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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 08-22-2013, 06:49 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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Pharding's Strategy for His 2014 550i M Sport without the M Sport Suspension

I am not going to take delivery of it. This was to be my 5th 5er with the sport suspension system. This is No. 8 BMW in the last 12 years. This was the second BMW ordered this year. Wifey got a 2014 X3. My 5er without the sport suspension is likely on the boat to the US right now. I have scheduled test drives for Saturday with the the Audi S6 and Audi A7. BMW has really screwed up with their irresponsible response to the problem that they created. At issue is by my dealer's conjecture 50 - 100 RWD M Sport 550i's, that were built in August. They are not cheap cars and those that buy them are generally BMW Enthusiasts. BMW NA's response is baffling. I own a 10 person architecture firm. If we encounter a problem with our service or building, that we created, we promptly take care of it. The problem promptly goes away without festering and the client relationship is maintained. BMW NA's strategy of leaving BMW Enthusiasts, who generally buy more than one BMW, in limbo is absurd. Nobody between BMW NA customer Service and the dealership knows what the hell is going on.

BMW NA needs to acknowledge that there is a problem and that the issue with the 2014 550i M Sport without the M sport suspensions will be addressed in an equitable manner and that in the meantime they do not know what the fix will be. However they should state that there will be a fix because BMW values its customers.

After doing the test drives on Saturday of the Audi S6 and A7 with sport suspensions, if I like one them, I may just go ahead and lease one. I know exactly what I want and the funds are there. I can think of worse fates that driving an Audi for 3 or more years.
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04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
14 X3 2.8i
11 550i Euro Del, Retired
08 550i Euro Del, Retired
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04 545i Euro Del, Retired
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Last edited by pharding; 08-22-2013 at 06:59 AM.
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  #2  
Old 08-22-2013, 07:37 AM
skilletbgm skilletbgm is offline
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Technically, you've already taken delivery of the car. So it's yours.

Personally, I'd give BMWNA some time to work through the massive logistical nightmare this is. I suspect there are a few hundred M-sports built in July and August that are either at dealers or en route to them/VPC. That's a heck of a lot of cars to update. They're a global manufacturing company, and leverage JIT supply chain management. They've got to get the supplier to ramp up production of the various components and ship to VPC / Dealers for retrofit. I believe this is not a bottom line thing, but purely logistics and how to best execute the fix.

I think it's premature to jump ship over this when there hasn't been any determination one way or the other what will be done and how.

My $0.02
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  #3  
Old 08-22-2013, 07:48 AM
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PHarding:
Didn't you take delivery in Munich? If so, how do you plan to legally refuse re-delivery?

The last paragraph say "the funds are there", which means you have not paid for the car and you might not have gone to Munich yet. If so, then that's good.

Last, there are some super loaded 2013 550is out there that you can have for $10k off if you qualify for most of the incentives. Why don't you just buy a 2013?
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Last edited by jagu; 08-22-2013 at 08:02 AM.
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  #4  
Old 08-22-2013, 08:02 AM
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Keyser Soze Keyser Soze is offline
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Give them time to actually propose a solution. If they let you re-order and your dealer has to accept the car - I seriously doubt they'll take much of a hit on it (96.5%* of potential buyers won't even know/care it doesn't have the actual M-Sport suspension as they'll be drooling over the looks). Plus maybe BMWNA kicks you down at least: trunk mat, cargo net, all weather mats and since you can't get a performance exhaust on the 550 some sort of credit on the new car along a nice gift basket.

*made up number
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Last edited by Keyser Soze; 08-22-2013 at 08:05 AM.
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  #5  
Old 08-22-2013, 08:02 AM
skilletbgm skilletbgm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagu View Post
PHarding:
Didn't you take delivery in Munich? If so, how do you plan to legally refuse re-delivery?

