Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)

E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 09-20-2012, 10:31 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,942
Mein Auto: 2012 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
Take your politics elsewhere.
And take your elitism elsewhere. You probably been scam a few time in your life and you dont even know it, so what does that make you, worst than the OP's SIL?
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 09-20-2012, 10:55 AM
55's Avatar
55 55 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: CANADA
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 557
Mein Auto: 2009 e91 X-drive, 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooks527 View Post
Not sure about "cheaper" as opposed to "better service".

Currently looking at a flatscreen TV. For less money than just buying it at BB, Amazon will bring it to my house, have the guy carry it inside, unpack it, set it up, and take it back for free if I don't like it. BB will do the last one, but every other part of it is an extra, non-trivial charge.

It also doesn't help that I got out of the habit of going into BB when every one of them in our area seemed to think that blaring music in every part of the store (loud enough that you needed to raise your voice to speak to someone) was the ambiance they wanted to promote. Constant upsell ("You need to buy this $50 Monster optical cable, not that $5 generic one.") did a lot of damage to the brand as well.
It is amazing how much money they make on that "Monster" scam, not necessary optical. I've heard them lying to customers face about serious advantages of all those nice looking cables.
Probably 1000% profit.
__________________
09
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:24 AM
ERdiesel ERdiesel is offline
Registered User
Location: NYC/NJ
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 87
Mein Auto: 2011 328i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooks527 View Post
Not sure about "cheaper" as opposed to "better service".

Currently looking at a flatscreen TV. For less money than just buying it at BB, Amazon will bring it to my house, have the guy carry it inside, unpack it, set it up, and take it back for free if I don't like it. BB will do the last one, but every other part of it is an extra, non-trivial charge.

It also doesn't help that I got out of the habit of going into BB when every one of them in our area seemed to think that blaring music in every part of the store (loud enough that you needed to raise your voice to speak to someone) was the ambiance they wanted to promote. Constant upsell ("You need to buy this $50 Monster optical cable, not that $5 generic one.") did a lot of damage to the brand as well.

You just made my point. The online experience is that it's just cheaper overall (and more convenient but people will overlook convenience for the right price), and that's the overwhelming factor in one's decision making process. I'm sure BB could charge a single price that "included" shipping of some kind instead of offering that as an extra, but even still it would be more expensive than an Amazon. Regardless, when you factor in the cheaper price of the item, the lack of sales tax, the cheaper shipping or even free shipping benefit, the online option makes more sense than a traditional bricks and mortars store. To further my point regarding price point being the overwhelming factor in the decision making process, drop by a Best Buy around the holidays when they're having their big discount holiday sales, especially on Black Friday, and you'll see that they are NOT lacking in sales because their price point becomes competitive with their online counterparts and they tend to throw in those extras for free. And as I said, at the right price point, people will overlook convenience and tolerate pushy salespeople.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:53 AM
Zooks527's Avatar
Zooks527 Zooks527 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Mansfield, MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,808
Mein Auto: 2009 335i xDrive coupe
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERdiesel View Post
And as I said, at the right price point, people will overlook convenience and tolerate pushy salespeople.
True enough. I think, though, that I was trying to say that while you can get away with missing one or two if the other is good enough, BB is typically on the wrong side of all 3.
__________________
2009 335i xDrive coupe, Jet Black, Black Leather, Grey Poplar, Steptronic, ZPP, ZSP, ZCW, iPod/USB, HD radio, Parking Assist. Rear Fogs, Hardwire V1, ProFit G3.
ED May 12, 2009, Munich dropoff May 16, Redelivery June 22, 2009




Prior 33 years of cars: 1967 BelAir wagon / 1968 LeMans Tempest / 1970 Mustang Mach 1 / 1972 El Dorado / 1978 Corvette (kept until first Bronco) / 1981 Subaru GL wagon AWD / 1983 s10 Blazer 4x4 (big mistake) / 1985 Bronco 4x4 / 1996 Bronco 4x4 / 2004 Passat 4motion
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:57 AM
ERdiesel ERdiesel is offline
Registered User
Location: NYC/NJ
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 87
Mein Auto: 2011 328i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooks527 View Post
True enough. I think, though, that I was trying to say that while you can get away with missing one or two if the other is good enough, BB is typically on the wrong side of all 3.

