Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)

F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151  
Old 09-29-2012, 03:05 PM
beden1's Avatar
beden1 beden1 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: PA & FL
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,697
Mein Auto: '11 E93 335is & '08 535xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
I was on my way home from work. I was the only guy in the dealership lol. I expected at the very least to have been asked if i needed any help. One of the first times i have been in a dealership with 10 sales guys doing nothing and not one thought it would be a good idea to ask the customer if they needed any assistance. Pretty much told me everything i needed to know about that dealer.

On another side not, i was talking with race car driver Bill Adam the other day. Real nice guy and he happens to drive for Champion Racing(i was at Champion Audi, the one in coral springs, i have gotten porsches from them before at copans). He drives an R8 for them, pretty storied racing history and he is in the canadian racing HOF.
I bought a super clean used '04 MB S600 with 4,800 miles on it from Champion Porsche in '05 for a great deal. I've also been to the Champion Audi dealership in Coral Springs a number of times. My last time there, they had just placed an R8 cabriolet on the floor loaded with all options. It was super sweet.

I found both dealerships to be very friendly and helpful.

If you owned Porsches before, why are you driving a 328i?
Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 09-29-2012, 03:07 PM
GVFlyer's Avatar
GVFlyer GVFlyer is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 636
Mein Auto: E92 M3/E90 335i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Corrected, and thanks for pointing out my mistake, rare as it may be.

If you were serious about an S4, you could have always found a sales person to assist you.

I normally call the dealer in advance to let them know what car(s) I have an interest in driving, and they are usually ready for me when I arrive.
You or your EA? You sound like someone with a very full calendar.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 09-29-2012, 03:15 PM
justinnum1's Avatar
justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: South Florida
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,734
Mein Auto: F30 328i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I bought a super clean used '04 MB S600 with 4,800 miles on it from Champion Porsche in '05 for a great deal. I've also been to the Champion Audi dealership in Coral Springs a number of times. My last time there, they had just placed an R8 cabriolet on the floor loaded with all options. It was super sweet.

I found both dealerships to be very friendly and helpful.

If you owned Porsches before, why are you driving a 328i?
Why not? It's a great car. And i have been doing a ton of highway driving latley and enjoy getting close to 40mpg

I am looking to pick up a boxster probably 2014 year, love the new body style but not willing to be a early model owner of a porsche again. Had a few issues with a 996.

Picking up my 335msport in a few weeks, very excited.
__________________
F30 335 Estoril Blue Msport with performance exhasut and black grilles

Last edited by justinnum1; 09-29-2012 at 03:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 09-29-2012, 03:46 PM
windsor027's Avatar
windsor027 windsor027 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: McLean VA
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,675
Mein Auto: 2013 335i and 2014 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
I have come to the defense of BJ's brand of satire and humor probably more than just about any other Bimmerfester over the years. But, what he's been doing is trying to create a new reality about where BMW has been and where they are now. One of the main characteristics of Bimmerfest that draws people here is the reasoned, balanced discussion we have about BMW. BJ has pissed off people many times over the years by hijacking threads with his satirical banter. But, there's a difference between that and trying to redefine reality and stifle other's opinions. I'm not a fan of dct100's point of view, and I've commented on that way more than I've ever commented on BJ's posts, and justinnum1 makes a good point, every time there is a model change there are naysayers who say BMW is going to hell in a handbasket. There is still no shortage of E46 fans who think the E9x marked the beginning of the end for BMW. If that's too much for BJ to handle then he needs to take a break from Bimmerfest for a couple of years rather try to create his own reality.

I am also personally offended at having my positions misrepresented by BJ. Clearly he either hasn't actually read the things I've posted over the past seven years or he hasn't comprehended them or he is willfully choosing to misrepresent them. I have no problem standing on the helpful contribution I have made to Bimmerfest over the past seven years. It is not uncommon for me to get a PM asking for my input.

