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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 09-23-2012, 04:29 PM
cneighbor cneighbor is online now
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Less brake dust?

Is it just my imagination or does my 2012 e92 produce less brake dust than my 2006 e90? I've had the new car for about a month now and noticed that me rims stay pretty clean. Did BMW change its brake pads on the newer 3 series?

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  #2  
Old 09-23-2012, 05:00 PM
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My 2011 335is also has little to no brake dust.
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:35 PM
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BMW reforulated their brake pads in 2009 to not dust much as compared to pads previously. I think the new pads retain the same performance but with about 90% less dust...
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:15 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by fun2drive View Post
BMW reforulated their brake pads in 2009 to not dust much as compared to pads previously. I think the new pads retain the same performance but with about 90% less dust...
Apr 2009, mine - lots o'dust, but plenty o'bite.

Don't mind the dust when performance is this pleasant but, yup, must clean wheels regularly. Inconvenience from time to time.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:49 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cneighbor View Post
Is it just my imagination or does my 2012 e92 produce less brake dust than my 2006 e90? I've had the new car for about a month now and noticed that me rims stay pretty clean. Did BMW change its brake pads on the newer 3 series?

...and before anyone chimes in with a "search" comment I didn't want to. I was craving the interaction.
Pad formulation was changed with the 9/2009+ builds. BMW relinquished its claim to most dirty wheels with the new formulation. Braking performance is only impacted at the margins. One could argue that if you are wanting better performance while tracking the car, you should be running a set of race pads when tracking. My ex-E93 would have completely dirty wheels after maybe 100 miles. The 2010 (9/15/2009 build date) d can go 1,000 miles and not have as dirty wheels as the ex-E93 did after 100 miles.
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:35 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
Pad formulation was changed with the 9/2009+ builds. BMW relinquished its claim to most dirty wheels with the new formulation. Braking performance is only impacted at the margins. One could argue that if you are wanting better performance while tracking the car, you should be running a set of race pads when tracking. My ex-E93 would have completely dirty wheels after maybe 100 miles. The 2010 (9/15/2009 build date) d can go 1,000 miles and not have as dirty wheels as the ex-E93 did after 100 miles.
I've noticed that the brakes have less bite so I press the pedal a bit harder. I rather do this than having to detail the car after every couple of times I use it. (I'm OCD)
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:39 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I've noticed that the brakes have less bite so I press the pedal a bit harder. I rather do this than having to detail the car after every couple of times I use it. (I'm OCD)
Initial bite with the pre-9/2009 pads was greater, but stopping distance from 60-0 is pretty close (if not indistinguishable). Personally, I would gladly trade a bit of initial bite for less dust (I am not one to tailgate, which is where the initial bite would pay off). Especially if the 60-0 distance is un-changed.
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:25 AM
cneighbor cneighbor is online now
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Thanks for the replies...good info. I will say that my e92 has more bite than the f30 I test drove. So I agree with most...gladly give up a little bite for less dust. And FWIW, my two previously Volvos are still kings of brake dust. I swear the dust would multiply while my car was parked.
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fun2drive View Post
BMW reforulated their brake pads in 2009 to not dust much as compared to pads previously. I think the new pads retain the same performance but with about 90% less dust...
^This
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:51 PM
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I first noticed this on my 2011 335 Premium/M-Sport and even the Dealer didn't believe me. I now have a 2012 535 and they are the same. Clean after a couple of rain events and a road trip. I cleaned it today and they were still reasonably clean after a trip to Ft. Worth and back. The seven BMW's I had prior to the 2011 were filthy after 100 miles.
Lovin this a lot.
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 530CE View Post
I first noticed this on my 2011 335 Premium/M-Sport and even the Dealer didn't believe me. I now have a 2012 535 and they are the same. Clean after a couple of rain events and a road trip. I cleaned it today and they were still reasonably clean after a trip to Ft. Worth and back. The seven BMW's I had prior to the 2011 were filthy after 100 miles.
Lovin this a lot.
My wife's '08 535xi is a mess with brake dust. It drives me crazy when it takes like 40 minutes to clean all of her wheels including the inside barrels.
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by fun2drive View Post
BMW reforulated their brake pads in 2009 to not dust much as compared to pads previously. I think the new pads retain the same performance but with about 90% less dust...
If that's the case I look forward to needing to replace my pads!
I certainly notice a very aggressive initial bite - much more like the Pagid Orange pads on my 911 track car than normal 'street' pads. In fact I find it quite difficult to modulate the brakes as there is a rather sudden transition off/on transition. What with the AT downshifting as you coast to traffic lights, all that's needed is a smidgen of brakes, modulating off to get a jerk free stop. But it just isn't that easy!
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:41 PM
shedridc shedridc is offline
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Can anyone tell me if I get BMW replacement pads from the dealer for my 2008 328xi, will I get low dust pads like they put on the newer cars or do I get the old formulation high dust pads?
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:04 PM
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The only thing 99% of the drivers will notice on the street is way less dust. In Mexico I am making a lot of 115 to 0 stops with good control & no fade during software testing.
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  #15  
Old 04-14-2013, 01:28 AM
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Was going to argue that my Prius has virtually zero dust but stops shorter than BMWs. Turns out I was wrong. These are numbers from Motor Trend tests:

