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7 Series - F01 / F02 (2009 - 2015)
The 5th generation F01/F02 BMW 7 Series flagship forum. The redesigned 7 series leads off the BMW Fxx chassis code, offering an 8 speed automatic transmission and all turbocharged engine options.

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  #1  
Old 07-10-2016, 10:48 AM
bigpunone bigpunone is offline
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Customer Care Package" Please help" Otto's BMW Ottawa screwed me!!!! BMW 2009 750LI

This is my first post on this forum. I got a 2009 BMW 750 li E 63 that had a problem with the engine about 3 months ago. I took the Car to Otto's BMW which is located in Ottawa Ontario.They told me that the engine will need to be replaced A.S.A.P. I took there advice and bought a second hand engine from LKQ Canada. . It cost me an arm and a leg. Long story short the same symptoms started happening to my new-Used engine. I parked the car instantly and started doing research and found out that i am not the only one that got F**k** hard by the dealer. I went back to the dealer and told me that they will not fix it because i installed a used engine in the car and warranty is void. Remind you that this is the same dealer that told me that i need a new engine in the first place and never mentioned anything about a recall or a Customer care package in the first place. The guy i spoke to was a "service Manager at OTTO's BMW ". He wanted me to give him the vin off the new engine which i did. He called me back and told me BMW Canada said you are not covered because the engine is not the original engine. He was so rude and so disrespectful. He blamed me for not buying the engine from him in the first place. I recorded every call that i had with him and have it for proof. I need to get this guy fired if i can.

I then called BMW Canada my-Self . After Two hours off arguing they told me that the dealership never contacted them about nothing and the last time they did was in 2013. I am waiting for a someone to call me back after i escalated the matter. Its been 3 days now. I don't no what to do. Please guys....... i Need Help.......

I don't no why BMW is doing this to their customers in the first place. They are losing there image fast. I wish i did my research before i installed the second engine my self and saved me over 12'000$.I also forgot to mention that i still have the second engine in my garage just encase they use that excuse against me. I am going to make sure i take this to my local news. I hope BMW CANADA sees This thread and does something about it. They no they screwed up big time and blaming there customers for it.

Last edited by bigpunone; 07-10-2016 at 10:51 AM. Reason: detail
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  #2  
Old 07-10-2016, 11:00 AM
bigpunone bigpunone is offline
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DID ANYONE GO THREW THIS HEADACHE WITH THERE BMW DEALER. I need as much help as i can get.
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Old 07-10-2016, 01:49 PM
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jimmysab133 jimmysab133 is offline
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Sorry to hear of all your troubles. I know right now it all feels difficult but I'm sure some folks on here can help. First off, a few questions.

Did the dealer provide any paperwork when they stated you need a new engine? Even if it doesn't say anything specific about the engine, it will be a starting point for your case against them.

What type of warranty are you referencing? From you stated, you swapped the used engine on your own so I'm unsure how the dealer would warranty that work.

Do you still have the original engine (complete)?

Did the dealer at any point acknowledge the CCP even after you swapped engines?

What exactly were your engine problems before the engine swap? Loss of power, drivetrain malfunction, sluggishness, etc.

It will be a long road to recouping anything here from what I can tell, but this is the right place to get as much info as possible.
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Old 07-10-2016, 02:19 PM
bigpunone bigpunone is offline
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I do not have warranty on the car. I still have the engine in my garage. I do have a bill saying i need a new engine from ottos bmw. I am not referring to a warranty. Its a package BMW is offering to there customers called " customer care package". You can only get it if you ask for it. Let me know if you jeed anything else.

Thanks

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  #5  
Old 07-10-2016, 03:06 PM
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jimmysab133 jimmysab133 is offline
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Ok, that "bill" is where you need to begin then. The CCP (Customer Care Pkg) has nothing to do with swapping out the engine which is why I sought clarification on what you meant by warranty. You need to carefully confirm with the dealer that they recommended an engine swap -- doesn't matter whether or not they connected that to the CCP because you did the work yourself. At this point, I'm thinking you have to put the old engine back and then get them to perform the CCP and pray that in the process they figure out what else might be wrong. In fact, I would even deny ever swapping the engine out if I am you.
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Old 07-10-2016, 04:19 PM
bigpunone bigpunone is offline
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I think its to late for that. They already have it in the records. But it does not make sence at all. They could have told me something ahead off time. Now i am facing the same exact problem i had from the start.

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Old 07-10-2016, 08:30 PM
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jimmysab133 jimmysab133 is offline
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Well, if you can show that the dealer somehow connected the CCP to an engine swap you will have more leverage. My advice is to learn everything you can about the CCP itself so you can have informed conversations with the dealer going forward. I would print out the CCP bulletin (PDF) and go there in person for a sit down. Be respectful and direct, devoid of as much emotion as possible. You can lay into them after they've agreed to work with you.
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Old 07-10-2016, 08:30 PM
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jimmysab133 jimmysab133 is offline
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Oh and here's the best CCP thread on this forum....grab some coffee, it's a long one.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=818445
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Old 07-11-2016, 05:31 PM
bigpunone bigpunone is offline
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Just wanted to keep you guys updated.