I'm all about having fun on Bimmerfest and I have a lot of it. But willfully posting misinformation to advance one's own agenda or stifle opposing opinions is not my idea of fun.
I respect what you said and lets face it we have all been guilt of misinformation one time or another. However there are certain characters who, without having any vested interest in an F30, somehow they want to come across as experts because they may have taken a test drive around a neighborhood and/or read a few reviews.

The ultimate purpose of these boards is to share information about your car..you know the one that you own or have extensively tested and put hard earned cash down, or the one that you tested and decided your money is better spend somewhere else. Not to belittle or praise rides you don't even own or test but you heard some journalist say this and that. To that notion I will let BJ defend his posts but this guy just acquired a 45K so I can understand his enthusiasm.
__________________
2014 X3 35i Dynamic Handling Package| Cold Weather Package | NAV | Premium hi-fi system | Driver Assistance Package.

2013 335i Sportline | M-adaptive | HK | NAV | PDC | Heated Front seats |6-speed MT.

2011 X5 35d Great SUV gone

2009 C350 Mercedes Gone 7-31-2012, good car but boooooooooring.

2008 X5 4.8i - Turned in 1/24/11 They created the Lemon law because of this SUV.
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 09-29-2012, 05:09 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Norcal
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,694
Mein Auto: 2011 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
. I'm not a fan of dct100's point of view, and I've commented on that way more than I've ever commented on BJ's posts,
You came across as if you were shocked BJ tried to redefine your own point of view

Anyway, I happened to drive by one of our local Caddy dealers. The only 3.6L ATS with performance trim they had was an all wheel drive. So I drove it.

First let me agree with you the steering was very light, precise but light. Although it tightened up as the car picked up speed. Initially I was very unhappy about it, but then I started revving the V6. The thing sounded so labored and strained above 4k I quickly forgot about the light steering.

Although I knew no 4 cylinders or V6s could rival I6's smooth revving nature, the 3.6 simply gave me the impression that it wanted me to shift gears at 3k and be done with. The little tachometer tugged at the left corner seemed to underscore that notion.

But then magic happened. As I went on a twisty road with no traffic, I told the sales guy hold on I was going to push this thing hard in sport and manual mode. All was forgotten. The entire chassis was transformed into a unified piece of attack machine, it shot through the bends and corners like a bullet train on the rail.

Never have I had experienced the same in any of the cars in this segment. The F30 335i sport I drove during the BMW Olympic Team Drive event took the same route, I liked it over the A4 and C class, but this ATS was just refreshingly different.

Once we got back to the local traffic, I was again reminded of the light steering and labored rev.

So the 3.6 has no lack of power to attack the corner or straight, just as long as you can overcome the less than refined V6 above the mid range, you will be rewarded of a new experience. In the street, you put it in standard touring mode, it never revs high so you don't have to think above the strained high rev.

But because the exhaust sounded so sweet I kept stepping on it to hear it, if I went a little overboard, would again be reminded of the unrefined high revving.

As for the light steering, it was also forgotten as soon as you put it in the attack mode. I am afraid the only way to retain the kind of steering connection to the road surface, through the rack and tires, is to keep your 3 with the hydraulic system. No EPS system will save us on this one, at least not likely in this segment.

The car interior was otherwise very well stitched together. If you are not in the habit to push it, it will be a very plush and quiet ride, just as long as you do not put it in sport mode, because the suspension will be hard. This car did not have MRC, only the sport suspension.

I didn't really care about trying or looking at anything else about the car. My initial impression is, if I wanted to take my car out on a twisty just to have some fun, I definitely want to be in this ATS 3.6, but the rest of the way, I will have to choose between hearing the nice exhaust, and reminded of its less refined engine.

It will be a tough decision.

