Is the new 3 series is losing US market share?

The only downside I see is the lack of a remote starter as w/ all BMW's and this is only because I live in New England. Other than that, I can live w/ the car just fine.

Originally Posted by windsor027

Maybe you can't but most of us can. Hell especially from the front the lights how they integrate with the grill is a dead giveaway.

As a 535xi owner, I must say its very hard to tell the difference between the F30 and the F10 aside from seeing in the front as you said. Remember when Audi first came out with this the one sausage, different length concept, the BMW fanboys were having a field day with it. Now that the BMW and Lexus is doing the same thing, its has become more acceptable.

Originally Posted by trinipirate

The only downside I see is the lack of a remote starter as w/ all BMW's and this is only because I live in New England.

Maybe BMW knows it's bad for the engine to warm it up at idle in the winter. I never do that.

Originally Posted by The X Men

As a 535xi owner, I must say its very hard to tell the difference between the F30 and the F10 aside from seeing in the front as you said. Remember when Audi first came out with this the one sausage, different length concept, the BMW fanboys were having a field day with it. Now that the BMW and Lexus is doing the same thing, its has become more acceptable.

Never had a problem with what Audi was doing either. I agree from the back they are similar but why would an F30 owner have an issue with this. Hell if you car looks like a 5 series that ok also since the 5 is more expensive/higher status as BJ would say. I would have been bad if the F30 looked like the 1-series...

Originally Posted by Chris90

Maybe BMW knows it's bad for the engine to warm it up at idle in the winter. I never do that.

not buying that

Originally Posted by trinipirate

not buying that

Really? Both my 2000 A4 with a 1.8T and 2004 A4 with the same engine had a prominent note in the manual that it was bad for the engine to let it idle to warm up in sub-freezing temperatures. The recommendation was simply to start it up and drive off, keeping RPMs down until the engine warmed up.

I don't see why that logic would not apply to this 2.0T engine... or, for that matter, any engine.

My understanding is that letting a cold engine idle to temperature is bad due to the oil not circulating very well without the motor operating at something other than idle, resulting in excessive engine wear over time. Basically you have cold oil sitting in the bottom of the engine and at idle it is not doing much else.

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

Really? Both my 2000 A4 with a 1.8T and 2004 A4 with the same engine had a prominent note in the manual that it was bad for the engine to let it idle to warm up in sub-freezing temperatures. The recommendation was simply to start it up and drive off, keeping RPMs down until the engine warmed up.

I don't see why that logic would not apply to this 2.0T engine... or, for that matter, any engine.

My understanding is that letting a cold engine idle to temperature is bad due to the oil not circulating very well without the motor operating at something other than idle, resulting in excessive engine wear over time. Basically you have cold oil sitting in the bottom of the engine and at idle it is not doing much else.

there are problems, then there are solutions. people who are used to remote starters don't want to hear about why its not good, they just want it. i have one on one of our vehicles and that's what i'm basing my request on. the fact that it may not be good for their engine doesn't stop people from wanting it. there's nothing wrong with having a wish list or wanting more from a car/company you like and respect. i honestly think they really don't care about this option anytime soon, regardless if the engine was capable or not.

Originally Posted by windsor027

Maybe you can't but most of us can. Hell especially from the front the lights how they integrate with the grill is a dead giveaway.



That is 800 dollars BMW owners don't have to pay...just saying.

You (and me) can probably tell the sport line apart from the luxury line. But if your point is, less F30 market share is good because people in general will see less of them on the road, then maybe they will not.

Originally Posted by dtc100

You (and me) can probably tell the sport line apart from the luxury line. But if your point is, less F30 market share is good because people in general will see less of them on the road, then maybe they will not.

I don't have a point. I think the way the market is right now with so many manufactures making good cars BMW is bound to lose some share of the market. Makes no difference to me I still think its the best sport sedan in the 40K to 50K price range.

Originally Posted by windsor027

I don't have a point. I think the way the market is right now with so many manufactures making good cars BMW is bound to lose some share of the market. Makes no difference to me I still think its the best sport sedan in the 40K to 50K price range.

Anything is better than a 2011 328i, a car conceived in 2003, launched in 2005, and found everywhere. I could open a box of Corn Flakes, find a 2011 328i in there.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Anything is better than a 2011 328i, a car conceived in 2003, launched in 2005, and found everywhere. I could open a box of Corn Flakes, find a 2011 328i in there.

BJ

I was checking in cars.com and saw several 328i 2007 2008 for under 18K with low miles. You are correct they are everywhere out there.

Originally Posted by windsor027

Never had a problem with what Audi was doing either. I agree from the back they are similar but why would an F30 owner have an issue with this. Hell if you car looks like a 5 series that ok also since the 5 is more expensive/higher status as BJ would say. I would have been bad if the F30 looked like the 1-series...