Yup, I think we can both agree on that!!!
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 09-20-2012, 12:15 PM
furby076's Avatar
furby076 furby076 is offline
IntarWeb Stalker
Location: 95 Feet Under
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,088
Mein Auto: 2013 335xi M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooks527 View Post

The $2500 maintenance plan will only pay for itself if she gets 2 brake jobs out of it,
FWIW,
George
Wait 2 dealer brake jobs = $2,500? Man I love my indy mechanic.

@OP - They should have included those things as part of the deal. I got mine as part of the deal. Both are valuable, but not at that price. Maintenance should be 1500 at most. CPO should be 2000 at most. Not sure what plans they got now, but when I bought my ride they included them
__________________
"Booberry" -ED 2013 335xi | B45 | ZMM | ZDA |Heated Seats | HK |EBII
My Drive Style

Because I can.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwinter View Post
I agree with furby
Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla twang View Post
Hahahaha, I like you furb, you like to live dangerously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorCook View Post
I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 09-20-2012, 12:21 PM
ERdiesel ERdiesel is offline
Registered User
Location: NYC/NJ
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 87
Mein Auto: 2011 328i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
Wait 2 dealer brake jobs = $2,500? Man I love my indy mechanic.

@OP - They should have included those things as part of the deal. I got mine as part of the deal. Both are valuable, but not at that price. Maintenance should be 1500 at most. CPO should be 2000 at most. Not sure what plans they got now, but when I bought my ride they included them

I'm pretty sure your dealer "included" them in your deal because, you actually negotiated for those items. I highly doubt there was any negotiation on the part of the OP's SIL.

BTW, congrats on the Killi climb Furby, quite an accomplishment!!!

Last edited by ERdiesel; 09-20-2012 at 12:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 09-20-2012, 12:26 PM
furby076's Avatar
furby076 furby076 is offline
IntarWeb Stalker
Location: 95 Feet Under
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,088
Mein Auto: 2013 335xi M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERdiesel View Post
Sorry to be harsh, but unless the buyer is a 12 year old child or someone with the mind of a child, I don't buy that explanation. We're talking about thousands of dollars, not a few dollars. Assuming you're an adult of some intelligence, no one is going to seriously convince me that they can get "duped" into paying an extra $4,100 without their knowledge at the time of the transaction. Some people can just be full of excuses for this and excuses for that and short on personal responsibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
They can't sneak anything into the contract unless you let them by not reading the paperwork you're signing. As ERdiesel has said: It's difficult to sneak in $4,100 on a $20,000 purchase. That's 20% the price of the car. The OP's SIL should have read the contract before she signed it, not afterwards.
While for us it may be hard to fathom, you're not thinking of those with less experience/knowledge. First, they throw a ton of paperwork at you - and sometimes say things like "sign now, read later, if you have issues call us". I know this is the case because they told me that when I bought mine. Luckily I had plenty of time and didn't care to wait. Second, sales people (including the finance guys) are in it for themselves (not a bad thing, just what it is) and they will hide things and say what is needed to get that extra sale. They may have pawned it off as taxes, double speak, etc.

Again - you guys are thinking from your perspective, and you need to take a step back and realize that not everyone has that perspective.

My g/f is a doctor, and the amount of crazy stories I hear from her about medical stuff is insane. Similar items where the patient is misinformed by the doctor and there is absolutely NO way the patient would realize this because they are not trained. My girlfriend says its so bad that she refuses to let me go to the doctor without her coming along. I am willing to bet that those of you, who are not in the medical profession, would have no idea what bad care you were receiving...you would sign off on the paperwork, and thank your doctor...in the meantime you got less then stellar care.

The above is no different and not hard to believe.