Last edited by dtc100; 09-29-2012 at 05:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 09-29-2012, 05:56 PM
beden1's Avatar
beden1 beden1 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: PA & FL
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,697
Mein Auto: '11 E93 335is & '08 535xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by GVFlyer View Post
You or your EA? You sound like someone with a very full calendar.
Is there a problem with calling the dealer before so you don't waste your time waiting for them to have the cars ready for test drives?
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 09-29-2012, 06:20 PM
GVFlyer's Avatar
GVFlyer GVFlyer is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 636
Mein Auto: E92 M3/E90 335i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Is there a problem with calling the dealer before so you don't waste your time waiting for them to have the cars ready for test drives?
I wasn't being critical, just making an observation that was apparently incorrect. I work with people that would probably have their executive assistant make that call then put the appointment on their calendar.
__________________

Last edited by GVFlyer; 09-29-2012 at 06:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 09-29-2012, 07:06 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
Moderator
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,216
Mein Auto: 2014 328i Sport Line MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
You came across as if you were shocked BJ tried to redefine your own point of view

Anyway, I happened to drive by one of our local Caddy dealers. The only 3.6L ATS with performance trim they had was an all wheel drive. So I drove it.

First let me agree with you the steering was very light, precise but light. Although it tightened up as the car picked up speed. Initially I was very unhappy about it, but then I started revving the V6. The thing sounded so labored and strained above 4k I quickly forgot about the light steering.

Although I knew no 4 cylinders or V6s could rival I6's smooth revving nature, the 3.6 simply gave me the impression that it wanted me to shift gears at 3k and be done with. The little tachometer tugged at the left corner seemed to underscore that notion.

But then magic happened. As I went on a twisty road with no traffic, I told the sales guy hold on I was going to push this thing hard in sport and manual mode. All was forgotten. The entire chassis was transformed into a unified piece of attack machine, it shot through the bends and corners like a bullet train on the rail.

Never have I had experienced the same in any of the cars in this segment. The F30 335i sport I drove during the BMW Olympic Team Drive event took the same route, I liked it over the A4 and C class, but this ATS was just refreshingly different.

Once we got back to the local traffic, I was again reminded of the light steering and labored rev.

So the 3.6 has no lack of power to attack the corner or straight, just as long as you can overcome the less than refined V6 above the mid range, you will be rewarded of a new experience. In the street, you put it in standard touring mode, it never revs high so you don't have to think above the strained high rev.

But because the exhaust sounded so sweet I kept stepping on it to hear it, if I went a little overboard, would again be reminded of the unrefined high revving.

As for the light steering, it was also forgotten as soon as you put it in the attack mode. I am afraid the only way to retain the kind of steering connection to the road surface, through the rack and tires, is to keep your 3 with the hydraulic system. No EPS system will save us on this one, at least not likely in this segment.

The car interior was otherwise very well stitched together. If you are not in the habit to push it, it will be a very plush and quiet ride, just as long as you do not put it in sport mode, because the suspension will be hard. This car did not have MRC, only the sport suspension.

I didn't really care about trying or looking at anything else about the car. My initial impression is, if I wanted to take my car out on a twisty just to have some fun, I definitely want to be in this ATS 3.6, but the rest of the way, I will have to choose between hearing the nice exhaust, and reminded of its less refined engine.

It will be a tough decision.
We all have our own thoughts and opinions but in my experience and it's more than a short test drive (3 years of ownership) the Caddy V6 is a peach of an engine. No it may not shoot to the redline but it makes great power and is smooth. It of course will have a different character than an I6. I'm also not sure it's fair to assess an engine that is not broken in.
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 09-29-2012, 07:09 PM
boltjaM3s's Avatar
boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is online now
BMW Platinum Visa® Member
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,712
Mein Auto: BMW L328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by windsor027 View Post
Sure I will on Monday, I have it on my work computer.

This is what I got.

Alpine White
Sportline
6-MT
Dynamic handling package
NAV
Front Heated seats
HK
Sweet. Which color interior?

