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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #51  
Old 09-19-2012, 06:04 AM
triplrocks triplrocks is offline
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When I went with my grandpa to buy my car, bell Audi in Edison new jersey, all the salesmen were very honest and the man we dealt with, I believe his name was mike, didn't even do the "like the car? Look at this this this c'mon buy it". Mike talked to my grandpa about all the cars my grandpa had owned. After the test drive he said " I won't even try to negotiate with you, you know what the car is worth as much as we do". Not all dealers are shady.
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  #52  
Old 09-19-2012, 06:57 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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I don't know what happened with the OP's SIL but the car buying process can be very stressful and overwhelming for some. It's not fair to assume that all people have the experience and composure when committing to the second most expensive purchase in their lives. Many dealers capitalize on this being the case. The good thing is there are often laws that allow a buyer to return a car within a certain timer period post purchase I believe. If the person in question in this thread wants to, they should return to the dealer, see the Sales Manager and express their regret for signing for these unwanted packages.

By the way the wheel and tire protection is worthwhile but should be closer to $900.00.
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  #53  
Old 09-19-2012, 07:35 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
The good thing is there are often laws that allow a buyer to return a car within a certain timer period post purchase I believe. If the person in question in this thread wants to, they should return to the dealer, see the Sales Manager and express their regret for signing for these unwanted packages.
There is no such law in MA, is there a return law for new and used cars in MI ?
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  #54  
Old 09-19-2012, 08:00 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is online now
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
I don't know what happened with the OP's SIL but the car buying process can be very stressful and overwhelming for some. It's not fair to assume that all people have the experience and composure when committing to the second most expensive purchase in their lives. Many dealers capitalize on this being the case.
Given it's second most expensive purchase someone is likely to make doesn't it make sense they would be more informed / careful about the purchase?

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The good thing is there are often laws that allow a buyer to return a car within a certain timer period post purchase I believe. If the person in question in this thread wants to, they should return to the dealer, see the Sales Manager and express their regret for signing for these unwanted packages.
Colorado has no such buyers remorse law if you go to the dealer to buy your vehicle. In fact dealers have started having buyers sign a document which states there is no such law because there's a misconception you have three days to return the vehicle.
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  #55  
Old 09-19-2012, 08:29 AM
JimCameron JimCameron is offline
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Just a guess here; is your sister in law a blond?
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  #56  
Old 09-19-2012, 08:40 AM
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CarMax gives you 5 days to return for a full refund ..... without being compelled by a law ..... its a nice marketing touch to give the buyer a little peace of mind and differentiates them from many dealers.

Maybe Peyton Manning would have liked to have had a "throwers remorse" option before he started playing catch with the Atlanta defensive backs Monday night
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  #57  
Old 09-19-2012, 10:47 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Payton who?
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  #58  
Old 09-19-2012, 05:14 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
Given it's second most expensive purchase someone is likely to make doesn't it make sense they would be more informed / careful about the purchase?



Colorado has no such buyers remorse law if you go to the dealer to buy your vehicle. In fact dealers have started having buyers sign a document which states there is no such law because there's a misconception you have three days to return the vehicle.
You're projecting your analysis skills to all. Yes it makes sense but in the excitement of picking up a car adrenaline can lead to confusion.

Looks like I was wrong about the remorse law. In some states this may apply to used cars but not new. I hope the dealership in the OP's post shows flexibility regarding the coverages.
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  #59  
Old 09-19-2012, 05:54 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is online now
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You're projecting your analysis skills to all. Yes it makes sense but in the excitement of picking up a car adrenaline can lead to confusion.
Analysis skills? I'm sorry but there are no special skills required in order to review the numbers laid out on a piece of paper. All that's required is some basic math skill along with some basic common sense. Unless the buyer didn't move past grade school lack of skill is a no excuse.
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  #60  
Old 09-19-2012, 06:02 PM
IAS IAS is offline
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the way it is sneaked in is in monthly payment, for example 50 per month extra. it seems no big deal per that is $3000 extra on 5y loan, both plans are not worth the cost, both could be cancelled with in a month with out any charge but month ly payment on loan will not change, the payment will be done earlier that term. women fall for it very easily, dealers play with peace of mind game. they make it sound very reasonable.
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  #61  
Old 09-19-2012, 06:32 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is online now
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the way it is sneaked in is in monthly payment, for example 50 per month extra. it seems no big deal per that is $3000 extra on 5y loan, both plans are not worth the cost, both could be cancelled with in a month with out any charge but month ly payment on loan will not change, the payment will be done earlier that term. women fall for it very easily, dealers play with peace of mind game. they make it sound very reasonable.
I would be very surprised if there wasn't a disclosure document which breaks these two items out on separate lines. In Colorado form number 553-CO-ARB is a form widely used by most (not sure if it's all) car dealers. It provides an area for itemization of the things which will be financed. Section I of this area is titled "Other Charges (Seller must identify who is paid and describe purpose.)" I would be surprised if other states did not have similar forms (in fact, while looking for a PDF copy to link to I see a list of approved contracts on a state by state basis):