The last paragraph say "the funds are there", which means you have not paid for the car and you might not have gone to Munich yet. If so, then that's good.
Oh wait, he might not have taken delivery yet. I think they screwed up the ED delivery date or something, so they just shipped the car.
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ED P/U - 09/13/2013
ED D/O - X1 (09/15), 535d (09/21)
REDELIVERY - X1 (10/31), 535d (11/4)
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  #6  
Old 08-22-2013, 08:05 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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BMW would be well served to acknowledge the problem and state that it will be resolved in an equitable manner. That is the professional way to handle the problem. Refusal to acknowledge the problem that they created and give customers the run around does not reflect well on BMW. Plus it is better to retain current BMW Enthusiast customers than to drive them away and use marketing to attract new customers. BMW's biggest asset is its brand image and this is not good for the brand. The longer that the problem lingers unacknowledged the worse it is for the loyal customers and BMW.

As far as the 550i being mine, that is not true. BMW screwed up big time. The dealership or BMW is not going to walk away from this mess. My suggestion to BMW is to promptly acknowledge the mistake in a professional manner and buy some time while they sort this out. Everyone knows that the most expensive fix is litigation with the loss of prestige and customers. In that case the collateral damage is much more expensive than the cost of whatever fix is arrived at. BMW will eventually voluntarily take care of this. This issue is one of timing and customer relations.
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04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
14 X3 2.8i
11 550i Euro Del, Retired
08 550i Euro Del, Retired
06 330i Euro Del, Retired
04 545i Euro Del, Retired
01 530i Euro Del, Retired

Last edited by pharding; 08-22-2013 at 08:21 AM.
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  #7  
Old 08-22-2013, 08:13 AM
TJC85 TJC85 is offline
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Dude!!! Chill...It takes time to turn and Aircraft Carrier... I feel your pain... Your Firm only has 10...your like a 25ft. boat, you can turn on a dime... Keep on top of BMWNA and push your CA, you get more with suger than you get with salt
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  #8  
Old 08-22-2013, 08:15 AM
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Sonicendeavor Sonicendeavor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skilletbgm View Post
Technically, you've already taken delivery of the car. So it's yours.

Personally, I'd give BMWNA some time to work through the massive logistical nightmare this is. I suspect there are a few hundred M-sports built in July and August that are either at dealers or en route to them/VPC. That's a heck of a lot of cars to update. They're a global manufacturing company, and leverage JIT supply chain management. They've got to get the supplier to ramp up production of the various components and ship to VPC / Dealers for retrofit. I believe this is not a bottom line thing, but purely logistics and how to best execute the fix.

I think it's premature to jump ship over this when there hasn't been any determination one way or the other what will be done and how.

My $0.02
His point is that BMW has left all of us in the dark about how they are going to handle this. I understand the logistical issues, but the lack of a policy regarding our cars is incomprehensible.
A simple "yes, we will retrofit your car. We are currently in the process of determining parts availability and logistics". Or "We have no plans to retrofit July/August builds but we will buy your car back (or not). Just be forthcoming with us.
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  #9  
Old 08-22-2013, 08:20 AM
skilletbgm skilletbgm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJC85 View Post
Your Firm only has 10...your like a 25ft. boat, you can turn on a dime
Yup!
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ED P/U - 09/13/2013
ED D/O - X1 (09/15), 535d (09/21)
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  #10  
Old 08-22-2013, 08:22 AM
joseyu joseyu is offline
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I don't think you have answered the question that is central to this post. If you have already picked up the car from Munich, then legally it is your car since you have already paid for it. Do you really plan on getting attorneys involved to refuse re-delivery of a car that already belongs to you? None of this matters if you did not end up making the trip to Munich.
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  #11  
Old 08-22-2013, 08:32 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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Let us know how you like the S6. Strangely enough we haven't had many here giving reviews on it. It should be a natural option for 550 buyer's and has received far more favorable professional reviews, even beat the M5 in a few if I'm not mistaken. Maybe it's because many lease here and Audi is not competitive for leases? If there's ever been a time to check out the competition it's in this era.

