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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #126  
Old 09-29-2012, 10:03 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
Fair enough. This is by far the fastest time posted for the E36 M3 I have ever seen:

1994 BMW M3 Coupe 5 speed manual
Curb weight 3180
0-60 5.6 secs
0-100 14.9 secs
0-120 23.5 secs
0-130 29.8 secs
1/4 mile 14.3 @ 98 mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review

2008 128i
Curb weight 3228
0-60 5.7 secs
1/4 mile 14.4 @ 96.1 mph
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...st_test/?ti=v2

Few years back I used to attend domestic v import events at the local track. I witnessed plenty of E36 M3's running high 14 second to mid 15 seconds 1/4 mile times. Two of my friends owned E36 M3s both with modifications and both running mid 14 second times. Again I am not saying it is not capable of running 13 secs at 1/4 mile with some mods and I am not trying to take anything away from the E36 M3 because it is one of the best sedans ever made. However, I find it a little funny how most people say the N52 is slow when it pretty much matches the E36 M3's acceleration times. On the side note, I am thinking about picking up a E36 M3 as a track toy and keeping the E90 as my daily.

I guess I am just more engrossed as this is the generation of car I live with.

I have spent years doing NA bolt ons on the S52 and kept a close eye on all the times ran by S52 cars as well as dyno'ing.

In my section of the forums we have had a guy with a stock M Coupe with only 3.73 gears running 13.2 at 102.x mph. That may be partly due to the wider tires the M Coupe/Roadster allows. Even before the gears, he was still a 13.8 at 100. At the same time, more average drivers struggled to crack 13's. It was widely known, this person can DRIVE.

I also find it the norm for basic bolt on E36 M3's to be in the 13's. Not to be rude, but your experiences indicate from my years of dealing with these cars as either higher altitude, poorly driven, or not well chosen modifications-state of tune etc.
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  #127  
Old 09-29-2012, 10:10 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
I guess I am just more engrossed as this is the generation of car I live with.

I have spent years doing NA bolt ons on the S52 and kept a close eye on all the times ran by S52 cars as well as dyno'ing.

In my section of the forums we have had a guy with a stock M Coupe with only 3.73 gears running 13.2 at 102.x mph. That may be partly due to the wider tires the M Coupe/Roadster allows. Even before the gears, he was still a 13.8 at 100. At the same time, more average drivers struggled to crack 13's. It was widely known, this person can DRIVE.

I also find it the norm for basic bolt on E36 M3's to be in the 13's. Not to be rude, but your experiences indicate from my years of dealing with these cars as either higher altitude, poorly driven, or not well chosen modifications-state of tune etc.
Like I said I am not trying to take anything away from it and I am just speaking from what I witnessed over the years. The second review I posted is also the quickest I have ever seen in a major publication. I have never seen a stock or close to stock E36 M3 break 13's. Most of them posted mid 14 second runs. I am not saying it is not possible but I attended 1/4 mile racing events very frequently, mostly on import nights. Here are the numbers as per BMW of North America:

Unladen Weight: Coupe 3175 Sedan 3175/3241 auto
0-60 mph: Coupe 5.7 Sedan 5.7 /6.4 auto
1/4 mile: Coupe 14.3 Sedan 14.3/14.9 auto

Last edited by LegendsNeverDie; 09-29-2012 at 10:23 AM.
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  #128  
Old 09-29-2012, 10:47 AM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Unfortunately i have to see your nonsense. I'd put you on ignore but i would still have to see your posts when people quote you Stupid bug in the vBulletin software.

Then again i probably would be trolling the F30 forums too with nonsense if i recently purchased a E90 328i right before it was updated.
...and unfortunately he's got another 2 years on the lease to inform us of his "candidates" to replace his E90, like we care if he buys a Mitsubishi or a Cadillac.

BJ
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  #129  
Old 09-29-2012, 10:58 AM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I have never driven an F30 so I can't comment on how one drives but I do like the fact that it can be configured to be sporty, luxurious or whatever. The problem I had with the 335i was that it was that I did not like the handling without the sport package, although the ride was relatively comfortable in city and I liked the handling (on smooth surfaces) with the sport package but hated the harshness and crashiness on poor surfaces. I am in love with the adjustable suspension on the 750LIx. It literally gives you the best of both worlds.