BJ
__________________

2013 BMW L328i Luxury Sedan | Premium Package | Technology Package | Lighting Package | Steptronic® | PDC | Apps
Mineral Grey Metallic | Saddle Leather | Anthracite | Camera | Sirius | Rolex | Trophy Wife | Beach House | Status Package®
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 09-29-2012, 07:24 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Norcal
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,694
Mein Auto: 2011 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
We all have our own thoughts and opinions but in my experience and it's more than a short test drive (3 years of ownership) the Caddy V6 is a peach of an engine. No it may not shoot to the redline but it makes great power and is smooth. It of course will have a different character than an I6. I'm also not sure it's fair to assess an engine that is not broken in.
Unfortunatly the ATS will be judged by many during the initial test drives. I now understand why the C&D guy said the 2.0T was rough above 5k RPM. I don't think the more pronounced vibration of the V6 above 4k RPM will correct itself after the break in period. But then again I am not familiar with GM V6s.

Of course it is tough comparing to the BMW I6 in smooth revving department. But if someone has been driving a Camaro or Mustang, he will probably have a different view of the ATS V6 than mine.

I went prepared to rev that V6, after all I liked the fact it was an N/A engine and the power was at the higher RPM band. As I said, in racing mode, you don't think about the coarse engine sound at redline, to the contrary the sound and vibration stimulate you as you push the car to the limit.

But this is a luxury sport sedan, most people will only rev it in the street from stoplight to stoplight.

Last edited by dtc100; 09-29-2012 at 07:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #161  
Old 09-29-2012, 07:30 PM
justinnum1's Avatar
justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: South Florida
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,734
Mein Auto: F30 328i Sport
The suspension in the ATS does sound pretty nice, but since i like in south florida it would be useless to me. Wish we had some curvy roads, when i go to CT i love driving around there in greenwich and pound ridge.
__________________
F30 335 Estoril Blue Msport with performance exhasut and black grilles
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 09-29-2012, 07:30 PM
Chris90's Avatar
Chris90 Chris90 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Massachusetts
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 13,797
Mein Auto: '04 330i
I can't think of many V6's I'm a fan of: NSX had a sweet V6, GTI had a nice V6 but that's a VR6, which I think is closer to an inline six.

Some like the Nissan V6s but not me, I think they sound like arse.

So glad BMW hasn't switched to V6s.
__________________
"When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice." - Cherokee Expression
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 09-29-2012, 10:13 PM
GVFlyer's Avatar
GVFlyer GVFlyer is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 636
Mein Auto: E92 M3/E90 335i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
I can't think of many V6's I'm a fan of: NSX had a sweet V6, GTI had a nice V6 but that's a VR6, which I think is closer to an inline six.

Some like the Nissan V6s but not me, I think they sound like arse.

So glad BMW hasn't switched to V6s.
And they run out of breath and start to thrash well before the red line. Nasty engines.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 09-30-2012, 04:29 AM
windsor027's Avatar
windsor027 windsor027 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: McLean VA
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,675
Mein Auto: 2013 335i and 2014 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Sweet. Which color interior?

BJ
I didn't get premium because I wanted the leatherette seats because of the dog. So its black with the red accent. Also didn't get the aluminium trim because a lot of people have complained about glare so I went with the glossy black. I might regret it later because it maybe too much black in the car.
__________________
2014 X3 35i Dynamic Handling Package| Cold Weather Package | NAV | Premium hi-fi system | Driver Assistance Package.

2013 335i Sportline | M-adaptive | HK | NAV | PDC | Heated Front seats |6-speed MT.

2011 X5 35d Great SUV gone

2009 C350 Mercedes Gone 7-31-2012, good car but boooooooooring.

2008 X5 4.8i - Turned in 1/24/11 They created the Lemon law because of this SUV.

Last edited by windsor027; 09-30-2012 at 05:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 09-30-2012, 07:11 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Norcal
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,694
Mein Auto: 2011 328i
BTW, it was confirmed the MT reviewer misspoke. He meant to say the ATS 2.0T needed to get into the 3rd gear at the end of the 0-60 run, resulting in slower time.

