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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 09-28-2012, 09:30 PM
LeNoah LeNoah is offline
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pricing E350 vs 535i

Having a dilema. We are loooong time BMW drivers, first one was a 1978 530i, and have owned a couple MB's along the way. Currently have '08 Carrera S, 08 Tacoma and '10 528i.

The 528 is coming off lease in a couple weeks and really want to replace it with a 535. However, the BMW dealers just aren't dealing. After grinding away I can only seem to get about 5% off msrp. So I went to look at a E350 Sport sedan just for comparison. MB dealer gave me $5000 off within 5 minutes and another $2000 before I left the dealership. And I really hadn't started to grind.

So we are at about $59K for the 535 and $51K for a similarly equiped E350 (probably still more room on the Benz). I really want the Bimmer but $8 to $10 grand is a big spread. MB financing was 2.9% vs 3.9 at BMW.
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  #2  
Old 09-28-2012, 09:35 PM
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Keyser Soze Keyser Soze is offline
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Jon Shafer or the Pacific/Steve Thomas Guys.

RE-finance Penfed 1.79% a month or two later.
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  #3  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeNoah View Post
However, the BMW dealers just aren't dealing. After grinding away I can only seem to get about 5% off msrp.
Wow! We ordered a 2013 550i and got 7% off MSRP, that's at invoice. Now that was for a 2013. If you are looking at 2012 models, which I'm sure dealers still have in their stock and you find one you like, you can get 10% or more off MSRP....$1500-2000 off invoice. The dealers I shopped all were willing to deal.

Since you are in SoCal, you have a lot of BMW dealers around to shop. Try Henry Suh at New Century BMW.
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Last edited by Decboy; 09-28-2012 at 11:20 PM.
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  #4  
Old 09-29-2012, 02:01 AM
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ChrisF01 ChrisF01 is online now
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Yikes.. dont get an E Class, they're probably pretty darned solid/reliable at this point, but (at least to me) they're really bland looking, like Camry-level of vanilla.

I liked the previous-gen E Class too, had great lines

If you're going to buy vs lease, why not look for a good CPO?
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Last edited by ChrisF01; 09-29-2012 at 02:02 AM.
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  #5  
Old 09-29-2012, 04:35 AM
mg650 mg650 is offline
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When comparing you have to factor in maintenance cost. I just got out of an e550 for my '13 550. Over that 3 years/50k miles i probably spent on the order of 2500 in maintenance. I know it doesnt close the gap completely (ok or even half in your case) but something not to ignore, unless mb is throwing in their maintenance package too ( which you might also get them to do)

Which car do you really want? Assuming you can just as easily afford both which does not sound like an issue- think about whether getting into the e350 every morning is going to feel like a compromise?

The only other thing i would say, just coming out of an E, is that the transmission shifts are very, very slow compared to the 5 series (at least my '10 e550 vs '13 550xi sport trans). If you test drive again, go simulate a three point turn somewhere that there is no risk of traffic, and you will see what i mean. Other negative is the comand software (even the updated one) is on a small screen and not as intuitive as bmw in my opinion.

Otherwise the benz was a very solid, very reliable and overall great car to drive. I also think it is discounted so much because it is due for a significant refresh next year (i think c&d has an article).
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  #6  
Old 09-29-2012, 05:38 AM
FastMarkA FastMarkA is online now
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Are you just going to one dealer? There are tons in LA/OC so this shouldn't be a problem for you.

I haven't priced either car in a while so I don't know what their invoices are; I do believe the 5 is generally priced higher?

Keep in mind that if a piece of bubble gum is 25 cents and a bucket of [doo-doo] is a penny, you could certainly pay less for the bucket but look what you have.
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  #7  
Old 09-29-2012, 06:58 AM
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dunderhi dunderhi is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
Jon Shafer or the Pacific/Steve Thomas Guys.

RE-finance Penfed 1.79% a month or two later.
+1 for PenFed. I did the refi route a couple years ago with PenFed and all it did was save me a lot of money!

You can also try Greg Poland at Pacific BMW. You can contact Jon or Greg via a Bimmerfest PM. Their Bimmerfest usernames: Greg@Pacific BMW and Jon Shafer
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  #8  
Old 09-29-2012, 07:36 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
+1 for PenFed. I did the refi route a couple years ago with PenFed and all it did was save me a lot of money!

You can also try Greg Poland at Pacific BMW. You can contact Jon or Greg via a Bimmerfest PM. Their Bimmerfest usernames: Greg@Pacific BMW and Jon Shafer
+1,000,000

Don't waste your time elsewhere. The magic formula:

Go to BMW Config.com
Build the car
Look at invoice price
Invoice plus $500 to $1,000 for dealer profit
Deduct incentives.

