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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #101  
Old 10-04-2012, 06:25 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
How many A4s, Cs and Gs did they sell compared to 3 back in 2002 or 2005?

If I am in the market today, there is no way I can justify the F30 328i lease over the G37 lease to the SO, when comparable G37 is easily $150/mo. less. In fact last year, after trying for a few months, I could not convince the SO to accept an X3 over an GLK, because the payment was about $150/mo. higher.

For an extra $150, the car better have something very special more than the badge within this segment.
If I had the choice at this time between paying $150.00 more for an F30 or getting a G37, I'd get a VW CC 2.0T. The G37 was a great car in it's time but is at the end of it's life and sucks gas like a pig not to mention the dated interior.
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  #102  
Old 10-04-2012, 06:31 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I pay $160 a month to the guy who cuts my lawn. No way anyone is putting themselves in a step-down semi-luxury car like an Infiniti for a measly $150.

The proper way to look at this is that a $500 a month lease is the expectation for a luxury car in this segment. Any brand offering something similar for $350 isn't offering a true luxury car. Acura, Infiniti, Cadillac, not in the same league as a BMW, silly to keep bringing them up.

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  #103  
Old 10-04-2012, 06:32 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
If I had the choice at this time between paying $150.00 more for an F30 or getting a G37, I'd get a VW CC 2.0T. The G37 was a great car in it's time but is at the end of it's life and sucks gas like a pig not to mention the dated interior.
For the same payment, I think most people would pick G over CC.
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  #104  
Old 10-04-2012, 06:38 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
For the same payment, I think most people would pick G over CC.
Probably but we are not most people on this site.The G37 was a car I considered when I leased my first E90 in 2007. It wasn't what I wanted in a car then and certainly isn't now. With gas at $4.00/gallon it's hard to justify the poor mileage of the G37 to start. The CC is much more of what I want in a car and it doesn't hurt that it's gorgeous. Way better looking than the 328, A4 or C series. No it's not in the same class but it's a lot of car for the money if you stick with the 2.0. The major drawback is the FWD,
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  #105  
Old 10-04-2012, 06:48 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
How many A4s, Cs and Gs did they sell compared to 3 back in 2002 or 2005?
Thatís a good question, Letís try to look back at the same time period when the 3 series was last redesign as compare to the current redesign, about one year into its redesign, which would be around Sep 2007:

The 3 series' US sales numbers after the first 3 quarters of 2007 was 97039 unit year to date and compare to the Sep 2006's YTD sales figures, the 3 series' gain was +24.7%. Lets compare that to last month's sales number: The current 3 series' US sales numbers after the 1st 3 quarters of 2012 was 68352 unit year to date and compare to the Sep 2011's sales figures, the 3 series' current YTD sales numbers are negative 3.1%compare to the prior year.

Furthermore, letís take a look at the market share between the 3 series vs. the C class, A4 and the Infinite G. In Sep 2007, BMW 3 series sold 97039 unit YTD, A4, 29469 YTD, Infiniti G, 47132 and the C class, 36184. The 3 series had a 46% US market share in Sep 2007. Lets compare that to todayís market share, BMW 3 series sold 68352 unit YTD in Sep 2012, A4, 41235 YTD, Infiniti G, 46034 and the C class, 57740. The current 3 series' US market share is down to 32%.
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  #106  
Old 10-04-2012, 07:05 AM
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I think there are a lot of factors at play:
- competition
- pricing
- gloom and doom talk about the economy
- housing downturn (people who might have stretched for a premium vehicle won't now)

For me I still love my E90 and am awaiting the new 1 or 2 series offering since I want something smaller. If I had to buy today it would probably be an A3.
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  #107  
Old 10-04-2012, 07:45 AM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Thatís a good question, Letís try to look back at the same time period when the 3 series was last redesign as compare to the current redesign, about one year into its redesign, which would be around Sep 2007:

The 3 series' US sales numbers after the first 3 quarters of 2007 was 97039 unit year to date and compare to the Sep 2006's YTD sales figures, the 3 series' gain was +24.7%. Lets compare that to last month's sales number: The current 3 series' US sales numbers after the 1st 3 quarters of 2012 was 68352 unit year to date and compare to the Sep 2011's sales figures, the 3 series' current YTD sales numbers are negative 3.1%compare to the prior year.

Furthermore, letís take a look at the market share between the 3 series vs. the C class, A4 and the Infinite G. In Sep 2007, BMW 3 series sold 97039 unit YTD, A4, 29469 YTD, Infiniti G, 47132 and the C class, 36184. The 3 series had a 46% US market share in Sep 2007. Lets compare that to todayís market share, BMW 3 series sold 68352 unit YTD in Sep 2012, A4, 41235 YTD, Infiniti G, 46034 and the C class, 57740. The current 3 series' US market share is down to 32%.
That's not the right time comparison. The F30 is only 6 months old.