Scott also said he drove the same ATS at the press event last time, did not recall the ATS shifter was that bad. The car had since added maybe 3k miles on it.

So the ATS 2.0T in the MT test is a pre-production model. I am looking forward to a review taken cars from dealer stocks. Judging by my own experience though, I think both reviews hit the nail on the head.

BMW is more refined and mature, in the customary German fashion, they hit all the engineering detail right and to precision, from weight, to power delivery, to speed, to fuel economy and more.

But the ATS is fun and refreshing, mainly due to its well tuned chassis and exhaust (for the 3.6), and also because, well it is all new. It has the usual American made flaws, but it can easily appeal to one's emotion when taken out on a twisty. And that emotional element is what defines this segment, or at least defines why many of us drive a BMW.

I am not saying the new F30 lacks emotional appeal, but the new ATS has more of it. It will be a tough call.

Last edited by dtc100; 09-30-2012 at 07:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 09-30-2012, 07:27 AM
boltjaM3s's Avatar
boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is online now
BMW Platinum Visa® Member
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,712
Mein Auto: BMW L328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post

But the ATS is fun and refreshing, mainly due to its well tuned chassis. It has the usual American made flaws, but it can easily appeal to one's emotion when taken out on a twisty. And that emotional element is what defines this segment, or at least defines why many of us drive a BMW.
Nothing the ATS does will move the BMW 3 Series needle.

Enthusiast Buyers: At most 10% of the 3 Series population, very few will switch because the ATS doesn't do anything significantly better than a 335i Sport model and the Cadillac brand embarrasses.

Luxury Buyers: At least 90% of the 3 Series population, no one will switch because of the chasms in quality perception, age perception, sport perception, and brand perception.

The only brand that will be impacted by the ATS is Cadillac. They've just launched a smaller, cheaper car for the potential XTS or CTS customer. They'll get some Chevrolet and Buick owners too, the ATS being only $3,000 more than the top of their offerings.

GM knows this, by the way. You market a sporty Cadillac directly at BMW to make Cadillac, Buick, and Chevrolet buyers excited. So you don't lose more GM customers to the import makers. This is a defensive move, not an offensive one. If you took a few marketing classes, you'd understand this.

BJ
__________________

2013 BMW L328i Luxury Sedan | Premium Package | Technology Package | Lighting Package | Steptronic® | PDC | Apps
Mineral Grey Metallic | Saddle Leather | Anthracite | Camera | Sirius | Rolex | Trophy Wife | Beach House | Status Package®

Last edited by boltjaM3s; 09-30-2012 at 07:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 09-30-2012, 07:35 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,223
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'13 F30 RWD
Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Nothing the ATS does will move the BMW 3 Series needle.

Enthusiast Buyers: At most 10% of the 3 Series population, very few will switch because the ATS doesn't do anything significantly better than a 335i Sport model and the Cadillac brand embarrasses.

Luxury Buyers: At least 90% of the 3 Series population, no one will switch because of the chasms in quality perception, age perception, sport perception, and brand perception.

The only brand that will be impacted by the ATS is Cadillac. They've just launched a smaller, cheaper car for the potential XTS or CTS customer. They'll get some Chevrolet and Buick owners too, the ATS being only $3,000 more than the top of their offerings.

GM knows this, by the way. You market a sporty Cadillac directly at BMW to make Cadillac, Buick, and Chevrolet buyers excited. So you don't lose more GM customers to the import makers. This is a defensive move, not an offensive one. If you took a few marketing classes, you'd understand this.

BJ
The ATS also allows a bit of repositioning in it's product line.

The CTS never quite fit. It was more like a 5 in size while being a bit too large and heavy to be a real 3 competitor. Now the ATS gets to target the 3 specifically, it allows the CTS to grow a bit more and allow a higher price spread to be more of a target for the 5. The CTS will have more driver focus and involvement than the 5 which has lost it's edge a bit with each generation after the E39. Now the F10 is a shortened 7 more than a slightly larger 3. So Cadillac has the challenge of making us forget the CTS was marketed as a competitor for the 3 and that it's price and size can soon compete with the 5.
__________________
'98 M Roadster+'06 Saab 9-5 Combi 5mt
'11 Saab 9-3 XWD
'13 M-Sport 328i 6mt FOR SALE


E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ blower@13lbs of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: ForgeStar F14 19's summer-OZ Superleggera 17's winter/Rogue Catback/Integral Audio/AFE intake scoop/BMS stage 1
Reply With Quote
  #168  
Old 09-30-2012, 08:20 AM
justinnum1's Avatar
justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: South Florida
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,734
Mein Auto: F30 328i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
BTW, it was confirmed the MT reviewer misspoke. He meant to say the ATS 2.0T needed to get into the 3rd gear at the end of the 0-60 run, resulting in slower time.

Scott also said he drove the same ATS at the press event last time, did not recall the ATS shifter was that bad. The car had since added maybe 3k miles on it.

So the ATS 2.0T in the MT test is a pre-production model. I am looking forward to a review taken cars from dealer stocks. Judging by my own experience though, I think both reviews hit the nail on the head.

BMW is more refined and mature, in the customary German fashion, they hit all the engineering detail right and to precision, from weight, to power delivery, to speed, to fuel economy and more.

But the ATS is fun and refreshing, mainly due to its well tuned chassis and exhaust (for the 3.6), and also because, well it is all new. It has the usual American made flaws, but it can easily appeal to one's emotion when taken out on a twisty. And that emotional element is what defines this segment, or at least defines why many of us drive a BMW.

I am not saying the new F30 lacks emotional appeal, but the new ATS has more of it. It will be a tough call.
In your opinion of course, which doesn't mean a whole lot since you have been bashing the F30 for a while now.
__________________
F30 335 Estoril Blue Msport with performance exhasut and black grilles
Reply With Quote
  #169  
Old 09-30-2012, 08:20 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Norcal
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,694
Mein Auto: 2011 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Nothing the ATS does will move the BMW 3 Series needle.

Enthusiast Buyers: At most 10% of the 3 Series population, very few will switch because the ATS doesn't do anything significantly better than a 335i Sport model and the Cadillac brand embarrasses.

Luxury Buyers: At least 90% of the 3 Series population, no one will switch because of the chasms in quality perception, age perception, sport perception, and brand perception.

The only brand that will be impacted by the ATS is Cadillac. They've just launched a smaller, cheaper car for the potential XTS or CTS customer. They'll get some Chevrolet and Buick owners too, the ATS being only $3,000 more than the top of their offerings.

GM knows this, by the way. You market a sporty Cadillac directly at BMW to make Cadillac, Buick, and Chevrolet buyers excited. So you don't lose more GM customers to the import makers. This is a defensive move, not an offensive one. If you took a few marketing classes, you'd understand this.

BJ
Over at any ATS or GM forums, there are plenty of formal and current BMW drivers who have already ordered the new ATS, or ready to do so. Of course GM can't expect to grab the majority of the 3 drivers. But if they could just grab 5% from each brand, including those moving up from the non-luxury models, and keep many GM drivers from leaving, that would be more than a success.

I do agree with you on their marketing ploy. They succeeded in getting the attention at the expense of the 3 series. If they continue to put their money where their mouth is, fine tune their engines, transmissions and CUE, they can win on the Buy American sentiment alone.

BTW, I know you do not accept this, and I agree supply shortage has some to do with the latest decline in the F30 sales, but the strength of the G and C sales has already moved the needle. Ultimately all manufactures must look at the bottom line, how many units do you push out to this crowded market each month, regardless how much the car mags like yours over the other. A 5% enthusiasts leaving your base could make or break the bean counters' pay.