Last edited by solstice; 08-22-2013 at 08:34 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-22-2013, 08:50 AM
redbull21 redbull21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonicendeavor View Post
A simple "yes, we will retrofit your car. We are currently in the process of determining parts availability and logistics". Or "We have no plans to retrofit July/August builds but we will buy your car back (or not). Just be forthcoming with us.
I share this sentiment, and agree that BMW's image has taken a big hit with this. Why not issue a dealer memo so CAs can assure their customers, for damage control purposes? It's not apparent what the hell they're waiting for.

My BMW dealer rep, who is very experienced (and connected) as policy does not like to make public statements until official BMW communications come out, however he has asked me to wait because he sincerely believes BMW will take care of me, most likely installing the 704 components when the car is at the VDC next month. I trust him and so did not cancel my order. I will not accept the car without it though, and have made that clear.

I drove a couple of Audi A6s and didn't care for them for various reasons, or actually thought the various 2013 M Sports that I drove were far superior. I was not able to find a dealer with an S6 willing to let me drive it ("they are all customer ordered cars"), which would have been my preference over an A6. For whatever reason I think the A7 looks odd.

I am choosing to be patient and wait for BMW to sort this out. At the end of the day I will get my car sooner than if I had reordered one, I will get the BMW Experience incentive, and I will absolutely have an LCI M Sport 550i with the 704 installed, one way or another.

Other incentives (bribes) like a cash rebate or a gift basket in lieu of a retrofit will not be accepted. They will make my car whole as I expected (and paid for) it to be.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joseyu View Post
I don't think you have answered the question that is central to this post. If you have already picked up the car from Munich, then legally it is your car since you have already paid for it. Do you really plan on getting attorneys involved to refuse re-delivery of a car that already belongs to you? None of this matters if you did not end up making the trip to Munich.
Pharding did not take delivery in Munich. BMW messed up big time and screwed up his trip, so they are delivering him the car directly. However of course that car is built without 704.

On a side note, the reason this 704 issue is getting so big is from us first batch people who are awaiting deliveries. Most of us did NOT know about this 704 issue until productions finished. Do you really think those people do not deserve to get taken care of?
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:15 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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IMO in a private transaction of a product to the tune of nearly $80k in a highly competetive market the buyer should expect and receive exceptional treatment, if not it's time to think about exit strategy. I.e I fully understand pharding's reaction, hopefully he will get the answer he wants before going to the competition but looking for a backup plan at this point is natural. $80k is a lot of dough to handover to a party you feel tricked or mistreated by.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:16 AM
bjayfan bjayfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
BMW would be well served to acknowledge the problem and state that it will be resolved in an equitable manner. That is the professional way to handle the problem. Refusal to acknowledge the problem that they created and give customers the run around does not reflect well on BMW. Plus it is better to retain current BMW Enthusiast customers than to drive them away and use marketing to attract new customers. BMW's biggest asset is its brand image and this is not good for the brand. The longer that the problem lingers unacknowledged the worse it is for the loyal customers and BMW.

As far as the 550i being mine, that is not true. BMW screwed up big time. The dealership or BMW is not going to walk away from this mess. My suggestion to BMW is to promptly acknowledge the mistake in a professional manner and buy some time while they sort this out. Everyone knows that the most expensive fix is litigation with the loss of prestige and customers. In that case the collateral damage is much more expensive than the cost of whatever fix is arrived at. BMW will eventually voluntarily take care of this. This issue is one of timing and customer relations.
First, I think you got royally screwed, no question there.

Second, I think the attitude that you are taking with this is going to close off any (or most) accommodations with BMW or BMWNA, which will lead to the only avenue being legal recourse with not as strong of a case.

You own your own business so I will assume that you don't allow people to tell you how to run your business. Pass the favor back and if they don't give an acceptable solution then would be the time to let a lawyer use whatever attitude works best.

Last edited by bjayfan; 08-22-2013 at 09:17 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:35 AM
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Technic Technic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
First, I think you got royally screwed, no question there.

