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  #1  
Old 10-07-2012, 08:32 PM
jblackburn jblackburn is offline
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2012 X3 Lease calcs

Hello,

I went to my local Bay Area dealership to take a look at X3's and X1's. I have a vehicle coming off lease in the next 2 months so I need to start looking at a replacement. I wasn't planning on buying anything today, so I didn't come very prepared. I didn't have invoice pricing and didn't look at their in-stock cars prior to my visit. The sales person seemed somewhat interested in getting me out of my current lease now so he put together some numbers for me. They were "willing" to take my current car, but there wasn't any benefit in it for me. There is some weirdness that I haven't seen on a lease calc before, so I thought I would show it here. I'm going to put everything that isn't directly identifiable here.

1. Contract Date:10/07/12
2. Stock number: ******
3. Lease Institution: BMW
4. Buyer Residence Info: ****
5. MSRP: $55845.00
6. Add to MSRP W/Markup:
7. Annual Mileage: 12000
8. Mileage Penalty:
9. Residual %: 58.0%
10. Lease-end Value: $32390
11 Rebate:
12. Initial Cap Cost $53611
13. Customer Cash Down:
14. Cash Cap Reduction:
15. Total Trade:
16. Total Sales Tax: $2320.06
17. Aftermkt/Due Bill
18. Total Adds to Cap: $925
19. Service Contract:
20. Driver Care:
21. BMW Maint:
Adjusted Cap Cost: $54536
22. Money Factor: .00175
23. Term: 36
24. Mo Use Tax: 8.3750% 64.26
25. Total Monthly Payment $831.54
26. Security Deposit
27. Total Initial Fees: $95.50
28. Total Annual Fees: $466
29. Driveoff: $1399.74


This was a pretty loaded X3 xdrive35i - M sport, Premium, Cold Weather, Tech Package, Park Distance control, Carbon Black.

bmwconfig.com is showing the MSRP with those options to be $55545, so I'm guess there is a $300 charge added for MACO already.

I didn't notice the $446 "annual fee" until I got home, and I've never seen something like that before. Any ideas on what that really is besides "profit"?

Obviously the acquisition fee is marked up $200, and I haven't check to see how much the money factor is marked up, but I haven't figured out how they even got that lease payment based on the info they gave me. I would think the Security Deposit would normally be $850.

I have a few weeks to continue my search and will probably hit up a board sponsor. I was really impressed with the Carbon Black and Mojave leather. It was amazingly beautiful.
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  #2  
Old 10-07-2012, 09:53 PM
LongBeachBMW LongBeachBMW is offline
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It looks like the Annual Fee is the 1st Year DMV Fees. That's a legitimate fee. MACO in Southern California is $430 + $180 Training Fee. I assume that in Northern California it is almost the same. $300 for MACO is low.

There is a pull-ahead program right now for certain 2010 BMW's. Up to three payments will be waived. Thus, you may be able to get out now.

Like you said, you were not really prepared, which is understandable due to your circumstances. Bay Area dealers are not as aggressive as Southern California dealers. I have many people who fly down to Long Beach Airport on Jet Blue and drive back up.
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  #3  
Old 10-07-2012, 10:23 PM
jblackburn jblackburn is offline
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Thanks for the response. The $466 for the DMV fee seems likely. I was surprised they didn't have MACO and training separate, but I'm guessing they just bundled it into the cap cost. I was finally able to duplicate the payment using my excel spreadsheet.
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  #4  
Old 10-07-2012, 11:05 PM
BMW_F1 BMW_F1 is offline
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I thought that MACO and Training were only added to the invoice price and not MSRP (ie. dealer profit at MSRP is MSRP-(invoice+MACO+Training). In any case the dealership has also hiked up the MF from the base rate of .00135 to .00175.
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  #5  
Old 10-08-2012, 12:02 AM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_F1 View Post
I thought that MACO and Training were only added to the invoice price and not MSRP (ie. dealer profit at MSRP is MSRP-(invoice+MACO+Training). .
Correct. If the dealer sells at MSRP, then they absorb MACO and Training.

It is only when you drive a (relateively) low profit deal at invoice, that they list these as costs to them (which they are)
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2012, 12:07 AM
LongBeachBMW LongBeachBMW is offline
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Yes, MACO & Training Fees are added to the Invoice Price, not the MSRP. If you are negotiating based on how much off MSRP, then you don't need to worry about it. But if you are negotiating based on Invoice, then MACO & Training Fees are legitimate fees added to the Invoice.

