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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 02-18-2015, 03:53 PM
bem-ster bem-ster is offline
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Mein Auto: 2001 525i E39 M54 Engine
Refuses to start NO ENGINE LIGHT!!!

Here we go again. The last time it was a fuel pump and filter NO ENGINE LIGHT. This time it's really different. What's new?
2001 525i E39. Symptoms: while stopped at a red light I could feel the car kind of hic-up, didn't think anything of it. When the light changed I began to accelerate only to NOT. It was as if my gas peddle had become disengaged. Wow! I naturally tried to give it more gas but to no avail, finally it just kicked in and I was up to cruising speed, yet NO ENGINE LIGHT! Stopped at the next light, It happened again, upon acceleration, and like the last time I was able to get up to cruising speed. Got home, turned off the car let it sit for about 20 minutes. Went out to start it up. Started fine, not a smooth ideal, but when I put it in gear and began to accelerate, it responded like I had a disconnected accelerator peddle finally stalling. Popped the hood did the typical, check the oil, check MAP and all the other sensor connections, NOTHING seemed out of order. Got back in the car, attempted to start it, ran very rough for a few seconds, would not accelerate finally stalled. The more I tried to start it, the worse it got. It coughs but will not start at all now.

The last time something like this happened it was easy to diagnose because I had an ENGINE LIGHT and I was able to scan it with my nifty little cheapo scan tool and replace senors, such as Exhaust and Intake Cam Sensors, even replaced the MAP sensor, but this time NO ENGINE LIGHT. I'm getting No Codes. The last known codes were PO171, 174 but those are not recent codes. Can anybody lead me in a direction here?

History: In the passed 40,000 miles I have replace all of the CCV System and vacuum hoses and connections, including Oil Stand Gasket, leaking Valve Cover Gasket, plugs, two coils but all because of the engine light and the code reader. I have plenty of pressure at the Fuel Rail so it's not the pump. It acts like it's out of time, it will turn over and act like it's going to start but NADA?

The only thing that hasn't been done is the VANOS. Is there a simple test for the vanos, such as unplugging or is that to radical? I've searched the forums and can't find anything related to a NON ENGINE LIGHT STALL condition such as mine. Please advise, stuck in my condo here in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. I DO NOT want to submit to the Stealer!
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  #2  
Old 02-18-2015, 04:11 PM
edjack edjack is offline
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There may still be a pending code stored, even though the CEL is off. Most scan tools report both codes separately.
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  #3  
Old 02-18-2015, 10:49 PM
fventura03 fventura03 is offline
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mine is doing the same, interested in checking what people recommend - here's my codes

Error Codes
P0301
Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected



P0173
Fuel Trim



P0170
Fuel Trim



===================
Pending Codes
P1250




P0300
Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
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  #4  
Old 02-19-2015, 05:52 AM
bem-ster bem-ster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edjack View Post
There may still be a pending code stored, even though the CEL is off. Most scan tools report both codes separately.
Yes edjack, I have two stored codes from the passed PO171,PO174. I have had these codes before when ever I get an Engine Light. However, even when I got those codes the car still ran. This time I am NOT getting an engine light at all. If I can't get it running, I can't drive it to someone who can read any CODES. I have to get this car running or call for a tow to the Stealer. I do not know of a good Indy in the area, and even they get it wrong. There just isn't anybody to trust now a days because everybody charges ridiculous fees anyway because the economy sucks, and I have no solutions for that and you can't trust Congress to get it right. Besides sin't THAT one of the reason for this forum? I'm a DIY kinda guy just like the rest of us.
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  #5  
Old 02-19-2015, 06:31 AM
AH673000 AH673000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bem-ster View Post
Yes edjack, I have two stored codes from the passed PO171,PO174. I have had these codes before when ever I get an Engine Light. However, even when I got those codes the car still ran. This time I am NOT getting an engine light at all. If I can't get it running, I can't drive it to someone who can read any CODES. I have to get this car running or call for a tow to the Stealer. I do not know of a good Indy in the area, and even they get it wrong. There just isn't anybody to trust now a days because everybody charges ridiculous fees anyway because the economy sucks, and I have no solutions for that and you can't trust Congress to get it right. Besides sin't THAT one of the reason for this forum? I'm a DIY kinda guy just like the rest of us.

