on them jajajajajjaja
__________________
RENNtech Flash, WAGNER IC,Koni FSDs,Execuhitch,VMR710 19"
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-04-2012, 12:19 PM
ChasR ChasR is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 140
Mein Auto: 335d, E28 M5, Clubman S
To check and see if my problem with the initial delay from a standing start is DSC related, I turned DSC completely off. Still won't spin a wheel on dry pavement. It creeps forward for a second then takes off. Now to get that G-Meter back from my youngest son.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09-04-2012, 12:22 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Humble, Tx
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,032
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasR View Post
To check and see if my problem with the initial delay from a standing start is DSC related, I turned DSC completely off. Still won't spin a wheel on dry pavement. It creeps forward for a second then takes off. Now to get that G-Meter back from my youngest son.
I think something is wrong with your car. Mine even at least chirps the tires with the DSC on and giving it too much throttle. My car I think acts like yours though if the engine has not warmed up. But to be honest I just don't give the car a ton of throttle from a dead stop to be certain any more. For all I know one of the updates done over the past couple years slowed mine down.
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09-04-2012, 12:34 PM
ChasR ChasR is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 140
Mein Auto: 335d, E28 M5, Clubman S
I'll give it another go at the dealership. The " they all do that" attitude despite admitting it's not right can be overcome. We may have to elevate this to BMW NA since there are no error codes thrown.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09-04-2012, 12:46 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Humble, Tx
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,032
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasR View Post
I'll give it another go at the dealership. The " they all do that" attitude despite admitting it's not right can be overcome. We may have to elevate this to BMW NA since there are no error codes thrown.
My experience with BMW NA is they will not do squat and just redirect you to the dealer. Personally what I'd do is ask the dealer if they have a 335d loaner car or check and see if any chance they have a 335d for sale on the lot. If they have one then I'd ask to be able to drive it and see if it mimmics yours. While your description does not sound at all like how a few of us feel our cars are it could still be some sort of difference in perceptions/descriptions too.
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 09-04-2012, 02:06 PM
ChasR ChasR is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 140
Mein Auto: 335d, E28 M5, Clubman S
I did drive another 335d and it did the same thing mine does, but I'll try to get hold of a another one just to be sure. THe director of fixed ops at the dealership has an x5d and he says his doesn't do it, so I'll either try to drive his or have him drive mine. I'm renovating the dealership and am there twice a week anyway, so I can bother them more than they'd like.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 09-04-2012, 02:54 PM
cssnms cssnms is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Murland
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 715
Mein Auto: '11 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasR View Post
Makes no difference if it is in D, DS, or manual, there is a 1 second lag between flooring it and an appropriate response from the car. I'm not talking about it merely accelerating slowly, it starts out about like a car in neutral rolling down a 5% incline after releasing the brake. I'll run it on my G-Meter to check the 0-10mph and 0-60 feet times which should give an idea how slow it goes, when compared to the times of some of my other cars and the one run I did torquing up the transmission in the d.
To be clear, are we talking about the turbo lag or just a lag in response between when you depress the accelorator and when you feel any forward movement?

My car has turbo lag when accelerating from a start, but that's normal in a turbo charged car. Naturally aspirated cars have almost isntant response with no lag feeling. The sensation I am describing can best be summerized as; when I depress the accelerator for a brief second the car will move forward without much gusto, then all of a sudden WHAM the turbo boost builds and causes the car to lurch forward.

Last edited by cssnms; 09-04-2012 at 02:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 09-04-2012, 03:31 PM
ChasR ChasR is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 140
Mein Auto: 335d, E28 M5, Clubman S
I will post my g-meter results and you can tell me whether it's turbo lag or not. Seat of the pants is it is the slowest car to 10 mph and perhaps 20 mph I've ever owned or driven unless you torque up the transmission. If turbo lag is the cause, it's one heck of a lot of turbo lag. All the reviews on the car talk about how little turbo lag there is in the 335d, and I don't notice lag of the turbo type to a disagreeable degree when rolling, but revs would be higher and the lag less. I also own a MINI clubman S, so this isn't my first turbo car. If I roll the MINI at idle and then floor it (it's a manual), it takes off. To me it feels like the throttle map is deliberatly slow or the torque converter isn't functioning correctly. The car is a 2011 with 45,000 miles.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 09-04-2012, 04:46 PM
cssnms cssnms is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Murland
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 715
Mein Auto: '11 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasR View Post
I will post my g-meter results and you can tell me whether it's turbo lag or not. Seat of the pants is it is the slowest car to 10 mph and perhaps 20 mph I've ever owned or driven unless you torque up the transmission. If turbo lag is the cause, it's one heck of a lot of turbo lag. All the reviews on the car talk about how little turbo lag there is in the 335d, and I don't notice lag of the turbo type to a disagreeable degree when rolling, but revs would be higher and the lag less. I also own a MINI clubman S, so this isn't my first turbo car. If I roll the MINI at idle and then floor it (it's a manual), it takes off. To me it feels like the throttle map is deliberatly slow or the torque converter isn't functioning correctly. The car is a 2011 with 45,000 miles.
Maybe something is wrong with your car because the 335d is by far from the slowest car 0-20 mph.