Second, I think the attitude that you are taking with this is going to close off any (or most) accommodations with BMW or BMWNA, which will lead to the only avenue being legal recourse with not as strong of a case.

You own your own business so I will assume that you don't allow people to tell you how to run your business. Pass the favor back and if they don't give an acceptable solution then would be the time to let a lawyer use whatever attitude works best.
I think that attitude works both ways.

And most often than not when side A claims that side B dares to show attitude in their dealings most of the time it is because side A showed the same or worst attitude first in their dealings...
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:48 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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I did not say that I would pursue litigation. What I said was that BMW knows that the general problem if not handled properly will get resolved through litigation. That is no secret. BMW NA as has been their pattern will take care of this eventually. My point was that the professional approach would be for BMW to acknowledge that the problem will be taken care of in an equitable manner and let the customers and dealerships know this. If they do not know how it will be taken care of, then just let people know that the fix has yet to be determined.

BMW NA badly misjudged the value of the M sport suspension to the purchasers of the 5er M Sport. They somehow lumped us with the 7er clientele. The 5er has a long history of being offered with the sport suspension and it has always been a very cool option. Apparently their new focus group approach to decision making by BMW NA runs counter to the culture of those BMW Enthusiasts who purchase the M Sport in the US. Once this is resolved and my 5er gets a sports suspension or I get an Audi with a sports suspension, I will evaluate whether the 5er continues to make sense for me. Chances are that this is my last one. If BMW NA does not care about a sport suspension and driving dynamics in the 5er, then I will do something else. The driving dynamics of the F10 from the outset has been and continues to be disappointing. Obviously BMW no longer sees the 5er as a sports sedan. Their vision is a floaty luxury sedan with slogans of driving dynamics that ring hollow.
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04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
14 X3 2.8i
11 550i Euro Del, Retired
08 550i Euro Del, Retired
06 330i Euro Del, Retired
04 545i Euro Del, Retired
01 530i Euro Del, Retired

Last edited by pharding; 08-22-2013 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:56 AM
hotrod2448 hotrod2448 is offline
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Unfortunately BMW kind seems to be developing a history of doing things like this. My experience lies mostly with the 3er but, since 2007 I've seen them deliver a decent portion of the first years production without the emissions controls diagnostics activated, randomly add or remove oil coolers throughout production and most recently ship msport cars without msport wheels for the 2011 model year. I know there were a lot of people up in arms over the oil cooler and wheel issues, as they should be. I hope they do right by their customers on this matter.
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:33 PM
williakz williakz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
My point was that the professional approach would be for BMW to acknowledge that the problem will be taken care of in an equitable manner and let the customers and dealerships know this. If they do not know how it will be taken care of, then just let people know that the fix has yet to be determined.
Ridiculous! BMW cannot issue a blanket promise like that. Any sop issued in haste would sow more angst and confusion than it would settle. Don't believe it? Define "equitable." You and the other pseudo-lemon owners would just begin screaming for details on how and when and where you get your 704s.

You, as head of your own business, wouldn't dream of issuing such a vague and meaningless assurance to your customers and BMW can't do it to theirs. Once the company has its policy worked out on EXACTLY how, when, and where the 704 fix will be applied, you will be informed. Until then cool your nuts.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:29 PM
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alewifebp alewifebp is offline
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Since you said you were leasing, I'll be very curious to see what a nicely loaded S6 leases for. There was someone on this forum that was claiming he got some great lease deals on an Audi, but provided no details on the lease, so many were skeptical.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:10 PM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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Quote:
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Since you said you were leasing, I'll be very curious to see what a nicely loaded S6 leases for. There was someone on this forum that was claiming he got some great lease deals on an Audi, but provided no details on the lease, so many were skeptical.
Audi doesn't have good deal on lease, now they do have sweet deal if your are financing.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:01 PM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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if i had to guess to lease a well optioned Audi S6 you will be getting close to leasing a 13 F10 M5.
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:41 AM
ATL550 ATL550 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outie View Post
Pharding did not take delivery in Munich. BMW messed up big time and screwed up his trip, so they are delivering him the car directly. However of course that car is built without 704.