Additionally, the US release of the E90 was delayed 3 months from the European launch and XDrive was available from the start. There was no apparent dumping of E46 loaners either. Just too many variables to find the easy smoking gun here.

If we're looking for commonalities, during both the E90 and F30 transitions, in the first 9-12 months the 3 Series had three consecutive quarters of sales drop with two of them in double digits, the Coupe/Vert/Wagon nosediving badly in anticipation of a new bodystyle.

The alarms can sound with the March 2013 quarterly report as that will show the complete first year of F30 sales and the first six months of XDrive models.

BJ
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  #108  
Old 10-04-2012, 08:03 AM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Thatís a good question, Letís try to look back at the same time period when the 3 series was last redesign as compare to the current redesign, about one year into its redesign, which would be around Sep 2007:

The 3 series' US sales numbers after the first 3 quarters of 2007 was 97039 unit year to date and compare to the Sep 2006's YTD sales figures, the 3 series' gain was +24.7%. Lets compare that to last month's sales number: The current 3 series' US sales numbers after the 1st 3 quarters of 2012 was 68352 unit year to date and compare to the Sep 2011's sales figures, the 3 series' current YTD sales numbers are negative 3.1%compare to the prior year.

Furthermore, letís take a look at the market share between the 3 series vs. the C class, A4 and the Infinite G. In Sep 2007, BMW 3 series sold 97039 unit YTD, A4, 29469 YTD, Infiniti G, 47132 and the C class, 36184. The 3 series had a 46% US market share in Sep 2007. Lets compare that to todayís market share, BMW 3 series sold 68352 unit YTD in Sep 2012, A4, 41235 YTD, Infiniti G, 46034 and the C class, 57740. The current 3 series' US market share is down to 32%.
You're off by a year. The E90 started as a 2006 model in March 2005.
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  #109  
Old 10-04-2012, 08:28 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
You're off by a year. The E90 started as a 2006 model in March 2005.
The market shares among the top brands in this segment are still valid. It underscores the more stiff competition the 3 series faces. The question is, whether shifting the focus of the 3 more to the luxury and comfort side can better compete with the other brands.
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  #110  
Old 10-04-2012, 08:44 AM
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Yes for both. The competition are more active in refreshing their models within the design cycles.
I didn't think that an all new A4 was due out till late 2014.
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  #111  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:38 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
You're off by a year. The E90 started as a 2006 model in March 2005.
Its was kind of a early model year so I rounded it off, but lets take a look at the SEP 2006 YTD sales numbers: 3 series, Sep 2006 YTD 87399 units, Infiniti G, 43542, C class, 36771 and the A4, 33966. BMW had a 43% market share at that time. Pretty similar to the 2007 numbers, it just goes to show you that BMW had a much stronger hold on the small sport luxury car market back then.
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  #112  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:58 AM
vs123 vs123 is offline
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The F30 is clearly the most fun to drive in the category. My ranking:
328
G37
A4
C
But it should not be counted in the luxury category since the interior is really cheap looking (even with the luxury line trim).

From a fun to drive aspect, the F30 was the only car that instantly brought a smile. The g37 is almost as good but too much road/engine noise inside and that would bother me after awhile.
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  #113  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:10 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vs123 View Post
The F30 is clearly the most fun to drive in the category. My ranking:
328
G37
A4
C
But it should not be counted in the luxury category since the interior is really cheap looking (even with the luxury line trim).

From a fun to drive aspect, the F30 was the only car that instantly brought a smile. The g37 is almost as good but too much road/engine noise inside and that would bother me after awhile.
This was the exact same assessment I made back in 2010. Earlier this year I drove several F30's. I agree the new 3 is still ahead, but has become softer.

Now I had driven an ATS, I can say it is more fun than F30. The ATS has several misses of its own, so I say they both are equal, and above the rest.
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  #114  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:19 AM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Its was kind of a early model year so I rounded it off, but lets take a look at the SEP 2006 YTD sales numbers: 3 series, Sep 2006 YTD 87399 units, Infiniti G, 43542, C class, 36771 and the A4, 33966. BMW had a 43% market share at that time. Pretty similar to the 2007 numbers, it just goes to show you that BMW had a much stronger hold on the small sport luxury car market back then.
No doubt, but it's Mercedes Benz that turned the tide, not any of those off-brands.