http://www.tdafdealer.com/docs/funding/84-291-8457.pdf

It looks as if there might be a 553-CA-ARB form. Furthermore every sales order I have seen has an area for itemization of different charges. It's unlikely these items were not disclosed in some of the disclosure paperwork at the time of sale and was buried in a finance number.

Last edited by sunny5280; 09-19-2012 at 06:38 PM.
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  #62  
Old 09-19-2012, 07:31 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
Analysis skills? I'm sorry but there are no special skills required in order to review the numbers laid out on a piece of paper. All that's required is some basic math skill along with some basic common sense. Unless the buyer didn't move past grade school lack of skill is a no excuse.
Obviously we are not going to agree on this. But you are failing to see that the excitement of the moment can lead some people to miss such things or acquiesce and later have regret.
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  #63  
Old 09-20-2012, 06:05 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is online now
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Obviously we are not going to agree on this. But you are failing to see that the excitement of the moment can lead some people to miss such things or acquiesce and later have regret.
I am doing no such thing. I understand the excitement that goes into buying a new car. And if it was the excitement which caused the OPs SIL to miss this I can understand that reason. But that's her fault, not a sneaky sales tactic on the part of the dealer.
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  #64  
Old 09-20-2012, 06:14 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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I am doing no such thing. I understand the excitement that goes into buying a new car. And if it was the excitement which caused the OPs SIL to miss this I can understand that reason. But that's her fault, not a sneaky sales tactic on the part of the dealer.
LOL, that is what I call blaming the victim. Looks like we have another republican here
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  #65  
Old 09-20-2012, 06:16 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is online now
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LOL, that is what I call blaming the victim. Looks like we have another republican here
That's what I call "Personal Responsibility". Looks like we have another Democrat here
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  #66  
Old 09-20-2012, 07:04 AM
ERdiesel ERdiesel is offline
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LOL, that is what I call blaming the victim. Looks like we have another republican here

Actually it's what I would call "blaming the idiot", because if she signed off on everything and anything offered up to her without knowing if she even needed it, then she's an idiot. A shady dealer would have been the one to have offered her the BOGO deal on the 3series.........You know the one where she could have walked out of the dealership with the deal of a lifetime by paying $80,000 for the one 3 series car, and be given the second one for "free". Probably would have worked on her too.

In fact, based on people's excusing the lack of personal accountability on the part of others, i'm thinking it really is only a matter of time before someone begins a thread with, "Shady dealer sold me two cars..........when I only needed one".

Last edited by ERdiesel; 09-20-2012 at 07:06 AM.
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  #67  
Old 09-20-2012, 07:11 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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I'm not resolving the buyer of any blame, it's her fault for not recognizing the tactic. But you are being naive if you don't think dealers and especially sales managers aren't trained to exploit this scenario to tack on extra profit margin.
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  #68  
Old 09-20-2012, 07:18 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is online now
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I'm not resolving the buyer of any blame, it's her fault for not recognizing the tactic. But you are being naive if you don't think dealers and especially sales managers aren't trained to exploit this scenario to tack on extra profit margin.
You can only be exploited if you let people exploit you. Or you play the victim. People need to think for themselves and stop pretending they're a victim.

There's nothing sneaky or underhanded here. I'm sure the information was clearly spelled out on the disclosure documentation. The fact the buyer did not catch it lies solely on her shoulders.
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  #69  
Old 09-20-2012, 07:28 AM
ERdiesel ERdiesel is offline
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I'm not resolving the buyer of any blame, it's her fault for not recognizing the tactic. But you are being naive if you don't think dealers and especially sales managers aren't trained to exploit this scenario to tack on extra profit margin.

And you are naive if you don't think that anyone and everyone in sales is not going to attempt to cross sell a consumer on additional products/services that they may or may not need. Walk into your local best buy and purchase a TV and one of the first "add on" services that they will offer is an extended warranty. Is that a "sneaky" sales tactic to offer up the option? Of course not. Is it annoying that they do it, Yes, could be if you have no need or intention of taking on the extra cost.

With that said, no one is going to convince me that in this situation, the SIL who obviously is cost conscious (hence the used car versus new car) had a 20% premium over the cost of the car ($4K additional on a $20K purchase) "sneaked" into the final price by the dealer without her knowing exactly what she was agreeing to purchase. Why can't you acknowledge that most likely she knew exactly what she was doing at the time and she most likely had buyer's remorse afterwards. Even if the excitement of the moment got to her, the dealer can't be held accountable for her actions. I guess you must think every salesman is shady for simply doing their job. When I got my car, the finance manager offered up every add on warranty he could like the tire and wheel insurance, going into the sales pitch about NYC potholes and stuff and even showing me a shredded tire as an example of what could happen, but I turned it all down. But I surely knew if I didn't turn it down, without even listening to what he was offering, I know enough to know that it wouldn't have been free. In fact I would think anybody with half a brain would know that.

Last edited by ERdiesel; 09-20-2012 at 07:41 AM.
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  #70  
Old 09-20-2012, 07:36 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is online now
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And you are naive if you don't think that anyone and everyone in sales is not going to attempt to cross sell a consumer on additional products/services that they may or may not need. Walk into your local best buy and purchase a TV and one of the first "add on" services that they will offer is an extended warranty. Is that a "sneaky" sales tactic to offer up the option? Of course not. Is it annoying that they do it, Yes, could be if you have no need or intention of taking on the extra cost.
This happens all the time. I just bought a GS3 over the weekend. As part of the purchase the carrier added in $8.00/month for insuring the phone. Nothing sneaky about it as it's something many people want or are glad they had even if they didn't know its benefits. (because they cannot afford to be locked into a 2 year contract and pay for a replacement phone should they damage the current one). Being the prudent consumer I am I noticed this and asked them to remove it...which they gladly did. I even sat down and read through all 28 paragraphs of small print ToC to ensure I understood exactly what I was signing up for.

Last edited by sunny5280; 09-20-2012 at 07:38 AM.
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  #71  
Old 09-20-2012, 07:40 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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You can only be exploited if you let people exploit you. Or you play the victim. People need to think for themselves and stop pretending they're a victim.
I did not know Mitt Romney was on this forum
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  #72  
Old 09-20-2012, 07:58 AM
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I did not know Mitt Romney was on this forum
Take your politics elsewhere.
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  #73  
Old 09-20-2012, 09:00 AM
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Walk into your local best buy and purchase a TV and one of the first "add on" services that they will offer is an extended warranty.
That's a great reference .... and one of the reasons why I never shop at Best Buy ..... apparently more than a few other folks have reduced their Best Buy purchases as well.

Doing business with a dealer you can trust and feel good about is the way to go and wins for both the customer and the business.
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  #74  
Old 09-20-2012, 09:13 AM
ERdiesel ERdiesel is offline
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That's a great reference .... and one of the reasons why I never shop at Best Buy ..... apparently more than a few other folks have reduced their Best Buy purchases as well.

Doing business with a dealer you can trust and feel good about is the way to go and wins for both the customer and the business.

True, but BB is where they are because cheaper online shops like Amazon have decimated the retail bricks and mortar business model, not so much because of pushy sales people.

And you're right about doing business with someone that you can trust, however I have a feeling that the OP's SIL would have been in the same situation regardless of what dealer she went to.
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  #75  
Old 09-20-2012, 10:30 AM
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Zooks527 Zooks527 is offline
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True, but BB is where they are because cheaper online shops like Amazon have decimated the retail bricks and mortar business model, not so much because of pushy sales people.
Not sure about "cheaper" as opposed to "better service".

Currently looking at a flatscreen TV. For less money than just buying it at BB, Amazon will bring it to my house, have the guy carry it inside, unpack it, set it up, and take it back for free if I don't like it. BB will do the last one, but every other part of it is an extra, non-trivial charge.

It also doesn't help that I got out of the habit of going into BB when every one of them in our area seemed to think that blaring music in every part of the store (loud enough that you needed to raise your voice to speak to someone) was the ambiance they wanted to promote. Constant upsell ("You need to buy this $50 Monster optical cable, not that $5 generic one.") did a lot of damage to the brand as well.
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