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E85 / E86 Z4 (2003-2008)
E85 Z4 convertible and E86 Z4 coupe talk with our BMW gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 05-13-2011, 10:33 AM
Living Dead Living Dead is offline
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Question 2006 Z4 failed hydraulic motor

I'm new to this site and I have a question about manually moving the top. I have a 2006 Z4 3.0i and the top stopped working about a month ago, the dealer wants $3,000 plus to fix it. After reading the manual and some posts here I pulled the red handle in the trunk to put it down manually which it did with ease. When I tried to raise it, no luck. After about 4 hours of trying (repeatedly pulling and turning the red handle, pressing the up button (the locking motor in the window frame and the one int the trunk still seem to function) which I suppose releases the lock but wouldn't) I finally got it to go up again. It has not been down again because I'm afraid it will get stuck again and this is my only car. The release for the lock in the trunk that the owners manual says to pull to release the lock doesn't exist. Apparently they removed it in 2006 but didn't change the manual until 2007. When it finally went up it went up smoothly and easily. Barring the problem with it locking down it seems that working it manually is easy and I would rather do this than spend thousands to get the motor fixed. Am I doing something wrong? Has anyone experienced the same problem?

Last edited by Living Dead; 05-13-2011 at 10:34 AM. Reason: Spelling error
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  #2  
Old 05-13-2011, 12:03 PM
Proofrock Proofrock is offline
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Yes, I had the same issue. I own an '06, which recently had the motor fail. When attempting to raise my top manually, I learned that the red loop needed to be continually pulled outward while the top was raised. For whatever reason, simply turning the loop to lock it in the pulled position was not enough. I suspect the tension needs to be adjusted.

FYI, my dealer quoted me a price of $1200 to replace the motor, including parts and labor.
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  #3  
Old 05-13-2011, 01:56 PM
Living Dead Living Dead is offline
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Thanks proofrock, I'll try that as soon as I get the car back from the dealer.

On the way home from work today the speedometer, odometer stopped working along with 5 IP lights, the ABS, break, tire pressure, traction control and service engine soon all came on at once too plus the auto locking doors didn't. I'm sure what ever this is will cost a fortune as well. They also wanted $620 for what amounts to an oil, air filter and cabin filter change along with some "inspections". $1,200 sounds like a bargain although I can't afford that either.

For the motor they said the part alone was $1,200 plus 8-10 hours labor at $150 per hour ($1,200 to $1,500) plus tax @ 8.65% here in NY not including anything else they might find.

I thought I was smart buying CPO but now I know why only rich or broke people only own BMW's. This midlife crisis is killing me although my wife says it is probably cheaper than running off with a 20year old.
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  #4  
Old 05-13-2011, 06:37 PM
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LauraM LauraM is offline
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MUCH cheaper than a 20 year old. They are HUGELY expensive.

Time to learn how the work on your own car. I am. Just because the stealership pisses me off.

Good luck!
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  #5  
Old 05-14-2011, 08:18 AM
WestCDA WestCDA is offline
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Something sure doesn't sound right. I looked up the hydraulic motor on both realoem.com and Tischer, and the LIST price is around 400 dollars - before any purchase discount. And if your car is a CPO, all that stuff with the sensors, lights, speedo, ODO, etc. is all covered - you shouldn't be paying for any of it.

My car is also a CPO, until July of next near. Listed in the CPO coverage document under 'Electrical System' is 'Convertible top storage lid and top drive motors'. Why are they not covering the repair for that?

Last edited by WestCDA; 05-14-2011 at 08:20 AM.
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  #6  
Old 05-14-2011, 08:37 AM
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LarkHouston LarkHouston is offline
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  #7  
Old 05-14-2011, 06:09 PM
Proofrock Proofrock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCDA View Post
My car is also a CPO, until July of next near. Listed in the CPO coverage document under 'Electrical System' is 'Convertible top storage lid and top drive motors'. Why are they not covering the repair for that?
BMWNA routinely takes the position that if the top motor fails because of corrosion, ie because of water exposure, it is not covered under the CPO warranty. Of course, the vast majority of top motor failures are due to water exposure due to BMW's faulty drain design.

Last edited by Proofrock; 05-14-2011 at 06:10 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #8  
Old 05-14-2011, 08:32 PM
WestCDA WestCDA is offline
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They do say in the CPO booklet that failures due to 'neglect' and 'environmental conditions' are not covered. I hardly see how it could be considered owner neglect, and I'd certainly exhaust all avenues available for argument/complaint, before I'd allow them to weasel out on 'environmental conditions'. A car subjected to rain is not an abnormal condition ...