Either way. If she realized it a day after, going to the dealership and saying take it off is not out of line. The dealership may not want her to do it, and tell her she can't do it, but I'm pretty sure she can do it. The dealership can alternatively negotiate a lower price.
__________________
"Booberry" -ED 2013 335xi | B45 | ZMM | ZDA |Heated Seats | HK |EBII
My Drive Style

Because I can.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwinter View Post
I agree with furby
Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla twang View Post
Hahahaha, I like you furb, you like to live dangerously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorCook View Post
I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 09-20-2012, 12:28 PM
furby076's Avatar
furby076 furby076 is offline
IntarWeb Stalker
Location: 95 Feet Under
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,088
Mein Auto: 2013 335xi M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
Buying a car is not that difficult. If so many people are unable to do such a basic thing it says a lot to where this countries citizens have gone over the years. And it's not for the positive.
Buying a car is not basic. Washing yourself is basic. Eating is basic. Buying a car with the 50+ pages (that some of them are 2 times as long as a normal page) of small print is anything but basic.
__________________
"Booberry" -ED 2013 335xi | B45 | ZMM | ZDA |Heated Seats | HK |EBII
My Drive Style

Because I can.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwinter View Post
I agree with furby
Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla twang View Post
Hahahaha, I like you furb, you like to live dangerously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorCook View Post
I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 09-20-2012, 12:39 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,715
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
And take your elitism elsewhere. You probably been scam a few time in your life and you dont even know it, so what does that make you, worst than the OP's SIL?
My conversation is related to the topic these forums were created for. Politics is not in that list of topics.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 09-20-2012, 12:40 PM
ERdiesel ERdiesel is offline
Registered User
Location: NYC/NJ
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 87
Mein Auto: 2011 328i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
While for us it may be hard to fathom, you're not thinking of those with less experience/knowledge. First, they throw a ton of paperwork at you - and sometimes say things like "sign now, read later, if you have issues call us". I know this is the case because they told me that when I bought mine. Luckily I had plenty of time and didn't care to wait. Second, sales people (including the finance guys) are in it for themselves (not a bad thing, just what it is) and they will hide things and say what is needed to get that extra sale. They may have pawned it off as taxes, double speak, etc.

Again - you guys are thinking from your perspective, and you need to take a step back and realize that not everyone has that perspective.


Yes it is hard for me to fanthom because I would like to believe that people in general aren't so dumb. Unfortunately, it very well might be that i'm the dumb one for being so optimistic.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 09-20-2012, 12:47 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,715
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
While for us it may be hard to fathom, you're not thinking of those with less experience/knowledge.
You don't need experience nor a lot of knowledge. What you need are some basic reading and math skills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
First, they throw a ton of paperwork at you - and sometimes say things like "sign now, read later, if you have issues call us".
Which should be a big red flag. I've never had a dealer say this to me. Everyone one has had no problem allowing me to read over the paperwork they're pushing in front of me. They also explain the overall intent of each document.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
Second, sales people (including the finance guys) are in it for themselves (not a bad thing, just what it is) and they will hide things and say what is needed to get that extra sale.
Doesn't matter what they say. What matters is what's on the paperwork.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
They may have pawned it off as taxes, double speak, etc.
Which is why you read the documents which are binding on you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
Again - you guys are thinking from your perspective, and you need to take a step back and realize that not everyone has that perspective.
I am doing no such thing. The perspective I'm thinking from is: If you're going to be buying the second most expensive thing you're ever likely to buy in your lifetime then you should read and understand the documentation you're signing. It's not rocket science...all it takes it to examine the documents before signing. If one can't be bothered to do that then I have no sympathy for them. People need to stop expecting someone else to look out for their best interests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
Either way. If she realized it a day after, going to the dealership and saying take it off is not out of line. The dealership may not want her to do it, and tell her she can't do it, but I'm pretty sure she can do it. The dealership can alternatively negotiate a lower price.
I'm not attempting to say she shouldn't go back and ask. But if they refuse she should suck it up as her issue and not blame the dealer (not sure if she is or the OP is).