Some websites like Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book do not have these fees on their Invoice calculations and it is always a problem with people unaware of these fees. Bimmefest members are more informed, so it is never a problem.
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  #7  
Old 10-08-2012, 09:20 AM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblackburn View Post
Hello,

I went to my local Bay Area dealership to take a look at X3's and X1's. I have a vehicle coming off lease in the next 2 months so I need to start looking at a replacement. I wasn't planning on buying anything today, so I didn't come very prepared. I didn't have invoice pricing and didn't look at their in-stock cars prior to my visit. The sales person seemed somewhat interested in getting me out of my current lease now so he put together some numbers for me. They were "willing" to take my current car, but there wasn't any benefit in it for me. There is some weirdness that I haven't seen on a lease calc before, so I thought I would show it here. I'm going to put everything that isn't directly identifiable here.

1. Contract Date:10/07/12
2. Stock number: ******
3. Lease Institution: BMW
4. Buyer Residence Info: ****
5. MSRP: $55845.00
6. Add to MSRP W/Markup:
7. Annual Mileage: 12000
8. Mileage Penalty:
9. Residual %: 58.0%
10. Lease-end Value: $32390
11 Rebate:
12. Initial Cap Cost $53611
13. Customer Cash Down:
14. Cash Cap Reduction:
15. Total Trade:
16. Total Sales Tax: $2320.06
17. Aftermkt/Due Bill
18. Total Adds to Cap: $925
19. Service Contract:
20. Driver Care:
21. BMW Maint:
Adjusted Cap Cost: $54536
22. Money Factor: .00175
23. Term: 36
24. Mo Use Tax: 8.3750% 64.26
25. Total Monthly Payment $831.54
26. Security Deposit
27. Total Initial Fees: $95.50
28. Total Annual Fees: $466
29. Driveoff: $1399.74


This was a pretty loaded X3 xdrive35i - M sport, Premium, Cold Weather, Tech Package, Park Distance control, Carbon Black.

bmwconfig.com is showing the MSRP with those options to be $55545, so I'm guess there is a $300 charge added for MACO already.
I am confused, are you buying the car or leasing that car? It looks like a lease but then you have $2k in sales tax?

Also, looks like the aq fee is high (should be $725) and there does not seem to be much of a discount on the car. This is for a 2012 or 2013?

What did BMWconfig show as the invoice cost? Remember work from there up
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  #8  
Old 10-08-2012, 11:27 AM
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Orient330iNYC Orient330iNYC is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblackburn View Post
Hello,

I went to my local Bay Area dealership to take a look at X3's and X1's. I have a vehicle coming off lease in the next 2 months so I need to start looking at a replacement. I wasn't planning on buying anything today, so I didn't come very prepared. I didn't have invoice pricing and didn't look at their in-stock cars prior to my visit. The sales person seemed somewhat interested in getting me out of my current lease now so he put together some numbers for me. They were "willing" to take my current car, but there wasn't any benefit in it for me. There is some weirdness that I haven't seen on a lease calc before, so I thought I would show it here. I'm going to put everything that isn't directly identifiable here.

1. Contract Date:10/07/12
2. Stock number: ******
3. Lease Institution: BMW
4. Buyer Residence Info: ****
5. MSRP: $55845.00
6. Add to MSRP W/Markup:
7. Annual Mileage: 12000
8. Mileage Penalty:
9. Residual %: 58.0%
10. Lease-end Value: $32390
11 Rebate:
12. Initial Cap Cost $53611
13. Customer Cash Down:
14. Cash Cap Reduction:
15. Total Trade:
16. Total Sales Tax: $2320.06
17. Aftermkt/Due Bill
18. Total Adds to Cap: $925
19. Service Contract:
20. Driver Care:
21. BMW Maint:
Adjusted Cap Cost: $54536
22. Money Factor: .00175
23. Term: 36
24. Mo Use Tax: 8.3750% 64.26
25. Total Monthly Payment $831.54
26. Security Deposit
27. Total Initial Fees: $95.50
28. Total Annual Fees: $466
29. Driveoff: $1399.74


This was a pretty loaded X3 xdrive35i - M sport, Premium, Cold Weather, Tech Package, Park Distance control, Carbon Black.

bmwconfig.com is showing the MSRP with those options to be $55545, so I'm guess there is a $300 charge added for MACO already.

I didn't notice the $446 "annual fee" until I got home, and I've never seen something like that before. Any ideas on what that really is besides "profit"?

Obviously the acquisition fee is marked up $200, and I haven't check to see how much the money factor is marked up, but I haven't figured out how they even got that lease payment based on the info they gave me. I would think the Security Deposit would normally be $850.

I have a few weeks to continue my search and will probably hit up a board sponsor. I was really impressed with the Carbon Black and Mojave leather. It was amazingly beautiful.
i dont understand how they are charging you sales tax twice,
24. Mo Use Tax: 8.3750% 64.26
and
16. Total Sales Tax: $2320.06

without the mf bump ( they are marking it up to the max), monthly should be 765 inc tax. the acq fee is also marked up to the max
even with the bump it should be 801. not sure how they are coming up with those numbers, but it seems like a rip off "deal"
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Last edited by Orient330iNYC; 10-08-2012 at 11:29 AM.
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  #9  
Old 10-08-2012, 12:06 PM
jblackburn jblackburn is offline
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It was a 2013. I would be leasing. The sales tax is the $64.26 per month x 36 = $2320.

bmwconfig is showing MSRP $54,895 and invoice of $50,655 (if I got the options correct).
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2012, 12:10 PM
tagheuer tagheuer is offline
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man this is why I dropped out of the BMW market.

I leased a well equipped 2006 BMW X3 on Euro Delivery with $900 cap cost reduction and my monthly payment including 6% michigan sales tax was $374 through a board sponsor.

Now a loaded X3 "cute ute" is nearly $900 a month for only 12,000 miles a year....

I had 15,000 miles on my lease.

My 2009 BMW 328x lease with 15,000 miles a year was almost exactly 1/2 this monthly payment.

I don't understand those who say BMWs haven't become more expensive, after correction for inflation....
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  #11  
Old 10-08-2012, 12:28 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblackburn View Post
It was a 2013. I would be leasing. The sales tax is the $64.26 per month x 36 = $2320.

bmwconfig is showing MSRP $54,895 and invoice of $50,655 (if I got the options correct).
OK, but that means on he payment so that is not getting added in...

OK, so seems to me you should be closer to $51,500 for a sales price, and then add the $725 Aq fee for your Cap cost.

Assuming you pay first payment and fees up front you should be at 713+ tax, and that is assuming that really high money factor you got quoted. Recommend you contact a board sponsor (Grep P at Pacific or Jon S in Santa Barbara) for a better quote.

Good luck.
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  #12  
Old 10-08-2012, 12:30 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagheuer View Post
man this is why I dropped out of the BMW market.

I leased a well equipped 2006 BMW X3 on Euro Delivery with $900 cap cost reduction and my monthly payment including 6% michigan sales tax was $374 through a board sponsor.

Now a loaded X3 "cute ute" is nearly $900 a month for only 12,000 miles a year....

I had 15,000 miles on my lease.

My 2009 BMW 328x lease with 15,000 miles a year was almost exactly 1/2 this monthly payment.

I don't understand those who say BMWs haven't become more expensive, after correction for inflation....
The options are what really get out.
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  #13  
Old 10-08-2012, 12:46 PM
thegandalf thegandalf is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
The options are what really get out.
I know, at points is very hard to remain as reasonable as possible. Once you start adding options is easy to get carried a way if you just reason that this is is "just" $1k more if added. It's really important to figure out how much you are willing to pay before start configuring and then make sure you just choose the options that you want while staying within the original budget.........
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  #14  
Old 10-08-2012, 12:55 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Originally Posted by thegandalf View Post
I know, at points is very hard to remain as reasonable as possible. Once you start adding options is easy to get carried a way if you just reason that this is is "just" $1k more if added. It's really important to figure out how much you are willing to pay before start configuring and then make sure you just choose the options that you want while staying within the original budget.........
Yes, and only have that one cookie...
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  #15  
Old 10-08-2012, 05:58 PM
tagheuer tagheuer is offline
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listen, I understand and I've wasted a lot of money over the years on cars.

But something strikes me as fundamentally wrong with paying nearly $900 a month for an X3.

You could get a base Porsche Cayman for that payment range.

Unless you are running this lease through a business.

Sucks you can't do ED on X3s any longer....you could save yourself a boatload of cash.
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  #16  
Old 10-08-2012, 10:43 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Originally Posted by tagheuer View Post
listen, I understand and I've wasted a lot of money over the years on cars.

But something strikes me as fundamentally wrong with paying nearly $900 a month for an X3.

You could get a base Porsche Cayman for that payment range.

Unless you are running this lease through a business.

Sucks you can't do ED on X3s any longer....you could save yourself a boatload of cash.
I dont see how you can compare a base cayman , with a loaded X3. By that logic...

You can get a honda covic and pay it off in two years...
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  #17  
Old 10-10-2012, 12:09 PM
tagheuer tagheuer is offline
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different strokes for different folks.

I could (and actually am) leasing a 2009 BMW 328xi sedan and a 2012 VW GTI (both with zero cap cost reduction) for within $50 a month of what you are paying for an X3.

I think a base Cayman is much more "special" than a loaded X3 with a bunch of computer gizmos.

That's all.
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