One possible issue may be that it is not getting enough air....or the device measuring airflow is not working properly.

If the computer does not get a signal that there is enough air to maintain a air/ fuel radio , the gas pedal will do nothing. Not enough air....you get no more fuel.
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  #6  
Old 02-19-2015, 07:32 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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When it stalled, did you have less than 1/4 fuel in the tank?
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  #7  
Old 02-19-2015, 08:11 AM
bem-ster bem-ster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
When it stalled, did you have less than 1/4 fuel in the tank?
Little less than a half tank of gas. I replaced the fuel pump about 6 months ago. That's when my engine light went away. I do not have an Engine Light currently, that's what makes this seem so mysterious. However, I had a P0171-174 in the passed, but that was with an Engine Light. could this be Vanos related? Can I unplug the Vanos and try to start the car? If it starts then Rebuild the Vanos? I have 161k miles and the vanos have never been rebuilt. I do have oil leakage telling me I should replace the Valve Gasket, but that wouldn't cause the car to respond like is NOW. Yes.No?
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Old 02-19-2015, 09:05 AM
edjack edjack is offline
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A faulty crankshaft position sensor will inhibit starting, but it should set a code.
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  #9  
Old 02-19-2015, 09:30 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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? Contaminated fuel (water in gasoline)...

- Also open the Ebox (pass side cowl), use Allen keys to open it.
Check ALL fuses in there, incl. the fuses inside the black cage.
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  #10  
Old 02-19-2015, 10:24 AM
bem-ster bem-ster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edjack View Post
A faulty crankshaft position sensor will inhibit starting, but it should set a code.
I ruled out the Crankshaft Position Sensor simply because if that had been the cause i surely would have thrown a code.

Currently everything is pointing to the Fuel Pump. I replaced the pump back in July. I called the manufacturer because it came with a Lifetime Warranty. The Rep asked what my symptoms were and if there was an engine light. Based on the symptoms and the fact there IS NO PRESSURE at the fuel rail this morning, the Pump became the suspect. The Manufacturer is sending me a new pump based on the description and the fact No Engine Light and no fuel at the rail. The pump is suppose to be here no later than Saturday. Since then I did check all fuses to the pump, they were fine. Pulled the back seat opened up the pump cover and took my stethoscope and my wife turned the key to the 2nd position, NOTHING no sound at all. Checked the fuel rail again NO FUEL PRESENT. That's it until Saturday. I hope this is it, as far as changing out the fuel pump, I've done that job. I'm figuring about an hour change out and I should be up and running. If not!!!! Dumb de dumb dumb.
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:37 AM
bem-ster bem-ster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
? Contaminated fuel (water in gasoline)...