Last edited by sunny5280; 09-20-2012 at 12:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 09-20-2012, 12:52 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,715
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
Buying a car is not basic. Washing yourself is basic. Eating is basic. Buying a car with the 50+ pages (that some of them are 2 times as long as a normal page) of small print is anything but basic.
It's pretty basic. This dumbing down of America is really depressing. Soon these people won't be able to buy a pack of gum without being a victim.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 09-20-2012, 01:08 PM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,942
Mein Auto: 2012 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
My conversation is related to the topic these forums were created for. Politics is not in that list of topics.
It is related when you try to blame the unexperience car buyer for being scam by dealers. Just like some elitist who try to blame the people collecting unemployment for the problem with this country.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 09-20-2012, 01:12 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,715
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
It is related when you try to blame the unexperience car buyer for being scam by dealers.
It has nothing to do with politics. Period.

As for a scam I see no scam. If the OPs SIL was scammed then by all means they should contact the authorities.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 09-20-2012, 02:02 PM
furby076's Avatar
furby076 furby076 is offline
IntarWeb Stalker
Location: 95 Feet Under
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,088
Mein Auto: 2013 335xi M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERdiesel View Post
I'm pretty sure your dealer "included" them in your deal because, you actually negotiated for those items. I highly doubt there was any negotiation on the part of the OP's SIL.

BTW, congrats on the Killi climb Furby, quite an accomplishment!!!
It probably was. In my case when I heard of the maintenance plan I was like "oh thats awesome"...The reason it didn't phase me is that I said I would pay X for my car and not a penny more. So when I got the maintenance I was happy. I think BMW offered it free for those who financed.

Thank you! Kili was awesome. Wish I was there right now

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERdiesel View Post
Yes it is hard for me to fanthom because I would like to believe that people in general aren't so dumb. Unfortunately, it very well might be that i'm the dumb one for being so optimistic.
It's not about dumb, it's about a lack of experience with that situation. Take in the excitement, the lack of experience, slimy tactics, talking about monthly payments - not total price, and a TON of paperwork...what you get is this. The fact the girl caught it a day or two later is impressive. Most people dump the paperwork at home and don't read it.

When I was younger, and by that I mean five years or so ago, I would always get presumptuous about the "stupidity" of people. Then someone pointed out. I come from a major urban area (philadelphia) where there are tons of museums, an incredibly dense concentration of colleges/universities, a slew of libraries and more ways to increase my education. THey also pointed out that I went to college, valued learning (instilled by my dad and mom), and made it a point to be knowledgeable. After that conversation I realized that it's not that people are dumb, it's that they have a lack of knowledge/experience that some of us do.
__________________
"Booberry" -ED 2013 335xi | B45 | ZMM | ZDA |Heated Seats | HK |EBII
My Drive Style

Because I can.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwinter View Post
I agree with furby
Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla twang View Post
Hahahaha, I like you furb, you like to live dangerously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorCook View Post
I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 09-20-2012, 02:09 PM
furby076's Avatar
furby076 furby076 is offline
IntarWeb Stalker
Location: 95 Feet Under
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,088
Mein Auto: 2013 335xi M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
You don't need experience nor a lot of knowledge. What you need are some basic reading and math skills.
My car contract is still on my scanner. The reason I haven't scanned it in is because I don't feel like scanning in 50 pages (some of them double sided, some of them twice as long as a normal page). It's been sitting on my desk for about four years now. Those aren't basic documents. You can call it basic all you want, but it aint. It's long, and it is complex. My eyes started to glaze over it when I read it and I read/modify contracts, technical documents and other written material far more complex then my car contract

