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BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #1  
Old 06-12-2013, 07:29 AM
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3ismagic# 3ismagic# is offline
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Another fuel additive thread? Really? Are you kidding me dude?

Yes it is.
I've read through the threads here and elsewhere and seem to be more confused. I'm a smart guy,I really am. I have a PhD and 2-dozen peer reviewed papers under my belt. I understand very complex statistical models. However, for those of us who only took a semester of organic chemistry what conclusions can we draw?

I have 16k miles on my D in 2 years of driving. I do mostly in-town driving. So far I have not had a single whiff of problems with my car.

Right now I'm stuck vacillating between two positions:

1) the car is fine, if it ain't broke don't fix and go and screw it up by adding junk to the fuel
2) dude it's only a matter of time, do something preventative and start now with some additives to minimize the chance of problems.

What's a paranoid diesel noob without a phd in chemical engineering and his own lab who loves his car and wants to keep it forever to do?
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  #2  
Old 06-12-2013, 07:44 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Drive more: they seem to like highway miles rather than urban - I drive 18K miles per year compared to your 8K.
Read less: too much stressing on this/that. Driving more relieves stress.
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  #3  
Old 06-12-2013, 09:21 AM
txagbmw txagbmw is offline
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I'll go back years ago when pushed all the gas additives, oil additives. Did they do any good probably not. Most mechanics said change your oil regularly and use a good fuel.
Did use some Products in Corvettes* and Trans Ams*. Never noticed a difference. So could the same be said about all the diesel cure all's now ???? There use to be
a term, take it out on the road and blow it out. Since seldom drive my cars, (had a 10 335i, just traded 11,000 miles), I need fuel stabilizers lol. Live in a small town.
?? If diesel fuel has a shelf life like gas.

* On the old Quadjets, vettes, elcaminos, trans ams, seems they just had to go in

Last edited by txagbmw; 06-12-2013 at 03:16 PM.
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  #4  
Old 06-12-2013, 09:51 AM
rdorman rdorman is offline
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The PHD thinking.... Get it. Over thinking the issue. You know the answer just seeking affirmation.
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  #5  
Old 06-12-2013, 12:11 PM
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335dFan 335dFan is offline
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Who knows? It's like taking Glucosamine/Chondroitin for your joints. Once you start you're afraid to stop.

I use the Power Service stuff, 4 oz every full tank, one version in the summer and the other version in the winter. I also add another Power Service product every fourth tank, another 4 oz worth.

Winter months: PS diesel fuel supplement + cetane
Spring, summer fall: PS Diesel Kleen + Cetane
Every four tanks: diesel clear (PS Clear-Diesel Fuel & Tank Cleaner)

Have about 17,000 miles on mine. I guess eventually I will either know it didn't help (or maybe it slowed bad stuff happening) or I will never know if it did help.

Without controlled tests and some null hypothesis to disprove, how will we ever know?

The only additive I ever really knew worked was STP. When my BMW 2002 got old and tired, I had to run Quaker State 40W Racing Oil and STP in it to keep the oil pressure up. When I didn't run the STP, I was in trouble.
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  #6  
Old 06-12-2013, 12:45 PM
ChasR ChasR is offline
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I'm an Optilube XPD user. Without a control it's hard to know if it helps. My data indicates a slight improvement in fuel mileage since I started using it. 32.6 before, 33.2 after.
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  #7  
Old 06-12-2013, 01:33 PM
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BB_cuda BB_cuda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txagbmw View Post
There use to be a term, take it out on the road and blow it out.
I call that an Italian tune up . My girl friend drives a pretty humble 3.8L Mustang and normally babies it. I occasionally take it out on the freeway for a triple digit cleanout. She is Italian and i arrived at the term from the combo.
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  #8  
Old 06-12-2013, 03:09 PM
txagbmw txagbmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
I call that an Italian tune up . My girl friend drives a pretty humble 3.8L Mustang and normally babies it. I occasionally take it out on the freeway for a triple digit cleanout. She is Italian and i arrived at the term from the combo.
In the days of good ole Premium leaded gas, No cats, you could see the results coming out
the back.
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  #9  
Old 06-12-2013, 03:25 PM
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3ismagic# 3ismagic# is offline
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Another fuel additive thread? Really? Are you kidding me dude?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
I call that an Italian tune up . My girl friend drives a pretty humble 3.8L Mustang and normally babies it. I occasionally take it out on the freeway for a triple digit cleanout. She is Italian and i arrived at the term from the combo.
Hate to break it to you but that term has been around for a good while.


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  #10  
Old 06-12-2013, 04:06 PM
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finnbmw finnbmw is offline
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TDIClub forum has an active discussion about fuel additives. Found this interesting real life testing on the Optilube products http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=383811

For a quick summary of the results, see post #3. Seems like the products, especially the XPD, does have a positive impact on MPG

Last edited by finnbmw; 06-12-2013 at 05:30 PM.
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  #11  
Old 06-12-2013, 06:55 PM
d geek d geek is online now
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I've been following that thread on tdiclub. quite unscientific study. the guy bought the stuff and now wants to validate his actions

If I had to recommend an additive I'd go with Power Service DFS year round. That company has invested quite a bit in quality control and testing to ensure they have an effective product. OptiLube has done no such thing and doesn't plan to anytime soon based on what I was told by their sales guy:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=360027
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  #12  
Old 06-12-2013, 07:25 PM
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finnbmw finnbmw is offline
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Thank you for the link, interesting discussion.
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  #13  
Old 06-12-2013, 10:07 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
I've been following that thread on tdiclub. quite unscientific study. the guy bought the stuff and now wants to validate his actions

If I had to recommend an additive I'd go with Power Service DFS year round. That company has invested quite a bit in quality control and testing to ensure they have an effective product. OptiLube has done no such thing and doesn't plan to anytime soon based on what I was told by their sales guy:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=360027
I've heard good things from others about PS but apparently they keep their total data to themselves, only publishing single sample results, if that.

To be fair, the chemical composition of raw diesel varies by batch and most suppliers tailor the additive package to match these properties so its difficult to generalize and know how much/what type of additional additive to use, which is why some of us don't use additives routinely but trust a well known provider (s.a. Chevron/Texaco) and stick with a high volume clean trustworthy station to supply good fuel to begin with.

But that doesn't mean that if there was something to hang one's scientific/statistically valid hat on that actually has a measurable, worthwhile benefit, I wouldn't come on board. I'd like my d to go a long way without problems just like the rest of 'em.

Cheers.

PL
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Last edited by Pierre Louis; 06-12-2013 at 10:13 PM.
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  #14  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:29 AM
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Axel61 Axel61 is online now
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My car is built date 6/11 and I got it just before Independance Day I hv 30k on it here in Puerto Rico YIKES!! Yes I do a lot of running around and I spank her like a to cent whore, I hv had issues with SCR crytalization and ox sensor gone bad under warranty i hv a flash by RENNtech and WAGNER IC with over 450 lbs of torque on the wheels. I use AMSOIL Cetane Booster and Diesel injector cleaner. Im by no means i am what you are but all i can tell you is stay with the car, i love mines and cannot seem to ever get rid of it!!! Enjoy it!!
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  #15  
Old 06-13-2013, 07:12 AM
d geek d geek is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
I've heard good things from others about PS but apparently they keep their total data to themselves, only publishing single sample results, if that.

To be fair, the chemical composition of raw diesel varies by batch and most suppliers tailor the additive package to match these properties so its difficult to generalize and know how much/what type of additional additive to use, which is why some of us don't use additives routinely but trust a well known provider (s.a. Chevron/Texaco) and stick with a high volume clean trustworthy station to supply good fuel to begin with.

But that doesn't mean that if there was something to hang one's scientific/statistically valid hat on that actually has a measurable, worthwhile benefit, I wouldn't come on board. I'd like my d to go a long way without problems just like the rest of 'em.

Cheers.

PL
I understand what you're saying about publishing statistically significant data. Evidently PS doesn't see the reward vs risk in doing so. My understanding is that they are very wary of making blanket claims about lubricity improvements because there are so many variables from one batch to the next of fuel. here is about the most bold claim they will make in writing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PS FAQ
Slickdiesel® Lubricator is a proprietary Power Service diesel fuel lubricity additive that is added to many of our products to increase the lubrication properties of diesel fuel. This increase in lubricity will increase the life of fuel pumps and injectors. The fuel pump manufacturers (Bosch, Delphi, Denso, Siemens and Stanadyne) consider fuel lubricity to be the most crucial property of diesel fuel as it relates to reduction of pump and injector wear. The Engine Manufacturer Association (EMA) has stated that, “Shortened life of engine components such as fuel injection pumps and unit injectors usually can be ascribed to a lack of fuel lubricity and hence is a concern to engine manufacturers.” Slickdiesel® Lubricator meets the new ASTM HFRR 520 Lubricity Specifications for the United States and the more stringent European Specification of 460 in most fuels.
Here is some info that PS shared with me on specific fuel tests they performed. I was duly impressed by the results:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=196059

I agree with you about using the best available fuel. That's why I fuel up exclusively at Chevron
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  #16  
Old 06-13-2013, 07:54 AM
TDIwyse TDIwyse is offline
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http://www.lubrizol.com/9040Zer0/IDI...EEsslingen.pdf

This might be interesting to some of you. A well controlled study on common rail fuel injector deposits and impact to power output, as well as evidence of deposit control additive capability.

I use additives for "insurance" on lubricity, moisture and deposit issues.
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  #17  
Old 06-13-2013, 09:11 AM
totitan totitan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
I understand what you're saying about publishing statistically significant data. Evidently PS doesn't see the reward vs risk in doing so. My understanding is that they are very wary of making blanket claims about lubricity improvements because there are so many variables from one batch to the next of fuel. here is about the most bold claim they will make in writing:


Here is some info that PS shared with me on specific fuel tests they performed. I was duly impressed by the results:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=196059

I agree with you about using the best available fuel. That's why I fuel up exclusively at Chevron
Without independent verification the PS claims are just that....claims. They are about as valid as the claims seen on late nite infomercials. In the one independent test of diesel additives PS did not do well at all. You are on record as stating the testing Im referring to was flawed. I would rather trust those findings, with its so called flaws, than believe unverified PS claims.

BTW regarding where to buy fuel, the only thing that matters is volume. I'll buy diesel from a high volume independent every time over a Chevron dealer who occasionally gets a load of diesel.
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  #18  
Old 06-13-2013, 10:00 AM
d geek d geek is online now
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totitan-
I only hope that sometime in the near future OptiLube will publish meaningful data on their own product, or a good independent study will be done. Then we can rest easy that they are as good as the Spicer test indicated. The reason I am so doubtful about the Spicer test report is because that testing was done on fuel from the refinery as opposed to what come out of the retail pump. These additives are designed to be used on fuel that already has an additive package applied at the distribution terminal. To test them on refinery fuel is to test them on something you would never see in your car. Secondly, the OptiLube sample provided for that test did not come from a retail outlet, but was instead supplied by OptiLube. This should not be overlooked, because who knows if it was altered in someway to influence the testing.

I would propose performing tests on the most popular diesel fuel additives:
Power Service
Stanadyne
FPPF
OptiLube
Tests should be performed a minimum of 3 times on each sample in addition to baseline fuels obtained in at least 3 locations. So a total of 45 tests if my math is correct. Testing would be done by a certified laboratory and the report would be prepared by that lab.
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  #19  
Old 06-13-2013, 10:12 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Another fuel additive thread? Really? Are you kidding me dude?

Little did I know that buying the diesel was going to expose me to a whole new debate. For years, I have been reading about BMW favorite topics Ike:
- Should I stick with the BMW recommended 15k oil change interval for this car that I love and want to keep for the rest of my life?
- why did my delicate auto trans running its original fluid die at 120k miles when BMW says it's a life time fill?
- Why does BMW use cheap plastic cooling system parts that can kill my engine and should I replace them preventively?
- What's the best oil / brake pad / tire / shock absorber for my car?
And my favorite:
- do you think those 22 inch wheels i got for a steal and fitted with the cheapest tire I could find look hot on my 6 series?

I was getting bored with these topics so the whole "Should I use additives to make up for fuel quality differences between the US and the rest of the civilized world although BMW says I should not?" is great stuff. Well worth the price of admission!

While this is sounding sarcastic I am actually learning a lot about diesel fuel, cetane, lubricity, various studies and methods applied, pros and cons of using additives or not, as well as differences between additives. So on a serious note, thank you to everyone who has studied this and has info to share. I have learned a lot, formed my opinion, and know what I will be doing with my X5.


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