As for styling, I have never been enthalled with the looks of BMWs (including the two that I own). I don't think they are bad looking, I just find them to be rather bland and run of the mill (innocuous?).

CA
The takeaway that needs to be hammered home is this:

The target customer for BMW is a status-seeking luxury car buyer in his 40's, not some performance-enthusiast sportsman in his 30's. The key to BMW's success has been making yuppie luxury cars with the perception of sports enthusiasm. They're trying to attract me, someone whose really in it for the badge but wants to be viewed like he's driving a sportscar-in-sheep's-clothing, makes me look cool, not like some stodgy dad in a Lexus.

Point being that enthusiasts are collateral damage, just a happy accident to BMW's overall marketing strategy. They sell so few Sport models and M-Sport models that it's not significant enough to move the needle. But without their perception of "sporty performance" they lose me as I don't want to be seen in a car like that. If I were only in it for the badge, I'd go Mercedes E Class. Because of their sports enthusiast marking, I am just as well perceived (if not better) in a BMW 3.

So if the F30 is getting bigger and longer and wider with a proudly marketed "luxury" line and a default "comfort" mode it sucks for the performance enthusiasts but it's not some "mistake" on BMW's part. They know exactly what they're doing. Cadillac, along with every other brand that's tried and failed, can't succeed because they're not perceived to be a "sporty" brand. We have you enthusiasts to thank for that protection. The ATS's ad campaign, TV commercials, it's all about some 30-something's racing around twisty highways in Europe. It's all an attempt to "BMW-ize" their brand. Going to take decades and at least one fabulous car to do that.

BJ
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  #130  
Old 09-29-2012, 11:26 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
Like I said I am not trying to take anything away from it and I am just speaking from what I witnessed over the years. The second review I posted is also the quickest I have ever seen in a major publication. I have never seen a stock or close to stock E36 M3 break 13's. Most of them posted mid 14 second runs. I am not saying it is not possible but I attended 1/4 mile racing events very frequently, mostly on import nights. Here are the numbers as per BMW of North America:

Unladen Weight: Coupe 3175 Sedan 3175/3241 auto
0-60 mph: Coupe 5.7 Sedan 5.7 /6.4 auto
1/4 mile: Coupe 14.3 Sedan 14.3/14.9 auto
Again, agreed. I have not seen 13 second stock e36s either.

But mid 14 second ones are simply not being driven to potential. Same goes for bolt on cars. Not in the 13's.
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  #131  
Old 09-29-2012, 11:29 AM
Tomjh Tomjh is offline
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I was shopping my car around the olimpics when an ad for the ATS came on . I usually fast forward past them but I watched it . My wife who drives a Lexus and does not care much about cars looked up and said You are not thinking about buying a Caddy are you. That is still the perception they will have to over come. The transmission problem will also apply to the automatic as it will be a 6 speed Vs the eight for the f30. Which will also effect gas mileage. The Caddy was also designed to be somewhat bland to sell better in China, they seem to like the understated.
Caddy is thinking long term and it is good for BMW to have some competion as my only complaint with my car was they charge too must for certain options . Also I don't tink the residual are not going to be to good on the Caddy for a while at best.
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  #132  
Old 09-29-2012, 11:36 AM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The takeaway that needs to be hammered home is this:

The target customer for BMW is a status-seeking luxury car buyer in his 40's, not some performance-enthusiast sportsman in his 30's. The key to BMW's success has been making yuppie luxury cars with the perception of sports enthusiasm. They're trying to attract me, someone whose really in it for the badge but wants to be viewed like he's driving a sportscar-in-sheep's-clothing, makes me look cool, not like some stodgy dad in a Lexus.

Point being that enthusiasts are collateral damage, just a happy accident to BMW's overall marketing strategy. They sell so few Sport models and M-Sport models that it's not significant enough to move the needle. But without their perception of "sporty performance" they lose me as I don't want to be seen in a car like that. If I were only in it for the badge, I'd go Mercedes E Class. Because of their sports enthusiast marking, I am just as well perceived (if not better) in a BMW 3.