2010 Prius: 120 ft
2012 Miata: 110 ft
2012 328i: 113 ft
2012 335i: 108 ft
2006 330i: 115 ft


BMWs are pretty impressive! Interesting to see newer BMWs stop shorter. Also the Prius comes with eco-tires, likely with grippy rubber it'd be at least 10ft shorter, I think they stop so well having both the regenerative braking and friction brakes.
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  #16  
Old 04-14-2013, 04:38 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shedridc View Post
Can anyone tell me if I get BMW replacement pads from the dealer for my 2008 328xi, will I get low dust pads like they put on the newer cars or do I get the old formulation high dust pads?
If the dealer has old pads in stock, you would get dusty pads. By now, probably all of the old stock has cleared inventory, and replacement low dust pads are what is in inventory.
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:58 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Originally Posted by MP3_E46 View Post
Was going to argue that my Prius has virtually zero dust but stops shorter than BMWs. Turns out I was wrong. These are numbers from Motor Trend tests:

2010 Prius: 120 ft
2012 Miata: 110 ft
2012 328i: 113 ft
2012 335i: 108 ft
2006 330i: 115 ft


BMWs are pretty impressive! Interesting to see newer BMWs stop shorter. Also the Prius comes with eco-tires, likely with grippy rubber it'd be at least 10ft shorter, I think they stop so well having both the regenerative braking and friction brakes.
I doubt grippy tires are available in the stock size for the Prius. If you want to improve the stopping ability of the Prius, there are three things you can do:

1. Change Pads. Hawk sell a ceramic compound pad for the Prius. Lower dust and better stopping.
2. Swap wheels for wider wheels. This allows for stickier tires to be fitted. Also allows for reducing weight if you fit lightweight (forged) wheels. Lower weight wheels = lower rotational mass, which can result in shorter stopping distance. Can also improve mpgs as well (less weight to push around).
3. Swap OEM tires for wider, stickier, performance tires. Larger contact patch allows for higher braking force before tire loses traction and ABS kicks in. Higher braking force = shorter stopping distances.

The offset to the wider tires is higher rolling resistance. Higher rolling resistance might be reduced by using low rolling resistance tires, but they may not be available in wider sizes that don't screw-up speedo & odo accuracy. It is possible to find a combination of wider (forged) wheels and wider tires that do not screw up odo & speedo accuracy while also shortening 60 to 0 distance with no mpg penalty. The wheels may cost $, but the saying 'You can have as much performance as you can afford' applies to stopping as it applies to going.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
I doubt grippy tires are available in the stock size for the Prius. If you want to improve the stopping ability of the Prius, there are three things you can do:

1. Change Pads. Hawk sell a ceramic compound pad for the Prius. Lower dust and better stopping.
2. Swap wheels for wider wheels. This allows for stickier tires to be fitted. Also allows for reducing weight if you fit lightweight (forged) wheels. Lower weight wheels = lower rotational mass, which can result in shorter stopping distance. Can also improve mpgs as well (less weight to push around).
3. Swap OEM tires for wider, stickier, performance tires. Larger contact patch allows for higher braking force before tire loses traction and ABS kicks in. Higher braking force = shorter stopping distances.
Prius is perfect as is, 120ft is not a bad distance. Stock they all come with good looking alloy wheels which are actually hidden behind covers. I took our covers off and used some Toyota center caps - it looks pretty good! Would post a photo but I have not any yet.