- Also open the Ebox (pass side cowl), use Allen keys to open it.
Check ALL fuses in there, incl. the fuses inside the black cage.
I really appreciate your posts. We've traced everything to the Fuel Pump. There is no fuel pressure at the rail. There is no sound at the pump when I turn on the ignition to #2 position. I have checked the fuses to the pump and they are fine. I am going to check the Ebox to make sure. But being the Manufacture of the pump, I put in last July, has a Lifetime Warranty they have already decided to send me a new pump based on the symptoms. Should be here Saturday. Other than that, I suspect MAF more than anything other than Crank Shaft Sensor, fortunately I do not have an Engine Light so who knows what's next. At least the Manufacture of the pump is cooperating, that's a plus.
Let me ask you about (water in the fuel). I notice, anytime I switch fuel (Shell-Sunoco- Cheveron) my car stumbles, just after a fill up. This seems to always happen, but the car recovers within a few seconds and everything is fine until the next fill up, then it will do it again. Weird!!! And it only does it one time per fill up. I never use any fuel under 91 octain and most of the time if the price is reasonable (what ever that means) I use 93. I don't know if that has anything to do with it but it seems to me with NO CODES that the problem has to be pump related. I also replaced the fuel filter last July with original. Gone are the days of of the dollar two ninety eight fuel filter. I'll keep everybody posted. Again thank you for responding.
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  #12  
Old 02-19-2015, 10:55 AM
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VA525FREAK VA525FREAK is offline
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Those were the 3 codes I got as well. My car was right at 1/4 tank. I replaced CPS and put 2 gallons of gas in my car and it's fixed. Since you are already above 1/4 then why not try the CPS even though you have no code for it. I get the logic, "why would my CPS be bad and no code."
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Old 02-19-2015, 12:34 PM
bem-ster bem-ster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VA525FREAK View Post
Those were the 3 codes I got as well. My car was right at 1/4 tank. I replaced CPS and put 2 gallons of gas in my car and it's fixed. Since you are already above 1/4 then why not try the CPS even though you have no code for it. I get the logic, "why would my CPS be bad and no code."
I think I've traced the problem to the New Fuel Pump I put in last summer. The symptoms all point to the PUMP even thou it's only 6 months old. The Manufacturer of the pump is sending me a new pump to replace the one I put in last summer because I do not have an engine light and the pump is not responding (no sound after turning on the ignition) plus no pressure at the fuel rail.

I've experienced failing CPS before and have replaced both (Intake/Exhaust) with in the last few years, I also got a code telling me that was the problem based on an engine light so I'm thinking CPS might not be my problem.

I'll install the replacement pump this weekend. If that fixes it then great. If Not... Dumb de dumb dumb. Thanks for responding
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Old 02-19-2015, 12:44 PM
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VA525FREAK VA525FREAK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bem-ster View Post
I think I've traced the problem to the New Fuel Pump I put in last summer. The symptoms all point to the PUMP even thou it's only 6 months old. The Manufacturer of the pump is sending me a new pump to replace the one I put in last summer because I do not have an engine light and the pump is not responding (no sound after turning on the ignition) plus no pressure at the fuel rail.

I've experienced failing CPS before and have replaced both (Intake/Exhaust) with in the last few years, I also got a code telling me that was the problem based on an engine light so I'm thinking CPS might not be my problem.

I'll install the replacement pump this weekend. If that fixes it then great. If Not... Dumb de dumb dumb. Thanks for responding
Ahh yes the no sound, then I agree with your assessment. I replaced the crankshaft position sensor, then learned about the intake/exhaust cam sensors too.

Since you mentioned intake and exhaust CAM sensors, I have question for you regarding the exhaust sensor:

1. Does it sit on the front side of the engine, below vanos and where resevoir is for coolant system?

2. Do you just squeeze the 2 ends of the wiring clamp to get it loose and did you have to take shroud and resevoir out to get to it?

I have not changed exhaust side, bentley manual does not show ehere it is located but it looks like I have identified it correctly based on the 5MM allen head. But I cannot get the stupid harness off and it actually looks like one side of the clip is broken. Any insight into that?
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Old 02-19-2015, 12:52 PM
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VA525FREAK VA525FREAK is offline
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Fuel pump relay..... Maybe? I hear that this relay is behind the glovebox. Not sure if that means the glovebox has to come out. I am a little suprised nobody has pointed to that yet being its supposedly simple to jump and check your pump. I did not have to mess with my relay because I could hear my pump but I did a lot of research on my issue and found where there was many recommendations of bypassing relay by jumping pins to test the pump. Might want to consider that prior to pulling pump.
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Old 02-19-2015, 02:33 PM
bem-ster bem-ster is offline
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Okay... so I assume you have changed the Intake Cam Sensor up by the Oil Cap. Yes/No

Your question:1. Does it sit on the front side of the engine, below vanos and where resevoir is for coolant system? YES but do not confuse it with the Vanos Solenoid connector. The exhaust sensor is on the face of the engine by the reservoir for the coolant system. You do not have to remove the Fan and Radiator Shroud but you will need a short 90 degree Allen Wrench. However I usually remove the shroud because I can pull it pretty easy with the fan. But to each there own.