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
Which should be a big red flag. I've never had a dealer say this to me. Everyone one has had no problem allowing me to read over the paperwork they're pushing in front of me. They also explain the overall intent of each document.
That's not a red flag. People understand te documents thrown at them are standard. A lot of people also assume the finance person isn't going to lie to them, is going to answer any questions, and help out. Overall intent of each document does not explain the specific print.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
Doesn't matter what they say. What matters is what's on the paperwork.
If I ask you to summarize a document, and you give me miss-information - it definitely matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
Which is why you read the documents which are binding on you.
You are ignoring my other points because you can't be bothered to see that not everyone thinks like you. And when people don't think like you they do other things. THe OPs sister may suck at car buying, but she may be awesome at whatever else she does in life. You may be awesome at car buying, great, and I am sure you suck at something else in life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
I am doing no such thing. The perspective I'm thinking from is: If you're going to be buying the second most expensive thing you're ever likely to buy in your lifetime then you should read and understand the documentation you're signing. It's not rocket science...all it takes it to examine the documents before signing. If one can't be bothered to do that then I have no sympathy for them. People need to stop expecting someone else to look out for their best interests.
That, right there, *IS* exactly what I was saying. You are thinking from YOUR perspective!


BTW this document stuff is what happened (in many cases, not all) during the mortgage crises. Homebuyers relied on their real estate agents and mortgage company to give them good information, and they were fed crap.


I'm not attempting to say she shouldn't go back and ask. But if they refuse she should suck it up as her issue and not blame the dealer (not sure if she is or the OP is).[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
It's pretty basic. This dumbing down of America is really depressing. Soon these people won't be able to buy a pack of gum without being a victim.
__________________
"Booberry" -ED 2013 335xi | B45 | ZMM | ZDA |Heated Seats | HK |EBII
My Drive Style

Because I can.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwinter View Post
I agree with furby
Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla twang View Post
Hahahaha, I like you furb, you like to live dangerously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorCook View Post
I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 09-20-2012, 02:22 PM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,942
Mein Auto: 2012 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
It has nothing to do with politics. Period.

As for a scam I see no scam. If the OPs SIL was scammed then by all means they should contact the authorities.
You are right, it has nothing to do with politics, I was simply trying to point out the parity between your elitist mentality and some of our elitist Politicians.
Maybe scam is the wrong word here, that would imply an illegal activity which there was none. None the less, car dealers try to pull fast ones on their customers all the time. For the inexperience buyers, it is very easy to fall victim their tricks.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 09-20-2012, 02:26 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,715
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
My car contract is still on my scanner. The reason I haven't scanned it in is because I don't feel like scanning in 50 pages (some of them double sided, some of them twice as long as a normal page). It's been sitting on my desk for about four years now. Those aren't basic documents. You can call it basic all you want, but it aint. It's long, and it is complex. My eyes started to glaze over it when I read it and I read/modify contracts, technical documents and other written material far more complex then my car contract
There is certainly a lot of documentation. If the buyer is overwhelmed by the volume then they need to take a step back. Perhaps that means putting off the purchase until they can bring along someone who has more knowledge then they do. Perhaps it means they don't buy the car at all. What it does not mean is they should buy the car and complain about the transaction later.

My point is simple: If you don't understand what you're signing don't sign it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
That's not a red flag. People understand te documents thrown at them are standard. A lot of people also assume the finance person isn't going to lie to them, is going to answer any questions, and help out. Overall intent of each document does not explain the specific print.
If they understand they're standard then they should review them before heading to the dealer to ensure they understand what they say. Likewise the OP hasn't demonstrated any dishonesty on the part of the dealer. I have seen no evidence the finance person lied to them. Every finance person I've dealt with took the time to answer all of my questions. From the buy here pay here all the way up to the most reputable dealerships. Never have I had any of them refuse to clarify any numbers I had questions about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
If I ask you to summarize a document, and you give me miss-information - it definitely matters.
Most certainly...can you demonstrate such is the case here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
You are ignoring my other points because you can't be bothered to see that not everyone thinks like you. And when people don't think like you they do other things. THe OPs sister may suck at car buying, but she may be awesome at whatever else she does in life. You may be awesome at car buying, great, and I am sure you suck at something else in life.
I'm ignoring your other points because people aren't taught medicine in school. Reading and basic math are taught in school. The level necessary is taught early on in grade school.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
That, right there, *IS* exactly what I was saying. You are thinking from YOUR perspective!
I think you're confusing two different trains of thought. My thinking is the buyer needs to be responsible for their actions (or inaction as seems to be the case here). The fact I have experience in buying cars is irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
BTW this document stuff is what happened (in many cases, not all) during the mortgage crises. Homebuyers relied on their real estate agents and mortgage company to give them good information, and they were fed crap.
Yep. And in the vast majority of cases it was just as bogus for that situation as it likely is here.

