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  #1  
Old 09-04-2012, 11:30 AM
fq fq is offline
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Dismal 3er Sales

The sales numbers for the 3er in August were among the lowest I have seen in years. Is it really a supply issue, or has the market been lukewarm to the redesign? Now, all other series' sales (other than the X's) were also pretty low which could be attributed to model year changeover/lack of inventory. However, the 3er (sedan at least) is a new model and should be firing on all cylinders.
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  #2  
Old 09-04-2012, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by fq View Post
The sales numbers for the 3er in August were among the lowest I have seen in years. Is it really a supply issue, or has the market been lukewarm to the redesign? Now, all other series' sales (other than the X's) were also pretty low which could be attributed to model year changeover/lack of inventory. However, the 3er (sedan at least) is a new model and should be firing on all cylinders.
Probably because most of the dealer inventory are short 2 cylinders.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:41 PM
Face128i Face128i is offline
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I shopped the new 3, didn't really care for it. The front end is very polarizing, didn't care for price (primarily options restrictions). Ended up buying a CPO 2011 model instead.

Was really hoping I'd like it, but was just too much money for a four cylinder with the options I wanted.
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:44 PM
schnell525 schnell525 is offline
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I don't think it's a bad car, but it gets expensive very, very quickly. i think it looks pretty good.

i have to say it, i remember my parents looking at fairly loaded new 300E in 1990 and it's sticker was 38,xxx. that car was a tank. but alas, that when a benz was a benz.

3's are getting really expensive. i'd consider an A4, but they certainly won't lease as well as a 3. i know the lack of xdrive, especially with people coming off of lease close to xdrive release has had to have an impact.

in snow country, RWD sucks. i don't care how many traction control gizmos and snows you put on, it's not awd.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:07 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Originally Posted by hugh1850 View Post
Probably because most of the dealer inventory are short 2 cylinders.
Can you explain further? So people are ordering 335i's and there isn't enough supply? Or they are buying Infinitis and Lexuses instead?

Entry level Audi and Benz's both are 4 cylinder cars, so I don't think the issue is due to a 4 vs 6 issue.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
Can you explain further? So people are ordering 335i's and there isn't enough supply? Or they are buying Infinitis and Lexuses instead?

Entry level Audi and Benz's both are 4 cylinder cars, so I don't think the issue is due to a 4 vs 6 issue.
It's a joke.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:41 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Originally Posted by hugh1850 View Post
It's a joke.
Believe it or not, there are folks out there who unjokingly believe that BMW is losing significant sales, significant being percentage points and not individaul units, because of the 4 vs 6 issue.

I'm not one of them - but I'll keep an open mind to hard evidence to the contrary.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
Believe it or not, there are folks out there who unjokingly believe that BMW is losing significant sales, significant being percentage points and not individaul units, because of the 4 vs 6 issue.

I'm not one of them - but I'll keep an open mind to hard evidence to the contrary.
I'll be honest...it will be a cold day in hell when I buy a 4 cyl...unless its strapped to a Lotus.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:55 PM
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I have to agree with hugh 1850, I am just not interested in a 4 cyl. car. It is too much money to spend for that. I have driven an F30 328 and I like it better than the E9x 328. To me it felt like it was keeping up with what I wanted in terms of power, but it was pushing it self to the limit to do so. Like a runner who is sprinting and hyperventolating (at the same time) to try to keep up. The 335 power delivery feels like there is more where that came from and all you need in reserve. I'm sure it will work for many people, I just don't like it enough to spend my money on it. N4S
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:08 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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That just means you buy a 335i. It doesn't mean you don't buy a 3 series. I think the official line is supply constraints, and lack of AWD for the F30.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
That just means you buy a 335i. It doesn't mean you don't buy a 3 series. I think the official line is supply constraints, and lack of AWD for the F30.
Anyone know the production numbers of 328 vs 335? I would suspect that the 328 makes up a larger percentage of 3 series made. Also, no new coupe - that has to be affecting sales with a pending redesign.

As for 4 cylinders... If i wanted a 4 cylinder - I would buy a Honda - they have more experience with 4 bangers anyway.

Hopefully they will continue to improve the sixes.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:41 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Hopefully they will continue to improve the sixes.
Obviously they will - why wouldn't they? They have so many vehicles and suvs using 6 cylinders, petrol and diesel, I doubt they would say they are done with development.
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Last edited by chrischeung; 09-06-2012 at 02:42 PM.
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  #13  
Old 09-06-2012, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
That just means you buy a 335i. It doesn't mean you don't buy a 3 series. I think the official line is supply constraints, and lack of AWD for the F30.
A 335i means a 3 series that costs $4k to $5k more. If 328i is too expensive already...
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:24 PM
mr29 mr29 is offline
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Originally Posted by Face128i View Post
I shopped the new 3, didn't really care for it. The front end is very polarizing, didn't care for price (primarily options restrictions). Ended up buying a CPO 2011 model instead.

Was really hoping I'd like it, but was just too much money for a four cylinder with the options I wanted.
yea same thing here for the price you might as well go for the other models and the look was meh
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
Anyone know the production numbers of 328 vs 335? I would suspect that the 328 makes up a larger percentage of 3 series made. Also, no new coupe - that has to be affecting sales with a pending redesign.

As for 4 cylinders... If i wanted a 4 cylinder - I would buy a Honda - they have more experience with 4 bangers anyway.

Hopefully they will continue to improve the sixes.
As I understand it it is 80% 328 and 20% 335. N4S
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:17 PM
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Obviously they will - why wouldn't they? They have so many vehicles and suvs using 6 cylinders, petrol and diesel, I doubt they would say they are done with development.

Agreed, but will they eventually go to only 4 bangers in the smaller cars (1s and 3s)...???

We are already seeing signs of other makes doing away with 8's and offering only sixes and 4s... is it so hard to imagine the day will come when only 4s are available in the smaller cars?

i certainly hope i am long gone when that happens but with the feds cracking down on fuel economy its only a matter of time.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:08 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Agreed, but will they eventually go to only 4 bangers in the smaller cars (1s and 3s)...???
And will gas/oil eventually run out? There won't be any car that can run. I honestly think you're worrying too much about if's and when's.

As long as BMW is making a 6 cyl motor, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't put it in a 3 series. After all, they put all the development into the motor - how much extra is it to install it into another car? Now whether the public will pay that price is another matter, if gas gets expensive due to scarcity, say $20+/gallon.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:02 AM
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And will gas/oil eventually run out? There won't be any car that can run. I honestly think you're worrying too much about if's and when's.

As long as BMW is making a 6 cyl motor, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't put it in a 3 series. After all, they put all the development into the motor - how much extra is it to install it into another car? Now whether the public will pay that price is another matter, if gas gets expensive due to scarcity, say $20+/gallon.
There is an enormous amount of pressure for makers to have lineups that average the government required MPG on future models. In order to average out the V8s, they will have to bring up the MPG on the lower end models. I am not saying over night - I am just saying its not only a possibility but a probability - only time will tell.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:05 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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You're neglecting the Mini cars and also the "i" cars that are coming along. I'm sure BMW is a forward thinking as any other manufacturer.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:36 PM
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You're neglecting the Mini cars and also the "i" cars that are coming along. I'm sure BMW is a forward thinking as any other manufacturer.
Agreed, and the future is electric and 4 cylinders and hybrids. I am with you though... I hope you are right and I am wrong. In this case nothing would make me happier :-)
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:48 AM
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Agreed, and the future is electric and 4 cylinders and hybrids. I am with you though... I hope you are right and I am wrong. In this case nothing would make me happier :-)
You may be right (god I hope not) but cafe is an average, so for every x amount of 4 cyl. or hybrids you sell you can sell y amount of powerful gas guzzling cars. Of course that y car will cost big $. Also some small producers may not sell enough cars to fall under the new regs. I really don't know about the latest round of 54 mpg, but the one before that Porsche was excluded from the cafe. Any one know if they are excluded again? N4S
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
Anyone know the production numbers of 328 vs 335? I would suspect that the 328 makes up a larger percentage of 3 series made. Also, no new coupe - that has to be affecting sales with a pending redesign.

As for 4 cylinders... If i wanted a 4 cylinder - I would buy a Honda - they have more experience with 4 bangers anyway.

Hopefully they will continue to improve the sixes.
Um...while I am not a fan of the N20... BMW has decades of experience with 4 bangers. The US market is the only one where they stopped selling 4s for a period (and then only 2 generations pf 3).
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:57 PM
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Yes, but I think its safe that Honda has mastered the 4 banger. I would buy a Japanese 4 banger, a german one... not so much. Maybe my perception is incorrect but I can tell you it is a shared delusion.
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by need4speed View Post
You may be right (god I hope not) but cafe is an average, so for every x amount of 4 cyl. or hybrids you sell you can sell y amount of powerful gas guzzling cars. Of course that y car will cost big $. Also some small producers may not sell enough cars to fall under the new regs. I really don't know about the latest round of 54 mpg, but the one before that Porsche was excluded from the cafe. Any one know if they are excluded again? N4S
54 CAFE = about 40 mpg real combined mileage.

Also, hybrids and electrics count for more than one car. So if you sell X number of hybrids it's a multiplier that really counts for Y number of cars.

Finally, there are cars today that beat the 54 CAFE (again, not the same as EPA MPGs). While they're not insanely awesome yet they're better than the last gen. Think about the F30 6/MT 328i getting to a combined 26 MPG - that's an 18% jump from the 2011 e90 328i 6MT's 22 MPG combined. They did that just by going start stop, keep weight in place, changing gearing, going to the N20 and few other tricks. I have a 2013 328i and right now in mixed driving I'm getting... 26 MPG.

The diesel F30s in Europe are clocking well in excess of 30 MPG combined right now. BMW plans to finally bring the turbo diesel 4 here and they'll probably put it in the F10, F30, etc. Imagine an X3 that finally gets over 30 MPG on the freeway?

Last edited by brkf; 09-10-2012 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 09-10-2012, 03:01 PM
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54 CAFE = about 40 mpg real combined mileage.

Also, hybrids and electrics count for more than one car. So if you sell X number of hybrids it's a multiplier that really counts for Y number of cars.

Finally, there are cars today that beat the 54 CAFE (again, not the same as EPA MPGs). While they're not insanely awesome yet, yet they're better than the last gen. Think about the F30 6/MT 328i getting to a combined 26 MPG - that's an 18% jump from the 2011 e90 328i 6MT's 22 MPG combined. They did that just by going start stop, keep weight in place, changing gearing, going to the N20 and few other tricks. I have a 2013 328i and right now in mixed driving I'm getting... 26 MPG.

The diesel F30s in Europe are clocking well in excess of 30 MPG combined right now. BMW plans to finally bring the turbo diesel 4 here and they'll probably put it in the F10, F30, etc. Imagine an X3 that finally gets over 30 MPG on the freeway?
I am not saying that 4 cylinder development is not a good idea, I am just afraid we will all get pushed into it for certain models. You see if with some asian makes that now certain cars only have options of different 4 cylinder engines. These were cars that used to have 6 as an option.
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