Voila.
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  #9  
Old 09-29-2012, 09:26 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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The samething happened to me 6 months ago at the Mercedes dealer. As soon as I finished my test drive of the E350, the salemans offer me $5000 off right off the bat. I think if I were interested in the E350, I would have easily gotten at least $10000 off.
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  #10  
Old 09-29-2012, 09:31 AM
sr421 sr421 is offline
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I just leased a 2013 535. Deal was $800 over invoice less $750 loyalty and $500 Ultimate Drive. Dealer didn't want to lose me again. They did on my last lease of 2010 X5. I think I still left 2-300 on the table but I was ok with that. They were really great to deal with.
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  #11  
Old 09-29-2012, 09:54 AM
ITMenace ITMenace is offline
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Goto shelly BMW and work with Dave their Internet sales manager. You can do most of the negotiation via emails to save time. You can tell him Mr. irani referred you the one with the AW Msport 550i. Good luck.
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  #12  
Old 09-29-2012, 12:38 PM
RambleJ RambleJ is offline
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Or you can reach out to Mark D at Nick Alexander, he is the sales manager there and will give you a proper deal if you tell him Chris D sent you. All the people I refer don't get jerked around.
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  #13  
Old 09-29-2012, 01:16 PM
schnell525 schnell525 is offline
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look closely at the option packages on the E350. to get a "decent" car, you'll need to get the P2 package just to get xenons. leather is optional, and most cars come to the states unless custom ordered with MB Tex vinyl.

there is no comparison in materials and build quality between the F10 and the E350. i've had two W212 E350's. if you want a sea of plastic, get the MB. you should be able to get invoice + some bucks for the dealer. i can't think that dealer's aren't willing to come down. the economy ain't that great.
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  #14  
Old 09-29-2012, 01:36 PM
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AutoUnion AutoUnion is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schnell525 View Post
there is no comparison in materials and build quality between the F10 and the E350. i've had two W212 E350's. if you want a sea of plastic, get the MB. you should be able to get invoice + some bucks for the dealer. i can't think that dealer's aren't willing to come down. the economy ain't that great.
This is true. So many E Classes out there come with MBTex, halogens. You have to get P2 to get Xenons and leather is extra.

MBTex is pretty durable stuff, but isn't very breathable. Get the leather (if you are going the Benz route)
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  #15  
Old 09-29-2012, 02:41 PM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Mercedes is having some sort of problem with their HID vendor, when I was last at the dealer, there were very very few E350 with HIDs. To find one with both HID and leather is ever harder. I didnt have the heart to the tell the MB salesman that all their competition comes with HID and leather standard.

Last edited by The X Men; 09-29-2012 at 02:47 PM.
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  #16  
Old 09-29-2012, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Mercedes is having some sort of problem with their HID vendor, when I was last at the dealer, there were very very few E350 with HIDs. To find one with both HID and leather is ever harder. I didnt have the heart to the tell the MB salesman that all their competition comes with HID and leather standard.
Just rarer, not a shortage I think. Blame is on the dealers, not Mercedes-Benz.

For example, most of the GLKs and MLs out there don't have Bi-Xenons because you have to spec the lighting package. Most dealers just open P1/P2 and not the lighting package. Same with the E. Most dealers spec them with P1, not P2 (which includes Bi-Xenons)

It's pretty sad because the X5 and the F10 seem to come standard with Bi-Xenons these days.
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  #17  
Old 09-29-2012, 03:13 PM
mg650 mg650 is offline
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Agree. Nuts that a $50k car wouldn't come with xenon lights. Admittedly i used to feel same way that you had to get a package with bmw to get auto dimming mirrors... But i dont think that is the case anymore. Either way i always end up going berzerk when selecting options like a kid in the andy store. I think i watched too much Knight Rider as a kid.
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  #18  
Old 09-29-2012, 10:43 PM
schnell525 schnell525 is offline
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You want to hear something bad about ML xenons...? I had a xenon-equipped 2011 ML350 4matic. The lights did not get hot enough to keep snow and ice from developing. I was driving back in a short distance in a lake-effect snow storm (wasn't that bad) and in 8 miles, my visibility dropped significantly. I've had at least 10 cars with xenons and didn't have this problem. The ML's headlight washers were ineffective. I buy VW/Audi concentrate which is good to -40 and it didn't help.

I think my 550 will be fine. Never had a problem with any of my BMW's and ice build-up on xenons. The 550 puts out so much heat I'm sure it'll melt just about anything that lands on the front end.

My two E's had MSRP's around 62K. Neither had leather but that inside air-quality was pretty bad. They have no wheres the cabin filtration of what BMW's offer.

The ride is horrible with the "AMG" package. I think the E is built solid. I think the tollerances are too tight, which makes the damn thing rattle like there's no tomorrow. I had no rattles in my F10 11 535 and none in my 12.

Also be aware, MB resale is horrible. I've broken a lot of leases to trade for cars. BMW has cost the least to get out of for a dealer trade while MB is murder.