It's not that much more, is it? In any event I brought my 2008 550 in for service, was given an F30 loaner and then couldn't get rid of the 50 fast enough. If the metric is fun there's no comparison.

Originally Posted by Lorenzzo

It's not that much more, is it? In any event I brought my 2008 550 in for service, was given an F30 loaner and then couldn't get rid of the 50 fast enough. If the metric is fun there's no comparison.

Awesome to know. I can't wait to have my best friend drive the F30. He has a 2011 535i M sport. I think he will be pissed....lol

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Anything is better than a 2011 328i, a car conceived in 2003, launched in 2005, and found everywhere. I could open a box of Corn Flakes, find a 2011 328i in there.

BJ

Although it is true the E90 is everywhere, they stand on their own, not easily mistaken for another model. I think the current C Class benefits from the same factor. You see a lot of them, but they are unmistakably C Class, you can't say you thought it was an E Class.

Originally Posted by windsor027

Awesome to know. I can't wait to have my best friend drive the F30. He has a 2011 535i M sport. I think he will be pissed....lol

The 5-s are nice cars but while we may like to nitpick the F30-s, there's nothing so outstanding near their price point. I could replace the 5 with an Audi, Lexus or Merc and be ok, but I can't replace the F30.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Although it is true the E90 is everywhere, they stand on their own, not easily mistaken for another model. I think the current C Class benefits from the same factor. You see a lot of them, but they are unmistakably C Class, you can't say you thought it was an E Class.

I think you are missing the point here. BJ did not have status because he drove an E90, the E90 had status because BJ drove one. People would see an E90 and say "Look there goes someone with a car like BJ's! Did you get a look at the driver? Was it Donald Trump?, J-Lo?, Matt Damon?, Bill Gates?

Now that he has moved on the E90 has lost its status and the car that formerly made Mr. and Mrs. Camry crazy with jealously has been relegated to the scrap heap of tired former status symbols.

Originally Posted by trinipirate

there are problems, then there are solutions. people who are used to remote starters don't want to hear about why its not good, they just want it. i have one on one of our vehicles and that's what i'm basing my request on. the fact that it may not be good for their engine doesn't stop people from wanting it. there's nothing wrong with having a wish list or wanting more from a car/company you like and respect. i honestly think they really don't care about this option anytime soon, regardless if the engine was capable or not.

I guess the problem is that no one wants remote starters anymore.

Originally Posted by UnderSteer

I think you are missing the point here. BJ did not have status because he drove an E90, the E90 had status because BJ drove one. People would see an E90 and say "Look there goes someone with a car like BJ's! Did you get a look at the driver? Was it Donald Trump?, J-Lo?, Matt Damon?, Bill Gates?

Now that he has moved on the E90 has lost its status and the car that formerly made Mr. and Mrs. Camry crazy with jealously has been relegated to the scrap heap of tired former status symbols.

No, BJ's point was not lost in me, although you summed it up better than BJ himself.

Status is subjective. I was merely trying to find more objective points in these discussions, such as whether the F30 and F10 look more alike or not, than say comparing the E90 with E60, or going even back when the 3 series was very distinctively on its own.

I think the tradition of individuality has gradually given way to the need to conform to the greatest masses.

The Audi pre-paid maintenance does NOT include parts other than oil, oil filter,etc. so as the car gets older and parts wear out like brakes you are stuck with the bill. The Audi MMI System is quite inferior to the iDrive system.

Originally Posted by Lorenzzo

The 5-s are nice cars but while we may like to nitpick the F30-s, there's nothing so outstanding near their price point. I could replace the 5 with an Audi, Lexus or Merc and be ok, but I can't replace the F30.

Not if you want a manual.

Originally Posted by mr_clueless

Not if you want a manual.

True, I may see that as pointless but not everybody.

The world wide numbers came out today for BMW, including the F30 3 series -

"The BMW 3 Series achieved sales of 39,302 vehicles last month (prev. yr. 35,842/ +9.7%)"

More details - http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=650802

The way I read that is that sales in the US might be down for reasons I'm sure have been discussed in the thread already but that overall BMW F30 sales are up.

Tim

I can easily see the F30 selling well in places like China, where status, luxury and comfort are very important attributes. Since China is now the largest market, I see automakers cater to their taste more, and may not pay as much attention to the US market as in the past.

Originally Posted by dtc100

I can easily see the F30 selling well in places like China, where status, luxury and comfort are very important attributes. Since China is now the largest market, I see automakers cater to their taste more, and may not pay as much attention to the US market as in the past.

As someone who frequently travels to and does business in China I agree. I wonder if a cigarette lighter is standard there as our tobacco industry does a great job exporting cigarettes to China.

Originally Posted by Lorenzzo

As someone who frequently travels to and does business in China I agree. I wonder if a cigarette lighter is standard there as our tobacco industry does a great job exporting cigarettes to China.

Even though China is now the world's biggest market for cars, I would think the US is still BMW's biggest market.