For stopping a Z06 is tops today. 93 ft IIRC. They have wide, sticky rubber.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:03 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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^^^^ Your call. If you are happy with stock, have at it. If you want shorter stopping distances, you have some research. 60-0 can be improved, it just costs some coin. Same for handling/cross wind resistance.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
I doubt grippy tires are available in the stock size for the Prius. If you want to improve the stopping ability of the Prius, there are three things you can do:

1. Change Pads. Hawk sell a ceramic compound pad for the Prius. Lower dust and better stopping.
2. Swap wheels for wider wheels. This allows for stickier tires to be fitted. Also allows for reducing weight if you fit lightweight (forged) wheels. Lower weight wheels = lower rotational mass, which can result in shorter stopping distance. Can also improve mpgs as well (less weight to push around).
3. Swap OEM tires for wider, stickier, performance tires. Larger contact patch allows for higher braking force before tire loses traction and ABS kicks in. Higher braking force = shorter stopping distances.

The offset to the wider tires is higher rolling resistance. Higher rolling resistance might be reduced by using low rolling resistance tires, but they may not be available in wider sizes that don't screw-up speedo & odo accuracy. It is possible to find a combination of wider (forged) wheels and wider tires that do not screw up odo & speedo accuracy while also shortening 60 to 0 distance with no mpg penalty. The wheels may cost $, but the saying 'You can have as much performance as you can afford' applies to stopping as it applies to going.
I'm quite sure that "wider, stickier" tires would have an adverse effect on fuel efficiency for a Prius as the tires are a fairly significant contributor to its MPG numbers.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:47 PM
shedridc shedridc is offline
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Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
If the dealer has old pads in stock, you would get dusty pads. By now, probably all of the old stock has cleared inventory, and replacement low dust pads are what is in inventory.
So you are sure pads ordered with the part number for the 2008 328xi will now be with the new low dust compound if from fresh inventory?
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:56 PM
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I'm quite sure that "wider, stickier" tires would have an adverse effect on fuel efficiency for a Prius as the tires are a fairly significant contributor to its MPG numbers.
Not really. It is the combined impact of the increased friction of the wider tires being offset by lower rotational mass of lighter wheels. It is possible to go out to at least 205 series tires and with lighter (forged) wheels, the lower rotational mass of the forged wheels will offset the increased friction of the wider (and stickier) tires.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:14 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Originally Posted by shedridc View Post
So you are sure pads ordered with the part number for the 2008 328xi will now be with the new low dust compound if from fresh inventory?
2010 328xi front brake pad part no. is 34116790759 2008 328xi front brake pad part no. is 34116780711 Ask if the older part is in stock at the dealer parts dept. If not and the '759 part is what is stocked for your car, you get the new, improved pads. If both parts are in stock, look at the two matched up to each other. No difference in the metal backing (pattern and machining) or overall pad thickness, then you can use the newer pads. BTW Hawk specifies the same part # (HB551Z.748) for their ceramic pads for the 2008 328xi front as well as for a 2010 328xi front, so I am fairly (95%+, maybe 99%+) confident that the '759 pads will fit in your 2008 car.
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:13 PM
shedridc shedridc is offline
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Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
2010 328xi front brake pad part no. is 34116790759 2008 328xi front brake pad part no. is 34116780711 Ask if the older part is in stock at the dealer parts dept. If not and the '759 part is what is stocked for your car, you get the new, improved pads. If both parts are in stock, look at the two matched up to each other. No difference in the metal backing (pattern and machining) or overall pad thickness, then you can use the newer pads. BTW Hawk specifies the same part # (HB551Z.748) for their ceramic pads for the 2008 328xi front as well as for a 2010 328xi front, so I am fairly (95%+, maybe 99%+) confident that the '759 pads will fit in your 2008 car.
Very helpful response, thanks. I will look into that.
BTW, is the Hawk ceramic good for normal street use? I was also thinking about Akebomo, but I am hesitant to move away from BMW standard OEM since I am strickly only street use.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:04 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Originally Posted by shedridc View Post
Very helpful response, thanks. I will look into that.
BTW, is the Hawk ceramic good for normal street use? I was also thinking about Akebomo, but I am hesitant to move away from BMW standard OEM since I am strickly only street use.
Hawk ceramics are good for street use. I have used them on a number of non-BMWs. Basically an improvement over street pads with minimal dusting (and minimal rotor wear - I have a 2006 Volvo XC90 V8 with the Hawks and still have the original rotors at 70,000 miles...). However, if you have the BMW maintenance coverage, the newer BMW pads are easily as good as the Hawks.
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