Don't let the Benz fanbois talk you into MBTex. It isn't leather, and doesn't smell like leather. MB dealers like to not mention that their cars are vinyl. I think most buyers think it's leather. Well it sure the hell is not. A hot day will show you how bad the E class off-gasses. You'll need to clean the windows every 3 days from the build up. You don't see this in BMW.

And if you have any allergies or sensativites to plastics, this car can be your hell. My last E triggered some very serious reactions. Shortness of breath, watering eyes, extremely irritated sinuses. I told the allergy doc about the lack of cabin filtration and my reaction. He's a BMW driver and he asked me what I replaced the car with--it was an F10. Last check-up he was driving an F10 535xi.

If the Benz is cheap, there's a reason why. I've had 5 MB products since 2006 and I'm done.
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  #19  
Old 09-30-2012, 06:40 AM
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dunderhi dunderhi is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schnell525 View Post
I had no rattles in my F10 11 535 and none in my 12.
Agree, still no rattles after 28kmi in my 2011 550.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schnell525 View Post
Don't let the Benz fanbois talk you into MBTex. It isn't leather, and doesn't smell like leather. MB dealers like to not mention that their cars are vinyl. I think most buyers think it's leather. Well it sure the hell is not. A hot day will show you how bad the E class off-gasses. You'll need to clean the windows every 3 days from the build up. You don't see this in BMW.
I guess I'm an MB fanboy (despite currently owning two Bimmers) since I think MBTex is great. Mrs D prefers it to leather, and for the rougher wear & tear in an SUV, I prefer it too. We had MBTex in our MB GL450 and over 4 years of ownership, the MBTex never had any wear or gassing issues.
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:13 AM
schnell525 schnell525 is offline
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dunderhi,

i have a theory of why the ML & GL models don't have an off-gas build-up like the E...more cabin volume. My ML didn't smell like a plastic factory, unlike the W212. I test drove a GL450 a few months ago, and it didn't have the plastic smell of the W212 either. The ML and GL do not have the same plastics as the W212.

MB was offering a fantastic deal on GL's, however I decided to end my relationship with MB, thus the 550.
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  #21  
Old 09-30-2012, 09:49 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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What does a typical GL cost? $79K+? and it comes with vinyl seats, its almost a crime. I guess one have to step up to the $80K+ GL550 to get real leather.

Last edited by The X Men; 09-30-2012 at 09:56 AM.
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  #22  
Old 09-30-2012, 10:25 PM
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Decboy Decboy is offline
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Not sure why MB would make leather an option for the E350. We had to order our 2011 E350 because we wanted leather. That's a joke. But we ended up selling it recently to move back to a BMW.

I used to love MBs. But the current MB designs just lost me as a customer. They still have that vault-like feel but the material and design went south. That's just my opinion in comparing the current models with their previous generation. Just compare the W211 and the W212. The former had much more MB qualities. The rear folding headrest was a hallmark in my opinion for the E and why they got rid of it for the W212 is beyond me. They replaced the golf tee-like door pins which were also a MB hallmark and replaced it with some cheap ones. Also, I cannot stand the column shifter. Am I driving a Buick? Do I need all that center console space so I can set up for a picnic on my drive? I can go on and on but any one who owned a previous generation MB understand my point. Look at the C Class and compare the W203 with the current W204. The CLK was much better looking than the current E coupe. The current E coupe looks like a roach. I have faith in MB, I hope they will revamp their models some time in the near future to win back some of their lost customers.
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Last edited by Decboy; 09-30-2012 at 10:26 PM.
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  #23  
Old 10-02-2012, 09:33 AM
530CE 530CE is offline
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A lot of friends of mine who used to work at BMW have left and gone to work at a really great Mercedes dealer nearby. Although Iíve never been a MB fan these guys and this dealer are fantastic so my wife and I drove over there to let them try to talk me into an E350. I forced myself to have as open a mind as is possible after having at the time eight previous BMWís.

They had a pretty well equipped E350 ready for me to drive and they sent us out with a very well qualified salesman. It drove OK but felt kind of boring and just wasnít anything special at all. I found myself trying to talk myself into it for the reasons I went out there in the first place but I couldnít get past that stupid gear shift up on the column. My wife reminded me how I talked myself into a Lexus back in the late 90ís and how I decided I hated that car before I made it completely off of the dealerís property.

My friends tried to get me to take one home for the weekend and reminded me they would of course make the dollars right as I know they would have but I just couldnít get past that ridiculous column gear shift so I declined.

So maybe I paid a little more for the 535 but everytime I see an E350 Iím actually happy that it had the column shifter or I might have talked myself into it and felt like I did about that Lexus. That is counting the days until I could get rid of it and get back into a BMW. As it turns out this 535 is the very best driving BMW Iíve ever had and after 4-1/2 months I look for reasons to go drive it somewhere.
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