On a side note, the reason this 704 issue is getting so big is from us first batch people who are awaiting deliveries. Most of us did NOT know about this 704 issue until productions finished. Do you really think those people do not deserve to get taken care of?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
First, I think you got royally screwed, no question there.

Second, I think the attitude that you are taking with this is going to close off any (or most) accommodations with BMW or BMWNA, which will lead to the only avenue being legal recourse with not as strong of a case.

You own your own business so I will assume that you don't allow people to tell you how to run your business. Pass the favor back and if they don't give an acceptable solution then would be the time to let a lawyer use whatever attitude works best.

Each of us has our own individual deadline (tolerance) on when they think BMW should provide resolution. In the end, BMW will have met some and not met others. For those that BMW have not met their deadline to-date (pharding in this case), I feel it's appropriate to inform BMW of their dissatisfaction, loss of a customer, and move on.

bjayfan: The case is very strong as I pulled together all the marketing and production material for the 2014 5 series and sent to BMW USA. There was more indication in the material that 704 was included then not. No doubt that's why BMW had no choice but to put it back into production with no push back to its customers. I'd keep a close eye on the 2015 models as BMW might actually remove it the correct way (all material up-to-date and communication to the US dealerships prior to production).

outie: That's my biggest issue as well. I'm really trying to give BMW the chance to make right those that had the July/August builds but as of today, it looks like BMW only cares about future owners/customers since the M Suspension is now back in production and no communication has taken place with existing 2014 M Sport owners. I understand that even a corporation like BMW can make mistakes (pulling 704 out of production) but what I don't understand is its casual effort and lack of concern on resolution (or any communication) with the customers that brought it to BMW's attention in the first place. I'd be content if I just received a "We are working on it and will get to you shortly" from BMW! And btw, I've sent 5 emails and called twice to-date and the only response has been "you've been assigned a rep by the name of .....". Called the rep 3 days ago and still no response.

Exactly what are the July/August owners supposed to think at this point? With all due respect to the guys on the forum, I(we) need to hear something from BMW that everything is going to be covered. Hearing it on the forum at this point is not giving any of us a sense of assurance.
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Last edited by ATL550; 08-23-2013 at 04:49 AM.
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  #24  
Old 08-23-2013, 05:29 AM
bjayfan bjayfan is offline
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Originally Posted by ATL550 View Post
bjayfan: The case is very strong as I pulled together all the marketing and production material for the 2014 5 series and sent to BMW USA. There was more indication in the material that 704 was included then not. No doubt that's why BMW had no choice but to put it back into production with no push back to its customers. I'd keep a close eye on the 2015 models as BMW might actually remove it the correct way (all material up-to-date and communication to the US dealerships prior to production).
I agree that it is a strong case, what I was referring to was 'reasonable accommodation'. I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that if BMW can show it was an honest mistake, then all they are required to provide legally is a reasonable accommodation. If during the course of determining what that reasonable accommodation is the customer becomes combative, is unwilling to move from a single solution that BMW may be able to legally prove is not reasonable, ... etc., then the case gets weaker.

Personally I think BMW or BMWNA will offer a solution, it just may not be exactly what the (or all) customer(s) want (takes longer, some percentage of retrofit, etc.). Waiting for a BMW to be built and delivered can create strong expectations, be a shame to be right morally but in a gray area legally.

I'd advise more talking with dealer, BMWNA and BMW. Less talking on the forums. Get a lawyer if you want to, don't think you're to that point yet, but keep it civil. While a BMW it's still just a car.
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  #25  
Old 08-23-2013, 05:36 AM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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if i had to guess to lease a well optioned Audi S6 you will be getting close to leasing a 13 F10 M5.
Audi is for buyer & BMW is for lessee.
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