So if the F30 is getting bigger and longer and wider with a proudly marketed "luxury" line and a default "comfort" mode it sucks for the performance enthusiasts but it's not some "mistake" on BMW's part. They know exactly what they're doing. Cadillac, along with every other brand that's tried and failed, can't succeed because they're not perceived to be a "sporty" brand. We have you enthusiasts to thank for that protection. The ATS's ad campaign, TV commercials, it's all about some 30-something's racing around twisty highways in Europe. It's all an attempt to "BMW-ize" their brand. Going to take decades and at least one fabulous car to do that.

BJ
You have NO IDEA what BMW's success is built on. You didn't know what BMW was until July 2007. I and many others here have been keen observers of BMW's growth and success since before you got your first Big Wheel. Stick to what you know. Otherwise keep your self-aggrandizing trap shut. You have now moved to the point where you are nothing more than a disraction and have nothing useful to contribute to the legitimate discussion on Bimmerfest.
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  #133  
Old 09-29-2012, 12:10 PM
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windsor027 windsor027 is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
You have NO IDEA what BMW's success is built on. You didn't know what BMW was until July 2007. I and many others here have been keen observers of BMW's growth and success since before you got your first Big Wheel. Stick to what you know. Otherwise keep your self-aggrandizing trap shut. You have now moved to the point where you are nothing more than a disraction and have nothing useful to contribute to the legitimate discussion on Bimmerfest.
Well that is not very polite. BJ and I have had our differences but I also find him humorous and intuitive. There is something called the "ignore" button you know.
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  #134  
Old 09-29-2012, 12:13 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
You have NO IDEA what BMW's success is built on. You didn't know what BMW was until July 2007. I and many others here have been keen observers of BMW's growth and success since before you got your first Big Wheel. Stick to what you know. Otherwise keep your self-aggrandizing trap shut. You have now moved to the point where you are nothing more than a disraction and have nothing useful to contribute to the legitimate discussion on Bimmerfest.
I learned to drive in my father's 1980 7 Series, spent hundreds of hours behind the wheel of my mother's 1990 3 Series.

Since you bought your 2006 Beige 330, I'm in my third 3 Series having owned a 2007 E93, a 2009 E90, and a 2013 F30.

I'm an F30 owner. This is the F30 forum. You can take your old-school BMW beliefs that are contradictory to BMW's current marketing strategy back to the E90 forum in which you belong. If you intend to stay here, I suggest you listen to what's changed in the 7 years since you last purchased a BMW product as you clearly have a lot to learn.

BJ
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  #135  
Old 09-29-2012, 12:18 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by windsor027 View Post
Well that is not very polite. BJ and I have had our differences but I also find him humorous and intuitive. There is something called the "ignore" button you know.
Thanks Windsor.

While I spend some time being humorous with the rest of the guys here, occasionally we get serious. Sometimes people can't understand the difference, not sure what these E90 diehards get out of being here anyway. They seem to be down on our F30's, angry at BMW for making the car bigger, not sure why it's so important for them to try to make us miserable when we're actually very happy.

BJ
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  #136  
Old 09-29-2012, 12:25 PM
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justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Thanks Windsor.

While I spend some time being humorous with the rest of the guys here, occasionally we get serious. Sometimes people can't understand the difference, not sure what these E90 diehards get out of being here anyway. They seem to be down on our F30's, angry at BMW for making the car bigger, not sure why it's so important for them to try to make us miserable when we're actually very happy.

BJ
Previous model owners trying to downplay the new model is nothing new. Why they need to waste their time in the F30 forum is beyond me. Certain posters here must feel like it's their job to talk **** about the F30 and point out every thing they think is wrong with it.

The other forum doesn't have anywhere near the troll issue this one does.
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  #137  
Old 09-29-2012, 12:29 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Again, agreed. I have not seen 13 second stock e36s either.

But mid 14 second ones are simply not being driven to potential. Same goes for bolt on cars. Not in the 13's.
We are on the same page then. I was just trying to stick up for the N52 a little bit.
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  #138  
Old 09-29-2012, 12:59 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
We are on the same page then. I was just trying to stick up for the N52 a little bit.
That is fine.

I like the way it sounds.

But I also never leave anything stock.

I have liked how the S52 responds to bolt ons(I showed a 15whp gain from a $60 M50 manifold swap) and the N20 will be even better.

I think the N52 is decent stock when compared to the S52 as you mentioned are similar on paper. But I also find it more complicated and harder to get HP out of unless going the FI route. The S52, largely due to age and simplicity means more bolt ons and more simple ways of extracting power(such as the M50 manifold I gave).

I have just become spoiled in regards to bang for the buck. I did my FI project on the cheap, even the tune was second hand. I showed a 150whp gain on the dyno(on the second hand tune, more tweaking needed) with $2-2300 in second hand parts. Much more left on the table, only the head gasket is holding me back. I love that the S52 offers that and I LOVE the sound.

If I had similar years invested in the N52, which might be the S52 all over again in 5-10 years, I would wax on about it too.
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  #139  
Old 09-29-2012, 01:08 PM
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windsor027 windsor027 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Thanks Windsor.

While I spend some time being humorous with the rest of the guys here, occasionally we get serious. Sometimes people can't understand the difference, not sure what these E90 diehards get out of being here anyway. They seem to be down on our F30's, angry at BMW for making the car bigger, not sure why it's so important for them to try to make us miserable when we're actually very happy.

BJ
Personally BJ I find it very amusing, especially the part where people read a few auto magazine articles and without driving and or buying the car they are experts in what it can and can't do. They are very entertaining fellows actually, misguided but entertaining.

One more week my friend and I will get to enjoy what you have been enjoying for a few weeks now. A brand new F30.
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  #140  
Old 09-29-2012, 01:16 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsor027 View Post
Personally BJ I find it very amusing, especially the part where people read a few auto magazine articles and without driving and or buying the car they are experts in what it can and can't do. They are very entertaining fellows actually, misguided but entertaining.

One more week my friend and I will get to enjoy what you have been enjoying for a few weeks now. A brand new F30.
I'm excited for you. Just in time for the leaves to change. Fall is a great time for a new ride.

Can you post up your build sheet? Forgot the options you put on the car.

BJ
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  #141  
Old 09-29-2012, 01:21 PM
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windsor027 windsor027 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I'm excited for you. Just in time for the leaves to change. Fall is a great time for a new ride.

Can you post up your build sheet? Forgot the options you put on the car.

BJ
Sure I will on Monday, I have it on my work computer.

This is what I got.

Alpine White
Sportline
6-MT
Dynamic handling package
NAV
Front Heated seats
HK
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  #142  
Old 09-29-2012, 01:25 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
You have NO IDEA what BMW's success is built on. You didn't know what BMW was until July 2007. I and many others here have been keen observers of BMW's growth and success since before you got your first Big Wheel. Stick to what you know. Otherwise keep your self-aggrandizing trap shut. You have now moved to the point where you are nothing more than a disraction and have nothing useful to contribute to the legitimate discussion on Bimmerfest.
Some of them are hell bent to eliminate any legit discussion of competitions in this forum. They will act like idiots so you get offended and play into their game. At some point they hope to legitimately ask you to be banned.

Don't fall for it.

Unfortunately you have to weed through the noise if you want to have some good comparisons here, this is just the nature of this forum.

Last edited by dtc100; 09-29-2012 at 01:30 PM.
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  #143  
Old 09-29-2012, 01:29 PM
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Hey Jon, if your reading this you should add a "trolls only" section to the F30 forum.
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  #144  
Old 09-29-2012, 01:35 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Hey Jon, if your reading this you should add a "trolls only" section to the F30 forum.
Here is a good example of someone who had never added anything of substance in this thread, yet like his master, can't stop asking the moderators to enforce sanctions on others who they do not agree.

Last edited by dtc100; 09-29-2012 at 01:39 PM.
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  #145  
Old 09-29-2012, 01:45 PM
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justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
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Here is a good example of someone who had never added anything of substance in this thread, yet like his master, can't stop asking the moderators to enforce sanctions on others who they do not agree.
Funny you quote me and consider yourself a troll.
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  #146  
Old 09-29-2012, 02:23 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Originally Posted by windsor027 View Post
Well that is not very polite. BJ and I have had our differences but I also find him humorous and intuitive. There is something called the "ignore" button you know.
I have come to the defense of BJ's brand of satire and humor probably more than just about any other Bimmerfester over the years. But, what he's been doing is trying to create a new reality about where BMW has been and where they are now. One of the main characteristics of Bimmerfest that draws people here is the reasoned, balanced discussion we have about BMW. BJ has pissed off people many times over the years by hijacking threads with his satirical banter. But, there's a difference between that and trying to redefine reality and stifle other's opinions. I'm not a fan of dct100's point of view, and I've commented on that way more than I've ever commented on BJ's posts, and justinnum1 makes a good point, every time there is a model change there are naysayers who say BMW is going to hell in a handbasket. There is still no shortage of E46 fans who think the E9x marked the beginning of the end for BMW. If that's too much for BJ to handle then he needs to take a break from Bimmerfest for a couple of years rather try to create his own reality.

I am also personally offended at having my positions misrepresented by BJ. Clearly he either hasn't actually read the things I've posted over the past seven years or he hasn't comprehended them or he is willfully choosing to misrepresent them. I have no problem standing on the helpful contribution I have made to Bimmerfest over the past seven years. It is not uncommon for me to get a PM asking for my input.

I'm all about having fun on Bimmerfest and I have a lot of it. But willfully posting misinformation to advance one's own agenda or stifle opposing opinions is not my idea of fun.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 09-29-2012 at 03:27 PM.
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  #147  
Old 09-29-2012, 02:25 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
I agree, thats why i said some.

Slightly off topic, but i walked into an audi dealer today to check out the new S4, walked around for 5 min, wasn't approached by anyone and walked right out. They did have an R8 GT, damn that car is nice.
I guess they have experienced sales people working there who can spot a tire kicker as soon as they enter their parking lot.

Last edited by beden1; 09-29-2012 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 09-29-2012, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I guess they have experienced sales people working there who can spot a tire kicker as soon as they entire their parking lot.
Maybe, i am getting fed up with my dealer and how long its taking my car to get here. I am about to get 7K cash back from my dealer. Audi would have had an easy sale if they let me drive the car and i liked it, not to mention my family has purchased porsches from the same dealer. Everything happens for a reason tho and im glad to report my car is now on a boat

Probably saw my F30 and figured i just got a car, but what they didnt know is its about to be returned and the dealer is giving me a bunch of cash. It's all good, i will just never recommend that dealer to anyone.

And work on your spelling
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Last edited by justinnum1; 09-29-2012 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 09-29-2012, 02:40 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Maybe, i am getting fed up with my dealer and how long its taking my car to get here. I am about to get 7K cash back from my dealer. Audi would have had an easy sale if they let me drive the car and i liked it, not to mention my family has purchased porsches from the same dealer. Everything happens for a reason tho and im glad to report my car is now on a boat

Probably saw my F30 and figured i just got a car, but what they didnt know is its about to be returned and the dealer is giving me a bunch of cash. It's all good, i will just never recommend that dealer to anyone.

And work on your spelling
Corrected, and thanks for pointing out my mistake, rare as it may be.

If you were serious about an S4, you could have always found a sales person to assist you.

I normally call the dealer in advance to let them know what car(s) I have an interest in driving, and they are usually ready for me when I arrive.

Last edited by beden1; 09-29-2012 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 09-29-2012, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Corrected, and thanks for pointing out my mistake, rare as it may be.

If you were serious about an S4, you could have always found a sales person to assist you.

I usually call the dealer in advance to let them know what car(s) I have an interest in driving, and they are typically ready for me when I arrive.
I was on my way home from work. I was the only guy in the dealership lol. I expected at the very least to have been asked if i needed any help. One of the first times i have been in a dealership with 10 sales guys doing nothing and not one thought it would be a good idea to ask the customer if they needed any assistance. Pretty much told me everything i needed to know about that dealer.

On another side not, i was talking with race car driver Bill Adam the other day. Real nice guy and he happens to drive for Champion Racing(i was at Champion Audi, the one in coral springs, i have gotten porsches from them before at copans). He drives an R8 for them, pretty storied racing history and he is in the canadian racing HOF.
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