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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 07-11-2013, 12:54 PM
LpMoss7144 LpMoss7144 is offline
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Bimmer VS Benz

I coming to you guys Bimmer owner to see witch brand is more reliable a Bimmer or Benz. Which car last longer?


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  #2  
Old 07-11-2013, 01:10 PM
ae86pwr ae86pwr is offline
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Both are reliable based on how much preventive maintenance you throw at it.

Since most of us don't keep the car forever ... whatever extra money you spend on maintenance only benefit the next guy you sell it to on craigslist....
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  #3  
Old 07-11-2013, 01:12 PM
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Kamdog Kamdog is offline
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Between a BMW and an MB, the more reliable, least costly to maintain car is a Honda.
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  #4  
Old 07-11-2013, 01:18 PM
ae86pwr ae86pwr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post
Between a BMW and an MB, the more reliable, least costly to maintain car is a Honda.
My brother still drives my highschool car.
1985 Corolla GT-S with 385k miles and counting. That's reliable ....

but then .... this guy put 1 million km on his 2003 E class
http://www.leftlanenews.com/greek-ta...s-e-class.html

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  #5  
Old 07-11-2013, 01:26 PM
swajames swajames is offline
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For the vast majority of owners, the reliability of a Benz and a Bimmer is going to be broadly identical - both are pretty good. For most owners most of the time the cars are going to be pretty flawless. These are, by and large, well made reliable cars.
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  #6  
Old 07-11-2013, 01:46 PM
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BiHoTTo115 BiHoTTo115 is offline
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Plan on replacing the wear and tear items early if you want to keep either car for a long period of time (long being 100K+ miles), get codes read as often as you can to check for suspicious shadow codes, change your oil, etc. It's like any other car really.
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  #7  
Old 07-11-2013, 01:59 PM
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Sonicendeavor Sonicendeavor is offline
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If you look at the dependability/reliability surveys from an overall brand perspective, MB is the clear winner. 2013 JD Power has MB in 5th place with BMW in 16th place. That's historically a good showing for BMW, up from 20th place in 2012. It varies by model - the 3 series has good reliability scores whereas the 7 series scores are pretty low.
Bottom line, if build quality and reliability are your main requirements, then Mercedes is the better choice. That's based on facts rather than opinion.
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  #8  
Old 07-11-2013, 04:08 PM
The X Men The X Men is online now
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What is more interesting is how wide that JD power bell curve is. Between 5th place and 16th place, there is only a difference of 18 problem out of a 100 owners in 3 years or another way to look at is 100 Mercedes owners having 13% less problem than the 100 BMW owners in 3 year on average. I am not sure what the percent of error is in a survey like this, but 13% could very well fall within that percentage of error. What one should really take away from that JD Power survey is not that MB is a lot more reliable than BMW, but the whole auto industry as a whole is making more reliable cars.
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  #9  
Old 07-11-2013, 05:07 PM
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Sonicendeavor Sonicendeavor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
What is more interesting is how wide that JD power bell curve is. Between 5th place and 16th place, there is only a difference of 18 problem out of a 100 owners in 3 years or another way to look at is 100 Mercedes owners having 13% less problem than the 100 BMW owners in 3 year on average. I am not sure what the percent of error is in a survey like this, but 13% could very well fall within that percentage of error. What one should really take away from that JD Power survey is not that MB is a lot more reliable than BMW, but the whole auto industry as a whole is making more reliable cars.
The margin of error is 7% and would not be all positive for BMW and all negative for MB. It's most likely a wash.
I work in the industry and a 13% differential is considered a big number. For BMW that's approximately 40,000 more problems, which translates to a significant competitive disadvantage in terms of warranty costs.
The silver lining is that the 7 series is 74% below average in reliability, so even though the volume is relautvely low, it drags the brand score down. Still, back to the the OP's question, BMW has some work to do in order to catch up.
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Last edited by Sonicendeavor; 07-11-2013 at 05:08 PM.
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  #10  
Old 07-11-2013, 05:33 PM
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Simplicity is the best path to get reliability in a German car.

Skip the following and the brand won't matter:
Turbos
AWD
Auto trans
NAV system
electronic anything
power anything
sport anything
low profile tires
etc

So basically, it's the formaula for a Toyota Corolla.

If you don't want to go that far, get a lightly used CPO BMW 328i with the I6 and least amount of options and will get a car with a 100kmi warranty will also last for a pretty long time.
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  #11  
Old 07-11-2013, 06:20 PM
neilsarkar neilsarkar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Simplicity is the best path to get reliability in a German car.

Skip the following and the brand won't matter:
Turbos
AWD
Auto trans
NAV system
electronic anything
power anything
sport anything
low profile tires
etc

So basically, it's the formaula for a Toyota Corolla.

If you don't want to go that far, get a lightly used CPO BMW 328i with the I6 and least amount of options and will get a car with a 100kmi warranty will also last for a pretty long time.
Sigh! What would you advise someone who likes a lot of toys in his/her German car? Perpetual leasing?


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  #12  
Old 07-11-2013, 06:23 PM
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Sonicendeavor Sonicendeavor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Simplicity is the best path to get reliability in a German car.

Skip the following and the brand won't matter:
Turbos
AWD
Auto trans
NAV system
electronic anything
power anything
sport anything
low profile tires
etc

So basically, it's the formaula for a Toyota Corolla.
Or a 1968 BMW 2002.
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  #13  
Old 07-11-2013, 06:32 PM
sb535 sb535 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonicendeavor View Post
The margin of error is 7% and would not be all positive for BMW and all negative for MB. It's most likely a wash.
I work in the industry and a 13% differential is considered a big number. For BMW that's approximately 40,000 more problems, which translates to a significant competitive disadvantage in terms of warranty costs.
The silver lining is that the 7 series is 74% below average in reliability, so even though the volume is relautvely low, it drags the brand score down. Still, back to the the OP's question, BMW has some work to do in order to catch up.
Agree but it runs in cycles. In the E39 days MB was making an embarrassing array of quality miscues. Ask anyone who owns a 2002-2004 MB and most would say there was a real lapse in quality..
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  #14  
Old 07-11-2013, 06:34 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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  #15  
Old 07-11-2013, 06:49 PM
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dunderhi dunderhi is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilsarkar View Post
Sigh! What would you advise someone who likes a lot of toys in his/her German car? Perpetual leasing?
Pretty much. I swap out cars 2-4yrs whether I buy or lease. I've only got 6300 miles on my 6er and I just got done configuring a Maserati GranTurismo - just out of curiosity, so I'm helpless.
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  #16  
Old 07-11-2013, 08:22 PM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Simplicity is the best path to get reliability in a German car.

Skip the following and the brand won't matter:
Turbos
AWD
Auto trans
NAV system
electronic anything
power anything
sport anything
low profile tires
etc

So basically, it's the formaula for a Toyota Corolla.

If you don't want to go that far, get a lightly used CPO BMW 328i with the I6 and least amount of options and will get a car with a 100kmi warranty will also last for a pretty long time.
What fun is that? Exactly, might as well buy a Toyota or Honda.

I've had 3 straight Acuras and they've all been bullet proof- but not half as much fun as the new X3. I am concerned with mediocre reliability ratings for BMW's.
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  #17  
Old 07-11-2013, 08:32 PM
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dunderhi dunderhi is online now
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Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
What fun is that? Exactly, might as well buy a Toyota or Honda.

I've had 3 straight Acuras and they've all been bullet proof- but not half as much fun as the new X3. I am concerned with mediocre reliability ratings for BMW's.
I agree it's no fun, but the OP asked about reliability...
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  #18  
Old 07-11-2013, 09:21 PM
DavidNJ DavidNJ is offline
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If you take out the 19" runflat tire problems, they seem pretty similar. Service costs are similar if you are paying, although BMW includes full maintenance and MB has a scheduled maintenance option.

Owners of both brands I've talked to love their cars. The only complaints, and you read some big rants on this forum, are the problems with 19" runflats failing and damaging the wheels. I think it will be interesting to see what happens at Infiniti as the 2014 Q50 sport models have 19" runflat tires.

Any specific model could have problems, but neither car has a low quality epidemic. Owners of both brands like their cars and both brands have no qualms selling 40k used versions with CPO warranties.
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  #19  
Old 07-11-2013, 09:26 PM
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Keepittrill Keepittrill is offline
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Bimmer VS Benz

If you're asking about maintenance, you can't afford it...

I'm kidding, but yeah, it all depends on how you treat and maintains the car.


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Old 07-11-2013, 09:40 PM
DavidNJ DavidNJ is offline
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Originally Posted by Keepittrill View Post
If you're asking about maintenance, you can't afford it...

I'm kidding, but yeah, it all depends on how you treat and maintains the car.


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As the car gets older, depreciation per year goes down, but maintenance goes up.

We have a 110k mile E-class. I estimate we pay $2500-3000/year in maintenance. There is always some extraordinary and expensive repair—differential fluid, brakes, fuel injection parts—that bring the bill up. However, depreciation is now down to maybe $2k-3k/year from $8k-9k/yr in the first three years.

Often, older cars, especially expensive ones, don't get maintained well. When the retail price becomes $15k, the new buyer often avoids service at $125/hr. However, if you do the maintenance, costs of ownership don't drop that much.
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  #21  
Old 07-11-2013, 11:12 PM
F10inSD F10inSD is offline
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I found in the few BMWs i've owned its luck of the draw. Sometimes you get a car built on a good day at the factory and sometimes its built on Friday at 445pm.

Buy a BMW and see how it goes... you're covered for the first 4 years. If you got a good car and want to keep it then go ahead, if you got a problem child then sell it and get a newer one. After all you'll have the 4 years covered again.
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  #22  
Old 07-11-2013, 11:44 PM
HMtheJJ HMtheJJ is offline
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poor

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  #23  
Old 07-12-2013, 12:21 AM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Benz might be more reliable. And that would most likely be the only place you might find the equivalent/near equivalent priced Benz to be superior to (or even getting near) the F10.
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  #24  
Old 07-12-2013, 12:32 AM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Originally Posted by HMtheJJ View Post
get a LS, with all the features BMW and MB can possible have and more, yet you still have the MOST reliable car in the industry.

you don't have to settle for entry level Toyota like someone's biased reply suggests; a fully loaded Avalon would have most of the features in a BMW and MB without ANY of their usual reliability shortcomings.

some ppl on BMW forums are so biased, and ill informed, thinking their unreliable German automobiles are so superior to the rest. how about owning more cars before you dishing out equally ill informed replies.
Sorry but you'd have to pay me to actually "have", take care of, and constantly have to see/sit in an LS. I've had plenty of Lexus experience and they're not my bag. Hence why I spent my money on an "unreliable" German Car. Between the M-B's BMW/s I've and my family have had, there have been very minimal issues. The worst was my '06 E350 which had little nagging issues regularly for a car I had for not too long.

I still didn't go looking for Lexus' after I left it (got 2 more E Classes).
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  #25  
Old 07-12-2013, 03:33 AM
Munich77 Munich77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilsarkar View Post
Sigh! What would you advise someone who likes a lot of toys in his/her German car? Perpetual leasing?


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Or extended waranty....
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