Last edited by WestCDA; 05-14-2011 at 08:33 PM.
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  #9  
Old 05-15-2011, 06:11 AM
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shipkiller shipkiller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Dead View Post
I'm new to this site and I have a question about manually moving the top. I have a 2006 Z4 3.0i and the top stopped working about a month ago, the dealer wants $3,000 plus to fix it. After reading the manual and some posts here I pulled the red handle in the trunk to put it down manually which it did with ease. When I tried to raise it, no luck. After about 4 hours of trying (repeatedly pulling and turning the red handle, pressing the up button (the locking motor in the window frame and the one int the trunk still seem to function) which I suppose releases the lock but wouldn't) I finally got it to go up again. It has not been down again because I'm afraid it will get stuck again and this is my only car. The release for the lock in the trunk that the owners manual says to pull to release the lock doesn't exist. Apparently they removed it in 2006 but didn't change the manual until 2007. When it finally went up it went up smoothly and easily. Barring the problem with it locking down it seems that working it manually is easy and I would rather do this than spend thousands to get the motor fixed. Am I doing something wrong? Has anyone experienced the same problem?
I would like to write a detailed response but your description confused the hell out of me.

The reason why the red emergency release handle did not work is your softtop hydraulic motor is corroded and the hydraulic release valve which is located on the motor was stuck. All your ministrations must have partially fixed that one particular issue.

You say you pulled the red emergency release in the trunk then in the next line you say it does not exist and was removed in 2006. Which statement is correct?

I already know the answer to this I just want to make sure I am comprehending you properly.....




Quote:
Originally Posted by Proofrock View Post
Yes, I had the same issue. I own an '06, which recently had the motor fail. When attempting to raise my top manually, I learned that the red loop needed to be continually pulled outward while the top was raised. For whatever reason, simply turning the loop to lock it in the pulled position was not enough. I suspect the tension needs to be adjusted.

FYI, my dealer quoted me a price of $1200 to replace the motor, including parts and labor.
You don't have to 'continuously pull" the red release handle to manually raise the top.

There is a slit or groove manufactured into the cableway that allows you to pull and SET the bypass valve. Once you are finished manually manipulating the softtop, pull the cable handle to allow it to go back into the cableway. The cable does not move very far. Maybe 1/4" so so.
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  #10  
Old 05-15-2011, 08:42 AM
Proofrock Proofrock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shipkiller View Post
You don't have to 'continuously pull" the red release handle to manually raise the top.

There is a slit or groove manufactured into the cableway that allows you to pull and SET the bypass valve. Once you are finished manually manipulating the softtop, pull the cable handle to allow it to go back into the cableway. The cable does not move very far. Maybe 1/4" so so.
On my vehicle you certainly do have to "continuously pull" the release handle, trust me.

I fully understand that your description is how the cable is supposedto work. On my particular vehicle, however, continuous pressure must be exerted on the cable in order for the top to be raised. As I stated, placing the cable in the "SET" position does not provide enough pressure to access the bypass the valve.

I posted my experience because the OP seems to have a similar issue. I think we all recognize that you have a considerable level of expertise on the subject, and your website is certainly very helpful; however, applications vary from vehicle to vehicle, especially when corrosion of parts is involved.
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  #11  
Old 05-15-2011, 08:42 AM
pvr pvr is offline
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Think he probably means the top lock mechanism that was removed in 2006.

Thought that the 2006 motors were insulated and not failing due to the water ingress, guess the water still finds a way in then.
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  #12  
Old 05-15-2011, 09:01 AM
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shipkiller shipkiller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proofrock View Post
On my vehicle you certainly do have to "continuously pull" the release handle, trust me.

I fully understand that your description is how the cable is supposedto work. On my particular vehicle, however, continuous pressure must be exerted on the cable in order for the top to be raised. As I stated, placing the cable in the "SET" position does not provide enough pressure to access the bypass the valve.

I posted my experience because the OP seems to have a similar issue. I think we all recognize that you have a considerable level of expertise on the subject, and your website is certainly very helpful; however, applications vary from vehicle to vehicle, especially when corrosion of parts is involved.
I understand now. Your explanation was vague.
Anyhow, if you have to continually apply pressure to the cable then you have an issue that should be fixed because it does not work as designed. Will it get fixed? Up to you if you think it is worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvr View Post
Think he probably means the top lock mechanism that was removed in 2006.

Thought that the 2006 motors were insulated and not failing due to the water ingress, guess the water still finds a way in then.


Hey PVR, hows the UK weather...

top lock mechanism.... Now that makes sense.. and you are correct in that it was deleted in MY 2006. If you take an older car in for the squeaking or not locking issue that sometimes happens, SIB SI B 54 16 06 talks about this. Some dealers will remove the mechanical lock mechanism when taken in for the above mentioned repair.

BMW's "FIX" was to change the cloth tape that gets applied on the sound insulation (motor housing) joints. Like all tape, it will fail after some period of time...

Another topic.. When you came over to the US and we met, you told me not to drive an ///M because I would buy it. You were right...
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How does something immoral, when done privately, become moral when it is done collectively?
Furthermore, does legality establish morality?
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  #13  
Old 05-15-2011, 10:08 AM
Living Dead Living Dead is offline
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Sorry Shipkiller for the confusion, the pull handle that was removed in 2006 was the lock release handle which releases the lock to keep the roof down which should be on the back wall of the trunk while the red pressure release handle is on the top of the trunk on the right side. This is the red handle I was referring to that I pulled which on the first attempt the top went down very easily and smoothly and promptly got stuck down at which point I tried pulling the handle, pressing the up button, pulled the top up but it would not budge for 4 hours then all of a sudden when I pulled it probably for the 50th time it finally went up again, very smoothly and easily.

Thanks for the info re the CPO coverage maybe if I make enough noise they will honor the repair.
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  #14  
Old 05-15-2011, 05:36 PM
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No worries...
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How does something immoral, when done privately, become moral when it is done collectively?
Furthermore, does legality establish morality?
Slavery was legal; apartheid was legal; Stalinist, Nazi, and Maoist purges were legal. Clearly, the fact of legality does not justify these crimes. Legality, alone, cannot be the talisman of morel people. - Walter E. Williams
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  #15  
Old 05-18-2011, 09:49 AM
Living Dead Living Dead is offline
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The IP lights & spedo were fixed under the warranty, the computer failed. I called BMW customer service about the hydraulic motor and spoke to a supervisor today after they didn't respond to my e-mails. I mentioned that as an electronic component it should be covered. They said they will try to help but since it is water damage it will probably not be covered. I explained that there is nothing I could do to maintain the drain holes short of removing the roof every couple of months and that if the car could not be subjected to rain without causing thousands of dollars in damage then it is a design flaw that should be covered under the warranty. She was noncommittal but said she would advocate for me with the dealer and warranty company. I'll report back when I know more.
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  #16  
Old 05-18-2011, 11:49 AM
WestCDA WestCDA is offline
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Thanks for the update. Glad to hear they are covering the panel stuff (as one would expect) - hope they take the high road on the top motor as well. Please keep us posted!
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  #17  
Old 06-04-2011, 11:00 PM
bcworkz bcworkz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Dead View Post
the pull handle that was removed in 2006 was the lock release handle which releases the lock to keep the roof down which should be on the back wall of the trunk
Slightly OT, but since you mentioned it, for the record: The removed in 2006 release cable at the back trunk wall (actually forward wall) released the oddments compartment electric driven lock, not the top release lock. The top release lock was mechanical and would not have warranted an alternate release mechanism. If one removes the cover with the lock buttons above the oddments compartment, you can see the mechanism to release the compartment lock still exists, only the cable was deleted. It's easy to assume the two deletions are related, since they were deleted at the same time, are in the same area, and both were lock related, but they are not related.

I guess BMW decided that their lock drivers were reliable enough to do away with the alternate release for a compartment in which you shouldn't store anything valuable anyway. OTOH, the fuel door is more important, and they weren't totally confident of their lock drivers, so they left that alternate release in place. My question is, how DO you get to your stuff now if the compartment lock driver did fail? Looks like you might be able to jimmy the spring loaded catch through the door gap, but probably not without leaving marks. The only other way I can imagine to get in is to break something, that would definitely leave a mark.
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  #18  
Old 06-06-2011, 06:25 AM
Living Dead Living Dead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Dead View Post
The IP lights & spedo were fixed under the warranty, the computer failed. I called BMW customer service about the hydraulic motor and spoke to a supervisor today after they didn't respond to my e-mails. I mentioned that as an electronic component it should be covered. They said they will try to help but since it is water damage it will probably not be covered. I explained that there is nothing I could do to maintain the drain holes short of removing the roof every couple of months and that if the car could not be subjected to rain without causing thousands of dollars in damage then it is a design flaw that should be covered under the warranty. She was noncommittal but said she would advocate for me with the dealer and warranty company. I'll report back when I know more.
Tomorrow will be 4 weeks since my call to BMW, I heard from the rep two weeks ago and she said they were working on it. I called last week to check the progress and have not heard back. This is beginning to remind me of my dealings with Ford when the paint started pealing on my Mustang after only 3 months, they never did fix the problem but wasted a lot of my time trying to get the situation resolved. I have been able to manually put the top up and down, the pressure release does need constant pressure, thank god for duct tape! However the "Ultimate driving machine" should not have duct tape anywhere on it. To be continued.....
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Old 06-20-2011, 07:53 AM
Living Dead Living Dead is offline
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Shortly after my last post I heard that my claim has been referred to BMW corporate in New Jersey. It has been almost two weeks now that I received that call and have not heard anything else. I called the rep today and he hasn't heard back from whoever it is he is waiting to hear from. I feel like I'm being jerked around, what could possibly be taking so long? Between the insane prices at the dealership for service items and the lack of customer service from customer service the frequent brakedowns my initial love of this car is turning into serious dislike. This is my first BMW and at this rate I think it will probably be my last.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:55 PM
fastgaas fastgaas is offline
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When you find the perfect car and perfect model let us know...