Question 2. Do you just squeeze the 2 ends of the wiring clamp to get it loose and did you have to take shroud and resevoir out to get to it? YES squeeze the spring clip together and the harness will release. Simple. Remove the two allen screws to get the Sensor out. Its pretty easy, however don't make the mistake i did and get After Market. Make sure you get at least OEM or Bmw. you can tell an orginal BMW because it has a BMW emblem imbedded in it. All BMW original parts have BMW imbeds. None of the After Market or OEMs have BMW imbeds. I always go with BMW imbedded sensors I learned my lesson on the side of the road waiting for the tow truck.

Let me ask you. Did you change your Crank Shaft Sensor? I believe it's located down under where the Throttle Body is located on the Block. What did you have to go through to get to it. If I understand it correctly it requires two Allen Screws to remove and the wire disconnects some place else. Yes/No?
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Old 02-19-2015, 03:18 PM
HTK12 HTK12 is offline
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Have you checked you got 12v at the fuel pump connector when key is turned to posII? Fuel pump wiring is known to break.
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Old 02-19-2015, 03:22 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Fuel Pump is critical part.
I'd stick to Pierburg brand.
Don't allow fuel to go below 1/4 tank.
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Old 02-19-2015, 07:58 PM
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VA525FREAK VA525FREAK is offline
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Refuses to start NO ENGINE LIGHT!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bem-ster View Post
Okay... so I assume you have changed the Intake Cam Sensor up by the Oil Cap. Yes/No

Your question:1. Does it sit on the front side of the engine, below vanos and where resevoir is for coolant system? YES but do not confuse it with the Vanos Solenoid connector. The exhaust sensor is on the face of the engine by the reservoir for the coolant system. You do not have to remove the Fan and Radiator Shroud but you will need a short 90 degree Allen Wrench. However I usually remove the shroud because I can pull it pretty easy with the fan. But to each there own.

Question 2. Do you just squeeze the 2 ends of the wiring clamp to get it loose and did you have to take shroud and resevoir out to get to it? YES squeeze the spring clip together and the harness will release. Simple. Remove the two allen screws to get the Sensor out. Its pretty easy, however don't make the mistake i did and get After Market. Make sure you get at least OEM or Bmw. you can tell an orginal BMW because it has a BMW emblem imbedded in it. All BMW original parts have BMW imbeds. None of the After Market or OEMs have BMW imbeds. I always go with BMW imbedded sensors I learned my lesson on the side of the road waiting for the tow truck.

Let me ask you. Did you change your Crank Shaft Sensor? I believe it's located down under where the Throttle Body is located on the Block. What did you have to go through to get to it. If I understand it correctly it requires two Allen Screws to remove and the wire disconnects some place else. Yes/No?
Yes I changed crankshaft sensor from top of engine. I took out airbox and both intake boots to get to it. Not that hard of a job but I would get a 5M long Allen key so you have leverage to break torque. You have described where my exhaust cam sensor is. To be honest I'm not sure if I have oem or not. I will call the shop tomorrow, which is bap geon/import auto parts. The clip to the exhaust can is def broken and I can't get it off with the shroud on so I'll be disconnecting. Crankshaft sensor is only 1 Allen bolt. It's under the starter. The wire disconnects right at the sensor

To my understanding the intake sensor is below vanos solenoid

Last edited by VA525FREAK; 02-19-2015 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 02-19-2015, 09:09 PM
bem-ster bem-ster is offline
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yes the intake sensor is below the Vanos Solenoid, right next to the Oil Filter Cap. It's an easy job, be careful when removing the Vent tube going down to the CVV. It can be brittle and will crack easily. The intake is much easier than the exhaust. Taking out the fan and fan shroud is not that difficult. There are youtube videos showing what to be careful with when removing the fan and shroud. Remember the Fan and Shroud come off together. Remember to loosen the fan (left hand thread) before you begin the Shroud. Thanks with the tips on the Crankshaft Sensor.
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Old 02-20-2015, 04:30 AM
pshovest pshovest is online now
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I didn't have to remove the fan or shroud to change the exhaust cam PS on my '01 530. Use a 5mm(?) short arm allen wrench to reach the screw.
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Old 02-20-2015, 05:11 AM
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VA525FREAK VA525FREAK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pshovest View Post
I didn't have to remove the fan or shroud to change the exhaust cam PS on my '01 530. Use a 5mm(?) short arm allen wrench to reach the screw.
Yea I wouldn't remove the shroud if I could get the damn harness to come off.

I have tried using my hands in several different positions but there is no leverage to squeeze the side clips to release the plug.
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Old 02-20-2015, 05:37 AM
poolman poolman is offline
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There were 2 to 3 questions too you asking, did you check to see if you were getting power at the fuel pump.and you never answered them..now lets assskkk thiiiis agiiin Sloooowly..Did you get an indication of electrical power , going into the fuel pump?
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Old 02-20-2015, 07:25 AM
bem-ster bem-ster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poolman View Post
There were 2 to 3 questions too you asking, did you check to see if you were getting power at the fuel pump.and you never answered them..now lets assskkk thiiiis agiiin Sloooowly..Did you get an indication of electrical power , going into the fuel pump?
None of my fuses were blown. Yes there was power at the pump! That was why we couldn't hear the pump engage.

Let me ask you there are 4 wires that are attached to the locking plug. Brown (14 gauge) White with Blue Strip (14 gauge) Brown with White rings (16 gauge) and Black with White rings (16 gauge) when I connect my DC meter to the two bigger wires and turned on the ignition to #2 position, I got 12v for about 5-10 seconds. Which is about how much the pump works before actually starting the car. I ran that test again and came up with the same results.

There is NO Continuity between any of the 4 pins on the pump housing side of the connection (unplugged). I hope this answers your question. The Manufacturer is drop shipping me a new pump based on the warranty and based on the diagnoses. If it's not the pump and the cam shaft position sensors have been replace in the passed 2 years, I'm think Crankshaft Sensor would be my last effort before slipping off into darkness, the CKS has been on the car for 161k miles, the current mileage. Remember I am not getting an engine light. I have no codes indicating any sensor issues other than old stored codes PO171-174. but those were resolved the last time I had vacuum leaks. I hope it's the Pump but if you are thinking something else please advise, isn't that what we are here for?
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Old 02-20-2015, 08:21 AM
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VA525FREAK VA525FREAK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bem-ster View Post
None of my fuses were blown. Yes there was power at the pump! That was why we couldn't hear the pump engage.

Let me ask you there are 4 wires that are attached to the locking plug. Brown (14 gauge) White with Blue Strip (14 gauge) Brown with White rings (16 gauge) and Black with White rings (16 gauge) when I connect my DC meter to the two bigger wires and turned on the ignition to #2 position, I got 12v for about 5-10 seconds. Which is about how much the pump works before actually starting the car. I ran that test again and came up with the same results.

There is NO Continuity between any of the 4 pins on the pump housing side of the connection (unplugged). I hope this answers your question. The Manufacturer is drop shipping me a new pump based on the warranty and based on the diagnoses. If it's not the pump and the cam shaft position sensors have been replace in the passed 2 years, I'm think Crankshaft Sensor would be my last effort before slipping off into darkness, the CKS has been on the car for 161k miles, the current mileage. Remember I am not getting an engine light. I have no codes indicating any sensor issues other than old stored codes PO171-174. but those were resolved the last time I had vacuum leaks. I hope it's the Pump but if you are thinking something else please advise, isn't that what we are here for?
I think its your pump, if that doesnt work I can ship you a sensor that I know is good.
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