Last edited by sunny5280; 09-20-2012 at 02:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 09-20-2012, 02:38 PM
ERdiesel ERdiesel is offline
Registered User
Location: NYC/NJ
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 87
Mein Auto: 2011 328i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
It's not about dumb, it's about a lack of experience with that situation. Take in the excitement, the lack of experience, slimy tactics, talking about monthly payments - not total price, and a TON of paperwork...what you get is this. The fact the girl caught it a day or two later is impressive. Most people dump the paperwork at home and don't read it.

When I was younger, and by that I mean five years or so ago, I would always get presumptuous about the "stupidity" of people. Then someone pointed out. I come from a major urban area (philadelphia) where there are tons of museums, an incredibly dense concentration of colleges/universities, a slew of libraries and more ways to increase my education. THey also pointed out that I went to college, valued learning (instilled by my dad and mom), and made it a point to be knowledgeable. After that conversation I realized that it's not that people are dumb, it's that they have a lack of knowledge/experience that some of us do.

Well we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. If I was a gambling man and had to bet on the dumb experienced buyer vs. the smart inexperienced buyer getting the better deal, I would bet on the smart inexperienced buyer every single time. A certain level of intelligence can more than make up for lack of experience regardless of the situation but no amount of experience can really make up for just being a dumb person, especially when the dumb ass is thrust into a situation that was never experienced before.

By the way, having been a longtime manhattan resident it wasn't until recently I got a car (simply not needed in Manhattan) and so I had absolutely zero experience with the car buying/leasing process but did my research, and I knew what price point I wanted the car at with the various options I desired, and danced the dance with the dealer and I settled on the best price that I knew I could get. I came armed with printouts from various sites like KBB and Edmunds, double checking the dealer's pricing on every option, even had print outs from the BMW site regarding current specials/offers and various base fees like destination charge and document fees etc. Once I began comparing pricing from his computer with the information readily available from the internet, he basically resigned himself to the fact that the only way to win my business was to give me a better deal than any of the other dozen dealers could within the metropolitan NYC area. Did I do what I did based on any previous "experience"? NO, because I had none. Did I do what I did based on the fact that i'm not a dumb ass. Certainly yes.

BTW, I even brought my gf to the dealer with me for the sole purpose of doing the "good cop" "bad cop" routine. She played the "bad cop" i.e. disinterested in cars, wondering out loud why we didn't just drive on over to the next BMW dealer who sounded very friendly on the phone, and the one who would only be interested in signing off on the deal at the right price, and i played the "good cop" as in car loving fool who loved everything about the car and showed enough interest to let the dealer know that he wasn't completely wasting his time but ultimately had to work his ass off to get our business. Did we do this from experience? NOPE, cause we didn't have any. Was this from anticipating that the negotiation process with the dealer would most likely be a very adversarial process and you need both the carrot (me) and the stick (gf) to get what you want? YES. Is this something any other person of reasonable intelligence might have done? POSSIBLY. Is this something any other person of sub par intelligence might have done? NEVER. In fact the person of sub par intelligence would have walked out of the dealership wondering why his/her bank account was $24,000 lighter when he/she walked in only wanting to spend $20,000.

FYI.........I went to college in Philly myself (Upenn) so know the area very well. Philadelphia has really cleaned up well since my undergrad years there.

Last edited by ERdiesel; 09-20-2012 at 02:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 09-20-2012, 02:45 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,715
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
You are right, it has nothing to do with politics, I was simply trying to point out the parity between your elitist mentality and some of our elitist Politicians.
Which is completely irrelevant and as such adds nothing of value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Maybe scam is the wrong word here, that would imply an illegal activity which there was none. None the less, car dealers try to pull fast ones on their customers all the time. For the inexperience buyers, it is very easy to fall victim their tricks.
I have not seen any evidence the dealer attempted to pull a fast one on this buyer. Is there anything other than speculation?

Last edited by sunny5280; 09-20-2012 at 02:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 09-20-2012, 03:38 PM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,942
Mein Auto: 2012 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
Which is completely irrelevant and as such adds nothing of value.


I have not seen any evidence the dealer attempted to pull a fast one on this buyer. Is there anything other than speculation?
Your elitist mentality certainly adds to your post, other readers can form their opinion base on that.

Since the OP have not repost, it is also your speculation that the dealer did not try to pull a fast one.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 09-20-2012, 05:45 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
Moderator
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,379
Mein Auto: 2014 328i Sport Line MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERdiesel View Post
Yes it is hard for me to fanthom because I would like to believe that people in general aren't so dumb. Unfortunately, it very well might be that i'm the dumb one for being so optimistic.
You two just don't get it. Not everyone is a genius and totally calm like you and sunny. Buying a car is a stressful experience for many and some dealers take advantage of it. That's the reality even if you don't experience this issue. It doesn't mean they are dumb just that you are close minded. sunny, just give it up that everyone can do things the way you would. What you say is good in theory but for many it's just not reality. .

Last edited by Michael Schott; 09-20-2012 at 05:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 09-20-2012, 06:44 PM
Nordic_Kat's Avatar
Nordic_Kat Nordic_Kat is offline
Omnia moderata ratione
Location: Texas
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,334
Mein Auto: Certified Garage Princess
Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
While for us it may be hard to fathom, you're not thinking of those with less experience/knowledge. First, they throw a ton of paperwork at you - and sometimes say things like "sign now, read later, if you have issues call us". I know this is the case because they told me that when I bought mine. Luckily I had plenty of time and didn't care to wait. Second, sales people (including the finance guys) are in it for themselves (not a bad thing, just what it is) and they will hide things and say what is needed to get that extra sale. They may have pawned it off as taxes, double speak, etc.

Again - you guys are thinking from your perspective, and you need to take a step back and realize that not everyone has that perspective.

My g/f is a doctor, and the amount of crazy stories I hear from her about medical stuff is insane. Similar items where the patient is misinformed by the doctor and there is absolutely NO way the patient would realize this because they are not trained. My girlfriend says its so bad that she refuses to let me go to the doctor without her coming along. I am willing to bet that those of you, who are not in the medical profession, would have no idea what bad care you were receiving...you would sign off on the paperwork, and thank your doctor...in the meantime you got less then stellar care.

The above is no different and not hard to believe.

Either way. If she realized it a day after, going to the dealership and saying take it off is not out of line. The dealership may not want her to do it, and tell her she can't do it, but I'm pretty sure she can do it. The dealership can alternatively negotiate a lower price.
You Go Furby!

I'm the medically trained one in our "family" and I still don't want to go to the doctor when it's serious stuff without SO along because he is so much more critical and isn't afraid to speak up when he wants clarification. I am very detail oriented and didn't miss any of the financial details when I bought the E93, but I did miss the typo the dealership made on our home address. You have no idea what a PITA that was getting corrected in terms of title and licensing. I ABSOLUTELY hate the paperwork of buying a car which is why I tend do wait at least a decade between experiences.
__________________
If your sport doesn't put blood, dirt or grease under your fingernails,
then it's just a game.

Euro Modded|Split Armrest|Rear Foglight Mod|BMW Performance Exhaust|CDV Delete|Shark Fin Antenna Delete|Front Reflector Delete|LUX H8 Angel Eyes|328i|3 Pedals|Das Fahren im Freien| BMWCCA#445793
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 09-20-2012, 07:36 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Denver, CO
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,715
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 4.8i
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Your elitist mentality certainly adds to your post, other readers can form their opinion base on that.
There's nothing elite about expecting someone to take responsibility for their actions. You may be OK with a world of mediocrity but I'm not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Since the OP have not repost, it is also your speculation that the dealer did not try to pull a fast one.
I'm willing to bet it's more likely the dealer was on the up and up and there was no deception.

Last edited by sunny5280; 09-20-2012 at 07:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms