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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #201  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:52 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
BMW builds 335's based on consumer demand. They aren't artificially suppressing the demand to sell more 328's.
If so, would you agree BMW's demand forecast has been wrong, for a long while now, based on everyone's observation, including our site sponsers?
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  #202  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:54 AM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
So you are convinced CAFE standard has no impact on how many 335s BMW builds?
None. That isn't the way it works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
BMW builds 335's based on consumer demand. They aren't artificially suppressing the demand to sell more 328's.
100% correct.
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  #203  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:54 AM
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Technic Technic is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Value packages like you describe on your car is a very typical ploy for a car at the end of it's life cycle.

These are offered to keep interest in a car years into it's cycle. They make for very attractive lease offers too.

This is just how it goes.

About a year or so before a new model, even with something like an Altima they whip out a value package where things like power seats and moonroof are offered when they might have been part of a much more expensive package before. The price is low, maybe $189 a month. Then the new model comes out and often packages restrict things all over again and lease prices are higher.

This is not an absolute all the time kind of thing, but it's very common.

I would be willing to bet, that as the F30 ages in cycle, you will see the value packages back and priced accordingly.

It's simply in a manufacturers bag of tricks to keep interest up along a 5 year timeline.
Going back 26 years, BMW has used the Value Package once. In the 2011 E90. If you pay attention to BMW long enough you will quickly realize that they profoundly dislike giving equipment/options for free. The Value Package was a temporary anomaly to patch up a car that was deeply lacking in standard equipment compared to even a Hyundai.

And it really worked for awhile.

With the updated standard equipment in the 2013 F30 (but at a higher MSRP) I do not see the Value Package happening again, IMO.
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  #204  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by windsor027 View Post
I am not saying you wrong dude, but this is not a production issue, its a restriction issue BMW has to deal with. And again since the 335i is not that much more expensive than the 328i no wonder they are dealing with this issue. Hell if I was making the decisions at BMW, I would have given the 335i a 40 Hp and 50 lbs or torque boost and added a couple of more thousand to its price, while including at the very least heated font seats. I think they are realizing this now because you saw the difference between the standard equipment of the 2012 F30 and the 2013. Totally stupid IMO not giving this brand new model a boast in power to the N55.
That decision was already made: the 4-Series.
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  #205  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:56 AM
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Never seen someone so mad that they got a 2011. It's so obvious the guy has to put down the F30 to make himself feel better about his purchase lol.
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  #206  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:59 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I did drive the CC, and don't remember how it was after two years. If I am willing to consider the mainstream brands, not entry level luxury, I might as well be sporty, youthful, and practical at the same time.
I've considered the GTI as well. I eliminated the 2011 CC due to lack of a center rear seat as we had an infant and wanted the car seat in the center. I don't have that requirement anymore but the 2013 model has a full rear seat anyway.

If I decide that a VW works for me after my BMW lease ends I will look at both the CC and GTI especially the next generation GTI. The CC us a bit more grown up than the GTI. Also, I didn't realize the CC still offered a MT which is what I'd choose.
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  #207  
Old 10-05-2012, 09:28 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
None. That isn't the way it works.



100% correct.
If you are so sure about that, you must admit BMW has totally miscalculated the demand, when the dealers have been seriously in shortage of 335s, and too many 328s sitting there.

So either you conclude BMW was clueless, or something else is at play.
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  #208  
Old 10-05-2012, 09:30 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
That decision was already made: the 4-Series.
I thought the 4 series is just coupes? Is it going to be something between 335 and M3?
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  #209  
Old 10-05-2012, 09:49 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Going back 26 years, BMW has used the Value Package once. In the 2011 E90. If you pay attention to BMW long enough you will quickly realize that they profoundly dislike giving equipment/options for free. The Value Package was a temporary anomaly to patch up a car that was deeply lacking in standard equipment compared to even a Hyundai.

And it really worked for awhile.

With the updated standard equipment in the 2013 F30 (but at a higher MSRP) I do not see the Value Package happening again, IMO.
The car industry moves and changes.

I do not care that BMW had not had to do a value package before. The point is, they did for the E90.

Whether they call it a VP again, dunno, doesn't matter.

They will add more features as standard that increase value in a larger relation to increase in price, that is the nature of a car being around for 5 years.

Now granted, they raised the price, but just from '12-13 we got the standard power seats and split folding rear seat, maybe a couple of other small changes.

As this car ages, more things will be added as standard, option packages will be re-structured, and prices will go up very little increasing the value proposition.

BMW is not immune to this strategy.
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  #210  
Old 10-05-2012, 09:58 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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It also has to do with market share and competition. If the value package had proven a winning strategy last year, the first time it was used, then it could easily be used again.

Personally I'd love to see a free or some option credit on the m sport package. They are doing this on the 7 series.

Last edited by dtc100; 10-05-2012 at 10:00 AM.
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  #211  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:03 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
If you are so sure about that, you must admit BMW has totally miscalculated the demand, when the dealers have been seriously in shortage of 335s, and too many 328s sitting there.

So either you conclude BMW was clueless, or something else is at play.
You're using short term anecdotal information to make your conclusions.

