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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #226  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:23 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
CAFE is about EPA ratings, not consumer actual experience numbers obviously.

Fact is EPA ratings between the N55 and N20 are strikingly close. There is a larger disparity between actual drivers results. But due to EPA rating, I doubt very much BMW would shuffle output on cars with ratings so similar.
That is why I said my speculation could be wrong. Does CAFE contain emission limits, not just mpg? The N20 has lower emission than N55. I recall the SULEV label only applies to 328.

Similarly in Europe, they try to avoid anything larger than 2.0L.

Last edited by dtc100; 10-05-2012 at 12:25 PM.
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  #227  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:27 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Did you ask Jon? Pretty much every sponsor at Bimmerfest had said they had shortage of 335s, I have talked to two of my local dealers, the same thing.

As for why, I never made a claim, just a speculation. I even said it could be all wrong. But don't dismiss the facts just because you did not care to learn about them.

You on the other hand made a claim that BMW's 328/335 production allocations are entirely based on consumer demands. You did not even offer any factual support, just a statement.
I'm not going to ask Jon. It's not that important that I want to bother him with this. And regarding consumer demand, have you ever had an economics class? It's how the market works.
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  #228  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:52 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
I'm not going to ask Jon. It's not that important that I want to bother him with this. And regarding consumer demand, have you ever had an economics class? It's how the market works.
Of course I know what consumer demand is, the question is whether you know what it is before you try to use such term.

The dealers don't have enough 335s to sell, yet they have too many 328s on the lot. You insist that BMW allocates 335/328 based on demand. And yet it has been going on ever since the F30 has been released. The reality does not agree with your claim.
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  #229  
Old 10-05-2012, 01:12 PM
ricosan ricosan is offline
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I think that they made a big mistake by dropping the 4.4L

ricosan
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  #230  
Old 10-05-2012, 01:13 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Of course I know what consumer demand is, the question is whether you know what it is before you try to use such term.

The dealers don't have enough 335s to sell, yet they have too many 328s on the lot. You insist that BMW allocates 335/328 based on demand. And yet it has been going on ever since the F30 has been released. The reality does not agree with your claim.
But you are claiming that BMW is doing this to boost CAFE numbers and that makes no sense in this context. Maybe you could address why they don't limit other cars that get worse fuel economy.

I don't know why 335's are hard to get at some dealers but it could be any number of reasons any of which are as valid as yours.
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  #231  
Old 10-05-2012, 01:51 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
But you are claiming that BMW is doing this to boost CAFE numbers and that makes no sense in this context. Maybe you could address why they don't limit other cars that get worse fuel economy.
The other models don't sell enough units to have much impact maybe.

Quote:
I don't know why 335's are hard to get at some dealers but it could be any number of reasons any of which are as valid as yours.
Because they don't have enough to go around, what other reasons?
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  #232  
Old 10-05-2012, 01:54 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
The other models don't sell enough units to have much impact maybe.



Because they don't have enough to go around, what other reasons?
Certainly the 3 series has the most impact but BMW sells a lot of 5 series. Definitely enough to impact CAFE if the 535 sells a lot compared to the 528. I don't know if this is the case and I can't find any sales breakdowns by engine online.

I agree that there's not enough to go around but whether or not this is intentional is the question.

I've had enough of this thread so see you in another.
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  #233  
Old 10-05-2012, 05:01 PM
pony_trekker pony_trekker is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
You will not want a CC or any other VW out of warranty.
Fixed that for you.
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  #234  
Old 10-05-2012, 05:19 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Fixed that for you.
True.

Closest to an exception are tdi's. I have friends that have put on tons of miles with no problems. Stellar resale too.
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  #235  
Old 10-05-2012, 06:46 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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Is the Bimmerfester community is using bad English? Yes, this has been true for many years, but it's been getting worse by the day. BTW, I am not being rude to Speakers of Other Languages. I have been teaching them for many years, and they work very hard to get the grammar right. It's usually the Native English Speakers who are too lazy and sloppy to follow the rules and respect their readers.
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  #236  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:19 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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Now that my rant is done, I read the whole thread (I can't believe i read the whole thread.) Most entertaining thread in years. Thanks, BJ; you certainly have a way of bringing out the zealots. Carry on, group.
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  #237  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:21 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by ProRail View Post
Is the Bimmerfester community is using bad English? Yes, this has been true for many years, but it's been getting worse by the day. BTW, I am not being rude to Speakers of Other Languages. I have been teaching them for many years, and they work very hard to get the grammar right. It's usually the Native English Speakers who are too lazy and sloppy to follow the rules and respect their readers.
For all the disrespect shown among the posters here, you pick on a small error made in the title, likely caused by fat fingers on a 3" screen?
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  #238  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:01 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProRail View Post
Now that my rant is done, I read the whole thread (I can't believe i read the whole thread.) Most entertaining thread in years. Thanks, BJ; you certainly have a way of bringing out the zealots. Carry on, group.


What's up? Long time no speak. Glad you're doing well while BMW crumbles to the ground, at the mercy of Mercedes Benz and their badass C Class, going to set sports enthusiasm on it's collective ear, going to drive the 3 Series to the wasteland of other automotive failures like the Corvair and the Edsel. It's a fight to the death, I tell you. The death.