As a engineer of 30 years, perfection is an idea, not a reality. Some cars are definitely better than others, but some things (like convertible tops) are complicated. The Z4 approach is not perfect, I spent $350 and a afternoon to replace my hydraulic motor that the previous owner had go bad. Yep, dirt filled the drain and water ruined it. Yep, if cleaned properly this won't happen. But it did and I took responsibility to fix it.

BMW is a business, not a life style or social status adjuster. They make a very fine driving machine, but perhaps not the best get dirty and wet machine. I don't think your ever going to complain enough for them to repair the car. At most, a good will gesture may result (which BMW has done for me on motorcycles) where you buy the part and they do the labor.

-H
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  #21  
Old 06-20-2011, 04:32 PM
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I agree completely with what you say fastgaas. As a Submarine Combat Systems Engineer with 30+ years experience, I can positively say, 'anything made by Man WILL break'.

If you are not happy with BMW, then by all means sell the car and get a car more to your liking, say maybe, a Honda. It will last and last, but it will not put a smile on your face like a BMW. I know, I have a 2006 Accord.

BMW stands for "Bring Money With you"
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How does something immoral, when done privately, become moral when it is done collectively?
Furthermore, does legality establish morality?
Slavery was legal; apartheid was legal; Stalinist, Nazi, and Maoist purges were legal. Clearly, the fact of legality does not justify these crimes. Legality, alone, cannot be the talisman of morel people. - Walter E. Williams
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  #22  
Old 06-21-2011, 06:12 AM
Living Dead Living Dead is offline
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It isn't the car that I don't like, I love the car and knew going in it would be expensive to repair and maintain. Maybe what I should have said is that I wouldn't buy a CPO BMW again. It has been less than two years since I purchased it and I expect BMW to honor its warranty and I wouldn't have had a $2,700 repair until after the warranty had expired which I don't think is an unreasonable expectation especially since they promote their CPO program as being better than buying a new BMW.

What really is making my blood boil is that it has been well over a month since my first contact with customer service. I don't understand why it should take so long to come to a decision. I'm being bumped around to one rep after another. The last one said he was sorry it was taking so long to get an answer to my SUNROOF problem. I explained to him again that I have a convertible top problem. When I called him yesterday after two weeks he sounded as if I had just woken him from a deep sleep and I had to explain once again that it wasn't a SUNROOF problem. He then explained that the person he asked is very busy and it will take a while for him to respond.

This is not the kind of customer service I would expect from BMW or any manufacturer for that matter that wants repeat business.

BTW fastgaas cleaning and maintaining the drain was never mentioned either by the dealer or in the owner's manual and therefore I don't take responsibility for it although in the end I will probably have to fix it myself.

Last edited by Living Dead; 06-21-2011 at 06:13 AM.
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  #23  
Old 06-21-2011, 08:50 AM
X5M5 X5M5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Dead View Post
This is not the kind of customer service I would expect from BMW or any manufacturer for that matter that wants repeat business.

BTW fastgaas cleaning and maintaining the drain was never mentioned either by the dealer or in the owner's manual and therefore I don't take responsibility for it although in the end I will probably have to fix it myself.

Well it looks like you are in New York. I would definitely suggest trying to go to another dealer. Explain the situation and reinforce the fact that it is very well known that the top motors go bad.

If all else fails, Shipkiller is in VA, maybe you can drive down there and get some help getting this thing fixed? Yeah its time consuming but then you have a fixed car and you are good to go as long as you own it.

I agree, BMWs customer service stinks, but understand that all manufacturers have lousy customer service departments. It's a fury of e-mails going back and forth amongst internal BMW employees, and it's apparent that the person who is approving/dis-approving your repair is ignoring the emails.

Chris
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  #24  
Old 06-22-2011, 03:06 AM
Mikey48 Mikey48 is offline
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I agree with you Living Dead. BMW really needs to work on its quality control and its customer service !!!
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  #25  
Old 06-22-2011, 05:54 AM
Living Dead Living Dead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey48 View Post
I agree with you Living Dead. BMW really needs to work on its quality control and its customer service !!!
What scares me is that they might approve repairs to my SUNROOF but not the hydraulic motor of the convertible top.
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