Last edited by Michael Schott; 10-05-2012 at 10:14 AM.
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  #212  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:20 AM
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Technic Technic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
The car industry moves and changes.

I do not care that BMW had not had to do a value package before. The point is, they did for the E90.

Whether they call it a VP again, dunno, doesn't matter.

They will add more features as standard that increase value in a larger relation to increase in price, that is the nature of a car being around for 5 years.

Now granted, they raised the price, but just from '12-13 we got the standard power seats and split folding rear seat, maybe a couple of other small changes.

As this car ages, more things will be added as standard, option packages will be re-structured, and prices will go up very little increasing the value proposition.

BMW is not immune to this strategy.
It seems to me that this thread is full of angry little men.
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  #213  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:22 AM
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Technic Technic is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I thought the 4 series is just coupes? Is it going to be something between 335 and M3?
My comment was more in line of having a 335i with more power, torque and making it more expensive. That's the job of the upcoming 4-Series...
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  #214  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:25 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
It seems to me that this thread is full of angry little men.
Excuse me?

I have only had calm, well presented info in this thread.

Careful what you say or assumptions you make on the interweb to complete strangers on a car forum.
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  #215  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:27 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
You're using short term anecdotal information to make your conclusions.
I don't think it is short term, it was so right at the start of the F30. It is certainly not anecdotal.
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  #216  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:53 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I don't think it is short term, it was so right at the start of the F30. It is certainly not anecdotal.
I can't find where we've talked about demand outstripping supply on the 335. Can you tell me where to find these posts please?
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  #217  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
I've considered the GTI as well. I eliminated the 2011 CC due to lack of a center rear seat as we had an infant and wanted the car seat in the center. I don't have that requirement anymore but the 2013 model has a full rear seat anyway.
Most cars aren't actually designed to take a car seat in the middle - I don't think BMWs are. You can certainly mount one there using the LATCH connectors designed for the outboard seats, but just keep in mind they aren't designed for a center seat.
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  #218  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:13 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
I can't find where we've talked about demand outstripping supply on the 335. Can you tell me where to find these posts please?
Two posts in this thread just in the past 12 hours, also ask Jon. If still not sure, call a few dealers.
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  #219  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:14 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Most cars aren't actually designed to take a car seat in the middle - I don't think BMWs are. You can certainly mount one there using the LATCH connectors designed for the outboard seats, but just keep in mind they aren't designed for a center seat.
I loved my 4 seater CC. The 5 seater looks like kind of an after thought.

It was nice when I went out with my in-laws, "Sorry, we have to take two cars, the CC only seats 4".
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  #220  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:41 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Most cars aren't actually designed to take a car seat in the middle - I don't think BMWs are. You can certainly mount one there using the LATCH connectors designed for the outboard seats, but just keep in mind they aren't designed for a center seat.
Doesn't matter now. He's 2 and has been behind the passenger seat for over a year.
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  #221  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:51 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Two posts in this thread just in the past 12 hours, also ask Jon. If still not sure, call a few dealers.
You are the one making the claim. You provide the facts. I read Windsor's post and if one dealer is not anecdotal then nothing is. I still say as do others that it's total BS that BMW is suppressing 335 sales to boost CAFE.

By the way CAFE is calculated by fleet numbers. If BMW was trying to boost fleet CAFE artificially they would make it hard to get cars that get the worse mileage and sell in good quantities like the 535i, 550i and every 7 series.
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  #222  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
You are the one making the claim. You provide the facts. I read Windsor's post and if one dealer is not anecdotal then nothing is. I still say as do others that it's total BS that BMW is suppressing 335 sales to boost CAFE.

By the way CAFE is calculated by fleet numbers. If BMW was trying to boost fleet CAFE artificially they would make it hard to get cars that get the worse mileage and sell in good quantities like the 535i, 550i and every 7 series.
It's not worth arguing with someone who has an agenda.
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  #223  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:09 PM
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Doesn't matter now. He's 2 and has been behind the passenger seat for over a year.
Just FYI, cause you know kids have a habit of multiplying.
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  #224  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:13 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
You are the one making the claim. You provide the facts. I read Windsor's post and if one dealer is not anecdotal then nothing is. I still say as do others that it's total BS that BMW is suppressing 335 sales to boost CAFE.

By the way CAFE is calculated by fleet numbers. If BMW was trying to boost fleet CAFE artificially they would make it hard to get cars that get the worse mileage and sell in good quantities like the 535i, 550i and every 7 series.
Did you ask Jon? Pretty much every sponsor at Bimmerfest had said they had shortage of 335s, I have talked to two of my local dealers, the same thing.

As for why, I never made a claim, just a speculation. I even said it could be all wrong. But don't dismiss the facts just because you did not care to learn about them.

You on the other hand made a claim that BMW's 328/335 production allocations are entirely based on consumer demands. You did not even offer any factual support, just a statement.

Last edited by dtc100; 10-05-2012 at 12:18 PM.
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  #225  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:17 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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CAFE is about EPA ratings, not consumer actual experience numbers obviously.

Fact is EPA ratings between the N55 and N20 are strikingly close. There is a larger disparity between actual drivers results. But due to EPA rating, I doubt very much BMW would shuffle output on cars with ratings so similar.
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