They woke up, invested effort in making the C a non-boring and aesthetically hot looking car, and took away E90 sales. I don't look at that as a BMW failure; I look at that as MB waking up from a coma and washing the stupid off its face. BMW stole MB sales for a decade, they woke up, took it back. Nothing BMW can do about a competitor deciding to not be stupid anymore.

As relates to the F30, it's now the hot new car with the C getting long in the tooth and overexposed. Luxury status-symbols for the $100K crowd are always influenced by style, technology, and newness, and where MB won on comfort, that's been addressed too.

Any non-niche-enthusiast whose driven an F30 knows its a remarkable car, a quantum leap ahead of the E90, a big distance ahead of the C, certainly the best 3 Series ever. Since that group represents 95% of the buyers in that segment, there is no issue here.

BJ
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Last edited by boltjaM3s; 10-04-2012 at 10:22 AM.
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  #115  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:27 AM
vs123 vs123 is offline
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The 2014 Mercedes CLA promises to add a little competition to the segment...
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  #116  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:32 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
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As relates to the F30, it's now the hot new car with the C getting long in the tooth and overexposed...

BJ
The C Class has really shown some strength in sales in the last two months, out-selling the new 3. Maybe it is not so long in the tooth and overexposed. Frankly I was surprised how strong the C has been lately.

However to say there is really nothing BMW could do?

Last edited by dtc100; 10-04-2012 at 10:33 AM.
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  #117  
Old 10-04-2012, 11:15 AM
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Based on the numbers posted by X Men it appears that for the time peiods cited the market grew slightly and the 3 Series lost sales and market share to Audi and Mercedes who both showed significant gains while Infiniti was relatively stagnant, and in fact was down slightly,

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  #118  
Old 10-04-2012, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by vs123 View Post
The F30 is clearly the most fun to drive in the category. My ranking:
328
G37
A4
C
Interesting. From my 2000 test drives:

328i
Lexus IS300
A4
C

But ended up buying a '95 325i, which was even more fun when I test drove it.

don't remember driving any Nissan products.
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  #119  
Old 10-04-2012, 11:57 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Based on the numbers posted by X Men it appears that for the time peiods cited the market grew slightly and the 3 Series lost sales and market share to Audi and Mercedes who both showed significan gains while Infiniti was relatively stagnant, and in fact was down slightly,
captainaudio, thanks for posting those charts, a picture is worth a thousand words. If we took the Infiniti G out of the equation, it sure looks like what the 3 series lost in market share was gained by the C class and the A4.
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  #120  
Old 10-04-2012, 12:32 PM
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Is it possible that, after 5 pages and 118 posts, we've finally arrived at the answer to the original question in this thread?
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  #121  
Old 10-04-2012, 12:58 PM
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The above only compared 4 models, the Lexus IS was not included. The Acura TL is also in this segment. Believe it or not, Buick Verano has done very well as a new entry, moving 4k to 5k units in the last months. Although not entirely a direct competitor, I think it had easily grabbed some market share from every entry above.
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  #122  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:05 PM
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My neighbor across the street who had a E46 330i, had gotten into an accident and totaled it. He came home with a brand new Infiniti G Sedan (non S).

I asked him why he jumped ship from BMW, he's the type that did all his own maintenance. He said they're too pricey for him, just thought I'd share since it seemed relevant to this thread...

I've seen the other threads about pricing historically being similar, yada yada yada. But truth be told, the car just came out, and a lot of the new ones on the lot are loaded up way above 45k+ range.

Chris
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  #123  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:11 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
The above only compared 4 models, the Lexus IS was not included. The Acura TL is also in this segment. Believe it or not, Buick Verano has done very well as a new entry, moving 4k to 5k units in the last months. Although not entirely a direct competitor, I think it had easily grabbed some market share from every entry above.
I very seriously doubt the Buick Verano a FWD version of the Chevy Cruse is stealing sales from the German sport sedans? And while the TL is in the same price range it's no more a competitor to these cars than the Buick Regal. It may attract a few in this price range but it's in no way a direct competitor to the 3 series and it's ilk.
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  #124  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:21 PM
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Considering most people lease, i was quoted 615 for an audi a4 and my 328 is currently 570. both same price no money down.

I was looking at the c350 about 5 years ago and they quoted me 795. i laughed all the way out the dealer lol.

Will be interesting to see what the real lease on a nicely equipped ats is.
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  #125  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:36 PM
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On a 2-yr basis, the relative winners are the ES and C while the losers are the G and 3-series.

Relative share
Sep10 Sep12 Diff. Model
12% 18% 6% ES
16% 22% 5% C
8% 9% 1% TL
8% 8% 1% A4
8% 6% -1% IS
14% 10% -4% G
28% 21% -7% 3
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