Last edited by dtc100; 09-30-2012 at 08:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #170  
Old 09-30-2012, 08:49 AM
boltjaM3s's Avatar
boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is online now
BMW Platinum Visa® Member
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,712
Mein Auto: BMW L328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Over at any ATS or GM forums, there are plenty of formal and current BMW drivers who have already ordered the new ATS, or ready to do so. Of course GM can't expect to grab the majority of the 3 drivers. But if they could just grab 5% from each brand, including those moving up from the non-luxury models, and keep many GM drivers from leaving, that would be more than a success.

I do agree with you on their marketing ploy. They succeeded in getting the attention at the expense of the 3 series. If they continue to put their money where their mouth is, fine tune their engines, transmissions and CUE, they can win on the Buy American sentiment alone.

BTW, I know you do not accept this, and I agree supply shortage has some to do with the latest decline in the F30 sales, but the strength of the G and C sales has already moved the needle. Ultimately all manufactures must look at the bottom line, how many units do you push out to this crowded market each month, regardless how much the car mags like yours over the other. A 5% enthusiasts leaving your base could make or break the bean counters' pay.
Good post, I agree.

BJ
__________________

2013 BMW L328i Luxury Sedan | Premium Package | Technology Package | Lighting Package | Steptronic® | PDC | Apps
Mineral Grey Metallic | Saddle Leather | Anthracite | Camera | Sirius | Rolex | Trophy Wife | Beach House | Status Package®
Reply With Quote
  #171  
Old 09-30-2012, 08:54 AM
beden1's Avatar
beden1 beden1 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: PA & FL
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,697
Mein Auto: '11 E93 335is & '08 535xi
No BMWs listed in the top cars that the auto writers would buy for under $100,000.

"As automotive writers, we're always asked what our favorite cars are or which cars we would buy if we had the money. To answer the latter query, Vanity Fair writer Brett Berk polled 13 scribes to see what they'd pick for under $100,000. An interesting mix of vehicles ensues. Some of the choices stretched the imaginary budget to its max while others went all bang-for-the-buck on us, but what's most surprising about the list is that more than half the cars on it are available with a manual transmission.

Of course cars like the Porsche 911, Ford Mustang and a couple of Mercedes-Benz AMG cars make the cut, but there were also a handful of choices that caught us off guard. Jonny Lieberman of Motor Trend chose the Subaru BRZ, Autoblog weekend editor Alex Nunez would love commuting in a brown Tesla Model S Performance, and Jake Fisher of Consumer Reports picked the Hyundai Veloster... non-turbo!"

Here's the full list of what these 13 auto writers would take home if given a sub-$100,000 car:
Mercedes-Benz E63 Wagon
Audi A7
Mini John Cooper Works Convertible
Porsche 911 Carrera S
Hyundai Veloster
Porsche Cayenne S Hybrid
Mercedes-Benz CLS63 AMG
Jaguar XF Supercharged
Lotus Evora
Subaru BRZ
Tesla Model S Performance
Ford Mustang Boss 302
Land Rover Range Rover Evoque

Last edited by beden1; 09-30-2012 at 08:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 09-30-2012, 09:06 AM
justinnum1's Avatar
justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: South Florida
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,734
Mein Auto: F30 328i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
No BMWs listed in the top cars that the auto writers would buy for under $100,000.

"As automotive writers, we're always asked what our favorite cars are or which cars we would buy if we had the money. To answer the latter query, Vanity Fair writer Brett Berk polled 13 scribes to see what they'd pick for under $100,000. An interesting mix of vehicles ensues. Some of the choices stretched the imaginary budget to its max while others went all bang-for-the-buck on us, but what's most surprising about the list is that more than half the cars on it are available with a manual transmission.