BJ
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Last edited by boltjaM3s; 10-05-2012 at 08:02 PM.
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  #239  
Old 10-07-2012, 02:06 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Going back 26 years, BMW has used the Value Package once. In the 2011 E90.
Are you sure? I recall them doing the same thing on the last year of the E46..
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  #240  
Old 10-07-2012, 02:11 PM
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mr_clueless mr_clueless is offline
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Is the Bimmerfester community is using bad English?
Yes.
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  #241  
Old 10-07-2012, 02:16 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Also, if the torque steer of the FWD CC with the 2.0T is anything like the A4 2.0T I test drove, there's no way in hell I would get one.
Are you talking about wheel hop when accelerating on a tight curve or are you talking about torque steer as experience on straight line acceleration? If the latter, you shouldn't experience any on the A4 with its longitudinally mounted engine and equal driving shafts. I know the CC has a transversely mounted engine, but I thing VW does quite a bit to nearly eliminate true torque steer (on straight lines).

The wheel hopping on curves is almost unavoidable on FWD cars, unless they use some fancy slip differentials.
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  #242  
Old 10-07-2012, 02:17 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Talk to me first via PM before you go swooning too much over the CC.

If reliability had not been so bad, I would still have mine.
The VW B^ problems suffered some very specific issues. For a little more, I'd rather get into a nice A4, which has a much better engine and nicer interior.
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  #243  
Old 10-07-2012, 02:21 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
F30 -both models
Lexus IS250 - its motor and tranny are well mated and its V6 is better than Merc's or Audi's fours. I also prefer its front cabin.
C250
A4, fwd w/cvt - gawd awful..
A couple of notes here. The 328i 4-cyl makes more power simply because of more boost. It is yet to be seen how reliable it will be. Audi already fields 2.0T with 265Hp on the TT. They must have some reason for not fielding them on mainstream cars like the A4.

As to the CVT, no one considering a 328i would contemplate getting a CVT/FWD, since for just a little more you can get the quattro.

Btwy, AFAIK, the CVT will be no more on the next model. For economy oriented folks, nothing would beat a FWD/manual combo.
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  #244  
Old 10-07-2012, 02:25 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The typical 3 Series buyer is a 50 year old woman ...
Not in So. Cal.
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  #245  
Old 10-07-2012, 02:28 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
I've considered the GTI as well. I eliminated the 2011 CC due to lack of a center rear seat as we had an infant and wanted the car seat in the center. I don't have that requirement anymore but the 2013 model has a full rear seat anyway.
The new CC is a little weird, but still on my shopping list. However, for just an extra $2-3K, you can get an A4 with a much better engine, quattro and better mpgs (despite the quattro), leather, sunrrof, etc. You give up a little rear seat legroom (in exchange for headroom?). Unless they sell at very deep discounts, I am starting to have serious doubts about it.
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  #246  
Old 10-07-2012, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post

As to the CVT, no one considering a 328i would contemplate getting a CVT/FWD, since for just a little more you can get the quattro.
Simply incorrect. Around here lots of drivers are terrified by RWD, but are willing to buy FWD Audis and forgo Quattro. I see non-Quattro 2.0T A4s and A6s frequently.
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  #247  
Old 10-07-2012, 03:22 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
The new CC is a little weird, but still on my shopping list. However, for just an extra $2-3K, you can get an A4 with a much better engine, quattro and better mpgs (despite the quattro), leather, sunrrof, etc. You give up a little rear seat legroom (in exchange for headroom?). Unless they sell at very deep discounts, I am starting to have serious doubts about it.
Where are you seeing an A4 quattro getting better mpgs than the 2.0 CC.

In my case there was a big price difference between the two. CC was also better looking and rare at the time. Now not so much.
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  #248  
Old 10-07-2012, 03:35 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Simply incorrect. Around here lots of drivers are terrified by RWD, but are willing to buy FWD Audis and forgo Quattro. I see non-Quattro 2.0T A4s and A6s frequently.
Drivers terrified by RWD are not considering RWD BMWs. So how am I incorrect?
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  #249  
Old 10-07-2012, 03:42 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
Drivers terrified by RWD are not considering RWD BMWs. So how am I incorrect?
Oops. You are not. I had the reverse scenario in my mind when I read that sentence. Sorry about that.
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  #250  
Old 10-07-2012, 03:46 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Where are you seeing an A4 quattro getting better mpgs than the 2.0 CC.
2013 manual A4 quattro: 22/26/32 mpg. (city/combined/highway)
2013 FWD manual CC: 21/25/32 mpg.

From http://www.fueleconomy.gov

But I now see the CC also got a 1mpg highway mpg bump. I acknowledge the difference is minute. But as a side note, once you consider that the A4 quattro has AWD and is lugging around an extra ~300lbs, you realize the difference between the two versions of the 2.0T.

I also realize that most people will probably look at auto transmissions, in which case the combined mpg advantage goes back to the CC by 1mpg if you stick with quattro for the A4.
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