I went to Another BMW dealer in Ottawa and explained my situation to the manager.
He told me he will look into it personally and will forward my problem to the district manager and will look into it.

The district manager is in charge off all the BMW Dealers around the Ottawa area including Otto's BMW which F**k** me hard.
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Old 07-12-2016, 08:35 PM
bigpunone bigpunone is offline
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I finally got some information. The district manager is siding with Otto's BMW. The New reason they don't want to do the CCP now is because the new engine i installed came from an accident car and has no warranty. I changed the first engine because they told me i had to. I have the receipt and all the phone calls saved and recorded. He also told me that he contacted BMW Canada and they refused me completely. I personalty called BMW Canada and There was no record off him calling them. I am still waiting for a manager to call me back. Its been over 4 days Now. I don't no what to do. There has to be something that i can do to that dealer ship.

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Old 07-12-2016, 09:13 PM
aom aom is offline
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So wait, what was the ORIGINAL problem with the engine that required that the whole thing be replaced?

Also, why would you spend 12k on a 7 year old car? If I needed 12k on my car, I'd be turning it into a parts car or bringing to an Indy to do the work for me, def. not a dealership.

The problem is see is that you opted for a used engine with no warranty or guarantee (which is kind of weird, tbh), but since that's the case, there wouldn't be much recourse. It would have to have been a workmanship issue that caused the replacement engine to not work for you to get anything from the dealership. If they put it in correctly (which isn't THAT hard to do), then tried to start it, but there's a problem.. then the problem is with the engine, not them.
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:50 PM
acefuture acefuture is offline
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Your original post isn't clear about many important details. Did you buy this car used three months ago? Where did you buy the car (BMW dealer, independent dealer, private party)? Did the car have the engine problem when you bought it? If so, why did you buy it? Did the seller offer any warranty at all (30 days, 90 days) or was it strictly "As Is"? Did you get the car inspected before you bought it? What exactly is the problem you experienced on your original engine and what is the problem you have now on the salvaged engine? Who installed the second hand engine in your car? Some independent mechanic or did you literally do it yourself?

What is it exactly that you want BMW to do for you? Perform the "CCP Service" on your salvaged engine?

If an independent mechanic installed the second hand engine and you bought it through him (and he recommended you do this), then you should be dealing with him about your problem. If you purchased the second hand engine on your own and paid some independent mechanic to install it then I don't think you have any recourse at all. The independent mechanic, at your direction, installed an engine you gave him. He can blame the salvage supplier for a bad engine.
If you installed the engine yourself, LKQ does have a six month or 6,000 mile warranty on used engines.

Apparently you independently installed a salvaged engine in a seven year old, out of warranty 750i. You've done major surgery on the car. BMW didn't supply the engine and BMW didn't do the work. You are at least the second owner, maybe the third. I can't believe I'm going to say this, but....I don't think it's reasonable to expect BMW to do anything for you now. I know this has cost you a lot of money, time and inconvenience. I know this isn't what you want to hear. However before you started down this road you should have gotten a second opinion (from a different BMW dealer and/or independent mechanic) about your original problem and your idea of using a salvaged engine and the consequences of doing so. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say, but it appears you didn't research this enough before making such a drastic, expensive decision.

I hope you can get some satisfactory resolution and I wish you well. Good Luck.

Last edited by acefuture; 07-13-2016 at 02:03 AM.
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Old 07-13-2016, 12:35 AM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acefuture View Post
I'm not clear about what you said in your original post. Who installed the second hand engine in your car? Was it Otto's BMW dealership or some independent mechanic? I can't imagine a BMW dealer would install an independently sourced second hand engine. However, maybe it's possible.

If Otto's installed the engine then they should warranty their work and help you out. However if an independent mechanic installed the second hand engine and you bought it through him, then you should be dealing with him about your current problem. A third possibility is you purchased the second hand engine on your own and paid some independent mechanic to install the engine you purchased. If you are dealing with this third situation, I don't think you have any recourse at all. The second hand engine has no guarantee/ warranty. The independent mechanic at your direction installed an engine you gave him. He can blame the engine supplier for a bad engine.
The posts dont sound like the BMW dealer did it... in fact the posts sound like the OP did it himself (or at the very least took it somewhere other than the dealer to do it).

OP WHO exactly did your engine swap? Its clear that you did not get the engine from Otto's, but it came from a damaged car (saving you money you said).

If the dealer did not do the engine swap, it does not matter if they recommended it or not. If they recommended it but they did not do it, they have no control over how it was done, or by whom, or the quality of the part. You are angry because their recommendation did not work, but if they did not actually do the work you can not hold them to it.

Thats pretty cut and dried actually, at least in the US.
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  #14  
Old 07-13-2016, 04:21 AM
bigpunone bigpunone is offline
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The point is most off those engines are or will have a problem in the near future because the way BMW built them. I bought the engine from LKQ and had it installed at private mechanic.
This problem will keep on accruing if it not fixed right from BMW. Why does it matter in the first place if the engine came out off an accident car? He basically ("OTTo'S BMW") wanted me to spend 30 GS on an new engine so he can make his 60% profit. I also took it to them in the first place to find out what was wrong with the car. They told me i need a new engine because the Chain is loose and the engine got damaged because off it. This is were the CCP was suppose to kick in. I never got offered that package at all. I took it to an expert in the first place.
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Old 07-13-2016, 06:40 AM
Poncherello Poncherello is offline
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I would have to agree with others....how can you expect BMW to perform warranty/recall work on a motor from a wrecked car that they didn't provide or install? I think you should have dome some more work to determine what your options were prior to replacing the original motor.
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Old 07-13-2016, 10:51 AM
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jimmysab133 jimmysab133 is offline
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Originally Posted by bigpunone View Post
They told me i need a new engine because the Chain is loose and the engine got damaged because off it. This is were the CCP was suppose to kick in. I never got offered that package at all. I took it to an expert in the first place.

This is the most relevant point at this juncture. You chose not to have them do the engine swap (rightly so given the price tag). However, choosing to have it done elsewhere then expecting to hold them (Ottos) accountable is unrealistic.

I think it would help us help you if you posted the copy of report from Ottos where they made the recommendation. Based on what you said about the timing chain; which is related to the CCP, it's possible they didn't mention the CCP specifically because the engine itself was now the problem even if caused by the CCP issues. From what I have read, some owners were able to negotiate reduced pricing for complete engine swaps when done by the dealer in conjunction with the CCP.
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Old 07-13-2016, 11:02 AM
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Bimmer32 Bimmer32 is offline
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If BMW or affiliated dealers did not install the engine, then the CCP does not apply to any installation by third-party mechanic shops not authorized by BMW. Even if LKQ is an authorized BMW "reseller" which I do not think so, they also have to be an "authorized" installer. Otherwise, no warranty from BMW and that includes the CCP.

To put in it in another context, if you bought a refurbished Denon audio receiver from an authorized Denon reseller or Denon themselves, then the warranty is honored. But if you bought it from an unauthorized reseller like an independent reseller, then you get no warranty from Denon. The logic follows that if you get your equipment repaired not at an authorized repair shop, then warranty is not honored.
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Last edited by Bimmer32; 07-13-2016 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 07-13-2016, 01:41 PM
aom aom is offline
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I have to agree with others. You took your car to another mechanic to replace the engine, the engine doesn't work (for whatever reason), that's now between you and that mechanic. BMW has NOTHING to do with this.

Also, we'd need to confirm this, but I'm not sure if the CCP applies "officially" in Canada? Can any other Canada members chime in to confirm if they had any work done under a "CCP." For instance, I know in many markets, there is no CCP.

That said, your car was probably already out of warranty when the chain issue occurred. 1) If BMW does honor a CCP in Canada, and since the timing chain is part of that if applicable, then there might have been recourse there. Otto BMW should have in the least let you know about it and then tried to work a claim with BMW. 2) If BMW does not recognize the CCP in Canada, then I'm afraid you have little recourse as far as that goes.

In either case, since you chose to get the engine replaced someplace else, you have effectively invalidated any warranty or good-will service that BMW would or should offer. It's actually not even about the fact that your replacement engine was in an accident (though that's reason enough to invalidate a warranty or goodwill work), but the fact that the work done can result in so many other issues.
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Old 07-13-2016, 02:00 PM
veery veery is offline
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Sadly, you made a series of poor choices, failed to inform yourself of the prevailing issues common to your car, and put a bunch of money into it that you will likely have to accept has now gone bye bye. Had you come here FIRST with some questions about what options you might pursue, you might have been able to avoid this unhappy result. It's too bad really, and I feel for you, but I think you are going to have to face the truth - you took a risk and lost. I would bet all of us at some time have taken a financial hit because we acted w/o sufficient information and made an impulsive choice which came back and bit us in the butt. I know I have. That's how we learn. It hurts. It sucks. But that's the way things are. I'd make every effort to get rid of that car and move on.
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by veery View Post
sadly, you made a series of poor choices, failed to inform yourself of the prevailing issues common to your car, and put a bunch of money into it that you will likely have to accept has now gone bye bye. Had you come here first with some questions about what options you might pursue, you might have been able to avoid this unhappy result. It's too bad really, and i feel for you, but i think you are going to have to face the truth - you took a risk and lost. I would bet all of us at some time have taken a financial hit because we acted w/o sufficient information and made an impulsive choice which came back and bit us in the butt. I know i have. That's how we learn. It hurts. It sucks. But that's the way things are. I'd make every effort to get rid of that car and move on.

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