Of course cars like the Porsche 911, Ford Mustang and a couple of Mercedes-Benz AMG cars make the cut, but there were also a handful of choices that caught us off guard. Jonny Lieberman of Motor Trend chose the Subaru BRZ, Autoblog weekend editor Alex Nunez would love commuting in a brown Tesla Model S Performance, and Jake Fisher of Consumer Reports picked the Hyundai Veloster... non-turbo!"

Here's the full list of what these 13 auto writers would take home if given a sub-$100,000 car:
Mercedes-Benz E63 Wagon
Audi A7
Mini John Cooper Works Convertible
Porsche 911 Carrera S
Hyundai Veloster
Porsche Cayenne S Hybrid
Mercedes-Benz CLS63 AMG
Jaguar XF Supercharged
Lotus Evora
Subaru BRZ
Tesla Model S Performance
Ford Mustang Boss 302
Land Rover Range Rover Evoque
You dont buy a BMW for value.
__________________
F30 335 Estoril Blue Msport with performance exhasut and black grilles
Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 09-30-2012, 09:35 AM
captainaudio's Avatar
captainaudio captainaudio is offline
Worlds Foremost Authority
Location: Upper East Side Manhattan - Boca Raton Florida
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,908
Mein Auto: 335i E93 - 750Lix
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
You dont buy a BMW for value.
The poll had nothing to do with value.

CA
__________________

Drivers Club at Lime Rock
The Glen Club
International Motor Racing Research Center
BMWCCA
Cayman Club Nor'Easters
Madison Ave. Sports Car Driving and Chowder Society (Only a Vice President)
Sports Car Club of America
Polish Racing Drivers of America (PRDA)
American Mural Project
Simeone Foundation Automotive Museum
Mount Washington Observatory
Society of Automotive Historians
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 09-30-2012, 09:44 AM
justinnum1's Avatar
justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: South Florida
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,734
Mein Auto: F30 328i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
The poll had nothing to do with value.

CA
your right
__________________
F30 335 Estoril Blue Msport with performance exhasut and black grilles
Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 09-30-2012, 09:46 AM
captainaudio's Avatar
captainaudio captainaudio is offline
Worlds Foremost Authority
Location: Upper East Side Manhattan - Boca Raton Florida
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,908
Mein Auto: 335i E93 - 750Lix
Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Nothing the ATS does will move the BMW 3 Series needle.

Enthusiast Buyers: At most 10% of the 3 Series population, very few will switch because the ATS doesn't do anything significantly better than a 335i Sport model and the Cadillac brand embarrasses.

Luxury Buyers: At least 90% of the 3 Series population, no one will switch because of the chasms in quality perception, age perception, sport perception, and brand perception.

The only brand that will be impacted by the ATS is Cadillac. They've just launched a smaller, cheaper car for the potential XTS or CTS customer. They'll get some Chevrolet and Buick owners too, the ATS being only $3,000 more than the top of their offerings.

GM knows this, by the way. You market a sporty Cadillac directly at BMW to make Cadillac, Buick, and Chevrolet buyers excited. So you don't lose more GM customers to the import makers. This is a defensive move, not an offensive one. If you took a few marketing classes, you'd understand this.

BJ
If it was a defensive move by GM (and at this point in time any marketing move by GM is an offensive move) one could argue that BMW making the new 3 Series a less driver focused and more luxury oriented car (if that what they did - I have never driven an F30) could be viewed as a defensive move as well to avoid loosing sales to brands like Lexus.

FWIW I was at the BMW sponsored Grand Am races at Lime Rock thid weekend and BMW had a huge presence and were definitely pushing the performance aspects of their cars.

CA
__________________

Drivers Club at Lime Rock
The Glen Club
International Motor Racing Research Center
BMWCCA
Cayman Club Nor'Easters
Madison Ave. Sports Car Driving and Chowder Society (Only a Vice President)
Sports Car Club of America
Polish Racing Drivers of America (PRDA)
American Mural Project
Simeone Foundation Automotive Museum
Mount Washington Observatory
Society of Automotive Historians
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms