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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 12-12-2013, 04:37 PM
Georgetown Georgetown is offline
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Generic Transmission Fluid

I have been having issues with my tranny that was suppose to get fixed by a local shop. Got it back and it was working fine!! Drove it around and punched it and it worked fine. Then I was driving and pushed it a little hard again and its slipping with it goes into gear 3/4 and I get a trans malfunction error. I am just reaching here but would I get this kind of error if the guy put some cheap generic store brand ATF transmission fluid in the tranny??
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2013, 05:17 PM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Re: Generic Transmission Fluid

You need proper ATF fluid, the st tranny is very sensitive to oil type. I use zf (something) 6 oil. Sorry, can't remember the full name.

Sent from my Droid bug
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2013, 05:55 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgetown View Post
I have been having issues with my tranny that was suppose to get fixed by a local shop. Got it back and it was working fine!! Drove it around and punched it and it worked fine. Then I was driving and pushed it a little hard again and its slipping with it goes into gear 3/4 and I get a trans malfunction error. I am just reaching here but would I get this kind of error if the guy put some cheap generic store brand ATF transmission fluid in the tranny??
You absolutely CAN NOT use regular transmission fluid. Use only ZF fluid. thectsc.com has it. It's called lifeguard 6.

Also, you cannot change the fluid and NOT reset the transmission adaptations or you'll have problems.

Personally when I had this problem I needed new solenoids (valve body / mechatronics, see posts in my signature). Mine was doing exactly what yours is doing and needed solenoids

How many miles are on the car and what problems were you having? What did they do to fix it originally?

Last edited by schpenxel; 12-12-2013 at 05:57 PM.
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  #4  
Old 12-13-2013, 05:18 AM
Georgetown Georgetown is offline
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I know you can not use it but what I am asking is if the guy did use it to try to go the cheap way ou,t will I get these same symptoms?
I think he may have done this and I am just asking. I dont know for sure but think he did this.
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  #5  
Old 12-13-2013, 05:21 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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There's no way to know but I'm sure you'd have issues

The real zf fluid is a yellow'ish brown color, but most regular transmission fluids are red, so with that you should at least be able to tell what he used
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  #6  
Old 12-14-2013, 05:55 PM
Georgetown Georgetown is offline
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People at ZF told me that my transmission has bad or worn busnings
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  #7  
Old 12-15-2013, 07:43 AM
banglenot banglenot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgetown View Post
People at ZF told me that my transmission has bad or worn busnings
You sure it was ZF? Do they have a customer service line?

Anyway, not at all sure what are "busnings" ("bushings", maybe?) in a ZF tranny (schpenxel, do you know?). Usually, what fails prematurely are actuators (see thectsc.com for examples).
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  #8  
Old 12-15-2013, 07:46 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Originally Posted by banglenot View Post
You sure it was ZF? Do they have a customer service line?

Anyway, not at all sure what are "busnings" ("bushings", maybe?) in a ZF tranny (schpenxel, do you know?). Usually, what fails prematurely are actuators (see thectsc.com for examples).
Yeah, instead of bearings at the center of the clutch baskets I think they use bushings. Not that unusual and I have heard of them wearing out before on this transmission. In that case it caused some weird code to happen

I'll try to find the post where it happened to someone else tonight. On the way to work on my motor right now
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  #9  
Old 12-15-2013, 07:57 AM
banglenot banglenot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
Yeah, instead of bearings at the center of the clutch baskets I think they use bushings. Not that unusual and I have heard of them wearing out before on this transmission. In that case it caused some weird code to happen

I'll try to find the post where it happened to someone else tonight. On the way to work on my motor right now
Thanks. George has only 9 posts, so you might want to see if he comes back before you put a lot of time into it. Good luck on the engine -- look like its coming along.
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  #10  
Old 12-15-2013, 08:35 AM
Georgetown Georgetown is offline
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Hey Guys I am back, (Crazy holiday running around lol)
I only have 9 post becasue I am new to this group. I used to have a 2001 33i and never had any problems with that one.
Yeah I did get that info from CTSC . I have attached a cut and paste of the email below.

The CTSC
Dec 13 (2 days ago)

to me
Hi George,

Using the wrong oil can cause problems but usually in the long run.
Your transmission has bad/worn bushings, as stated earlier.
To fix your car you need a rebuild trans.

Best regards
Klaus
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  #11  
Old 12-15-2013, 08:59 AM
banglenot banglenot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgetown View Post
Hey Guys I am back, (Crazy holiday running around lol)
I only have 9 post becasue I am new to this group. I used to have a 2001 33i and never had any problems with that one.
Yeah I did get that info from CTSC . I have attached a cut and paste of the email below.

The CTSC
Dec 13 (2 days ago)

to me
Hi George,

Using the wrong oil can cause problems but usually in the long run.
Your transmission has bad/worn bushings, as stated earlier.
To fix your car you need a rebuild trans.

Best regards
Klaus
No prob. We get a lot of low-post-never-come-back, so those of us who comment want to make sure our efforts do something.

CTSC knows their stuff, so you need a real hands-on diag from someone familiar with ZF's.

I don't know who rebuilds ZF transmissions. Perhaps you could ask a local indy for advice on the matter, since I'm skeptical of the average Aamco or whatever. BMW dealers will typically only replace them. A ZF-BMW factory remanufactured is somewhere around $3K. A new one is a waste of money for a high mileage car.

BTW, how many miles on it?
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Last edited by banglenot; 12-15-2013 at 09:04 AM.
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2013, 07:27 PM
Georgetown Georgetown is offline
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Klaus told me it would be $3600 for new tranny and valve body.
Car has 89k.

I purchased the car from a girl who screwed up the tranny and had someone who told me they can fix it for $1000. Funny thing is that he did fix it and it ran perfect but it was leaking tranny fluid. The guy who fixed it went out of town so I had to wait for him to come back. While I was waiting for him I had the entire interior replace from a tan 2004 interior to a black 2010 interior. On my way home from getting the interior replaced is when the car started acting up. We are going crazy trying to figure out what went wrong then klaus from ZF told me it was the solenoid in front of the shifter that was causing the problem and asked me if I did anything around the shifter. I told him that I had the entire interior replaced and he told me to check to see if the solenoid was disconnected and it sure was. We connected it and now all kids of issues are happening. Now klaus told me it was the bushings that needed to be replaced. Let me see if I cant get the guy to replace those under warranty
Now I know why some people call it a B M Trouble you! lol
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  #13  
Old 02-15-2014, 10:47 PM
DieselMsport DieselMsport is offline
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auto transmission oil

Hi guys, recently I have done transmission oil flush on my 2011 335d M sport at 40K miles I did use Ford Mercon SP oil and I changed the oil 3 times. My car shifts so nice and smooth now I love it and I still average 33 to 37 mpg on long trips. The Mercon SP was developed for 2005 Lincoln navigator which has the same ZF 6hp26 (6 speed hi torque) unit. The color of Mercon SP is red (which does not matter) and the price is less than $8 bucks per quart at your local Ford dealer. Like I said my car shifts wonderfully smooth and I saved couple hundred dollars on oil. Sorry Klaus from CTCS . Also changed my rear diff oil using Mobil 1 gear oil 75-90w. As soon as my car hits 50K miles I will flush the power steering system. I like to keep my cars for 8 to 10 years hoping to get 200k miles with out any major expensive repair. One of my other cars is 2006 accord V6 with 260K miles on the clock running strong and trouble free. Let me know if you guys have any questions
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  #14  
Old 02-16-2014, 06:39 AM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselMsport View Post
..... on my 2011 335d M sport at 40K miles I did use Ford Mercon SP oil and I changed the oil 3 times. My car shifts so nice and smooth now I love it .......
@DieselMsport, does your 335d car has ZF 6HP19Z AT?
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  #15  
Old 02-16-2014, 08:38 AM
DieselMsport DieselMsport is offline
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Mein Auto: 2011 335D M sport
ZF 6hp19

My 335d has 6hp28 unit. The last two digits is the torque rating, my car has 427 ft/lb so it needs stronger unit to be able to deal with the torque. I have rebuilt more than 4 thousand auto transmissions. Unfortunately people let their cars die early by not changing the fluid.
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  #16  
Old 02-16-2014, 08:49 AM
Boland01 Boland01 is offline
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If the Mercon SP is an approved ZF fluid as you say then that will be a major fluid cost savings compared to the ZF brand. Also, will be easier to get locally.
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  #17  
Old 02-16-2014, 08:52 AM
Boland01 Boland01 is offline
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DieselMsport, forgot to ask did they change out your tranny fluid too? How much did they charge you fro everything?
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  #18  
Old 02-16-2014, 09:45 AM
DieselMsport DieselMsport is offline
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Nobody out there will approve somebody else's products. Every car manufacturer wants to sell his products. There are many hidden secrets that nobody will tell you. I used to rebuild transmissions at my dad's shop, now I work for department of water and power as electrical engineer. I went to bunch of A T R A seminars and read many articles regarding automotive oils plus I have seen the reality at my dad's shop. Go ahead and Google out Ford motor craft oil charts. Many transmission design engineers are copying the latest innovations from each other. I just hate getting ripped off for no reason. I don't mind sharing my past experience. I am trying to attach the oil chart where you can see that Mercon SP was developed for 6hp26.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf atf-2.pdf (289.5 KB, 32 views)
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  #19  
Old 02-16-2014, 10:21 AM
Boland01 Boland01 is offline
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Agree 100%! I see the last year the chart lists Mercon SP for our ZFHP26 is 2008. I'm sure it still applies on our 2009 and 2010 vehicles as there were no changes to the transmission that I've ever heard of.
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  #20  
Old 02-16-2014, 02:52 PM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselMsport View Post
.... Unfortunately people let their cars die early by not changing the fluid.
+1000, I have been a victim of the same scenario. For people in Australia, the cheaper option seems to be
http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Aut.../#.UwFWefmSwsY

But I am not sure if there claim is correct.

Last edited by kskane; 02-16-2014 at 05:24 PM.
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  #21  
Old 02-16-2014, 02:57 PM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselMsport View Post
Nobody out there will approve somebody else's products. Every car manufacturer wants to sell his products. There are many hidden secrets that nobody will tell you. I used to rebuild transmissions at my dad's shop, now I work for department of water and power as electrical engineer. I went to bunch of A T R A seminars and read many articles regarding automotive oils plus I have seen the reality at my dad's shop. Go ahead and Google out Ford motor craft oil charts. Many transmission design engineers are copying the latest innovations from each other. I just hate getting ripped off for no reason. I don't mind sharing my past experience. I am trying to attach the oil chart where you can see that Mercon SP was developed for 6hp26.
Thanks DieselMsport, appreciate you sharing your experience. I have two questions,
  1. Can I mix ZF 6 oil with Mercon and fill up my AT
  2. For filling the AT, in step 2 for topping up with gear in motion, can that step be done with wheels off the car?
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  #22  
Old 02-16-2014, 07:42 PM
DieselMsport DieselMsport is offline
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Dear k s Kane, mixing Mercon SP with ZF life guard is not an issue, If you look at M S D S of each oil they are identical, IF your car has 80K miles or more drop the pan and change the filter. During filling procedure you don't need the wheels to be on the car just keep your foot on the brake pedal and shift thru all the positions stop for 2 seconds in each position to fill up the cavities in the valve body. The oil pump will fill up the torque converter and valve body in few seconds. Also sending you some attachment regarding filling procedure which is the same for all ZF automatics.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 6HP26-28_Catalog.pdf (1.40 MB, 28 views)
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  #23  
Old 02-16-2014, 07:50 PM
DieselMsport DieselMsport is offline
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Don't let the wheels spin that will not improve the filling procedure your car's computer might get confused by not receiving any rpm from the front wheels.
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  #24  
Old 02-16-2014, 08:48 PM
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kskane kskane is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselMsport View Post
Don't let the wheels spin that will not improve the filling procedure your car's computer might get confused by not receiving any rpm from the front wheels.
Great point, last time I let it spin and the third gear would slip back to 2 automatically. So basically, P>R>N>D>1>2>3>4>5>6>5>4>3>2>1>D>N>R>P with break pushed. Is that it?

Thanks for the Cataloge, hope that helps others as I have 6HP19 AT and I believe I have the parts list. But appreciate you sharing it.
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:50 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kskane View Post
Great point, last time I let it spin and the third gear would slip back to 2 automatically. So basically, P>R>N>D>1>2>3>4>5>6>5>4>3>2>1>D>N>R>P with break pushed. Is that it?

Thanks for the Cataloge, hope that helps others as I have 6HP19 AT and I believe I have the parts list. But appreciate you sharing it.
You can't force it into 4/5/6 while sitting still, 3 is as high as it'll let you go.
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