And for the record the Mini Cooper S is supercharged, not turbo charged, so maybe this is your first turbo charged car.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-04-2012, 05:08 PM
ChasR ChasR is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 140
Mein Auto: 335d, E28 M5, Clubman S
Sorry but the S models of the MINI have been TURBOcharged since 2007. I once had a 1979 Mustang that was also turbocharged, but it melted holes in the pistons within a month of purchase and ford swapped it for v-8 model. It was so bad I didn't count it.

Last edited by ChasR; 09-04-2012 at 05:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 09-04-2012, 05:42 PM
Axel61's Avatar
Axel61 Axel61 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Puerto Rico
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 912
Mein Auto: 335d
Correct 02/06 were supercharged i owned one for 9 years,chris u brainfarted lol
__________________
RENNtech Flash, WAGNER IC,Koni FSDs,Execuhitch,VMR710 19"
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-04-2012, 06:01 PM
cssnms cssnms is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Murland
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 715
Mein Auto: '11 335d
Ah well what the hell do I know...
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09-04-2012, 07:10 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Savannah
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 658
Mein Auto: 2011 335d Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasR View Post
I will post my g-meter results and you can tell me whether it's turbo lag or not. Seat of the pants is it is the slowest car to 10 mph and perhaps 20 mph I've ever owned or driven unless you torque up the transmission. If turbo lag is the cause, it's one heck of a lot of turbo lag. All the reviews on the car talk about how little turbo lag there is in the 335d, and I don't notice lag of the turbo type to a disagreeable degree when rolling, but revs would be higher and the lag less. I also own a MINI clubman S, so this isn't my first turbo car. If I roll the MINI at idle and then floor it (it's a manual), it takes off. To me it feels like the throttle map is deliberatly slow or the torque converter isn't functioning correctly. The car is a 2011 with 45,000 miles.
I do remember reading a post about someone with a true defect in their 335d where the small turbo, the one that starts off at low RPM had a problem, and that slow startup was the only complaint.

I did try mine and found a difference between my daughter's Honda Civic and the 335d: the Honda has instant throttle response with significant "tip-in" dialed in (extra cam action at the start of the throttle - meaning its not linear but biased at the beginning for more power) while the d has a split second delay as do all diesel cars due to what I stated in a previous post: diesels don't have a "squirt of fuel" to rev the engine but a combination of more air and different timing of fuel/air/compression - all controlled by the throttle/computer/fuel injector mechanisms. Remember, its a "compression-ignition engine."

I'm so used to the "normal" diesel split-second delay in throttle when I drive, its second nature to me now but to someone who has never driven an oil burner, it may take a little getting used to. But it should not cause that much of a complaint because, especially the 335d, the power that comes in causes too much of a "wow" factor IMO.

So try to search the forums for the specific small turbo question which was initially not detected by the dealer. It may be your answer.

PL
__________________
Rose Castorini: I just want you to know no matter what you do, you're gonna die, just like everybody else.
Cosmo Castorini: Thank you, Rose. - Moonstruck

Last edited by Pierre Louis; 09-04-2012 at 07:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 09-04-2012, 07:30 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Humble, Tx
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,032
Mein Auto: 2009 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post

I'm so used to the "normal" diesel split-second delay in throttle when I drive, its second nature to me now but to someone who has never driven an oil burner, it may take a little getting used to. But it should not cause that much of a complaint because, especially the 335d, the power that comes in causes too much of a "wow" factor IMO.
I do not feel the one in the 335d is normal but more exaggerated. Perhaps I think that because as a user stated earlier and I did not know this but the car starts off in 2nd gear when in D. I do know it sure is a lot less noticeable when in DS but I always figured that was programming differences in regards to the throttle tip in.
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 09-04-2012, 08:35 PM
OILPowered OILPowered is offline
Registered User
Location: Orange County, CA
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 44
Mein Auto: '11 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
I do remember reading a post about someone with a true defect in their 335d where the small turbo, the one that starts off at low RPM had a problem, and that slow startup was the only complaint.

I did try mine and found a difference between my daughter's Honda Civic and the 335d: the Honda has instant throttle response with significant "tip-in" dialed in (extra cam action at the start of the throttle - meaning its not linear but biased at the beginning for more power) while the d has a split second delay as do all diesel cars due to what I stated in a previous post: diesels don't have a "squirt of fuel" to rev the engine but a combination of more air and different timing of fuel/air/compression - all controlled by the throttle/computer/fuel injector mechanisms. Remember, its a "compression-ignition engine."

I'm so used to the "normal" diesel split-second delay in throttle when I drive, its second nature to me now but to someone who has never driven an oil burner, it may take a little getting used to. But it should not cause that much of a complaint because, especially the 335d, the power that comes in causes too much of a "wow" factor IMO.

So try to search the forums for the specific small turbo question which was initially not detected by the dealer. It may be your answer.

PL
I agree: sounds like a turbo issue. The delay you describe is not how the car was intended to run.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms