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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #226  
Old 10-13-2012, 01:54 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallic-Force View Post
Hey guys, I was here awhile back looking at the F10 535i, but after driving the A6 V6 Supercharged I fell in love.
You mean the A6 that slightly matches the 335is in #'s
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  #227  
Old 10-13-2012, 01:56 PM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallic-Force View Post
Hey guys, I was here awhile back looking at the F10 535i, but after driving the A6 V6 Supercharged I fell in love. Anyway, I can't say anything about this M5 particularly, but I do feel BMW has lost it's way. Driving the 550i was pain, it being the standard was nothing but a hype in my opinion. I'm sorry if I sound insulting, but I was surprised how the car was, for a 400hp car it neither was nimble nor sporty. Power cruiser as some have mentioned is spot on. The next generation will be the biggest change in BMW history I guarantee it. They can't keep this up. The re-imaging of BMW needs to start soon. Lightweight materials are a priority if they want to bring back the Mean in their M cars. I do want to re-iterate that I love BMW and my family owns M3,X6, owned 335i Conv,750Li. I'm the black sheep.
Just the last statement would have been sufficient, the one about the color that is.
What supercharged A6?
Which wheight advantage?
Nimble and sporty. Expected on a car that sits on a 7 series platform...
Man the five is a big car and drives better than the A6.
Go call the union and enjoy your car.
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  #228  
Old 10-13-2012, 02:22 PM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
"I always thought the E60 was too harsh for a daily driver"
This tells me that our preferences differs and that our view of the M5 probably will as well. I never thought the E60 or the M3 are even remotely too harsch as daily drivers. They are taut and communicative but not harsh IMO. And therein lies a lot of the M and BMW magic to me, in how they are able to create such communicative and taut cars that aren't harsh. To manage all three isn't easy, the Audi S4 as an example is taut and not harsh but it's not very communicative, it's too smooth and isolated which was obvious driving it back to back with even a non sport E60 xi.
I was referring to the E60 M5 not the regular E60. I had an E60 and thought it was a very nice balance of sport and luxury. The F10 tips more in the luxury department and less in the sport department. No surprises there. I found the E60 M5 to be too harsh to be a daily driver. Keep in mind that I drive 30k plus miles a year and that makes many sports cars unfit for my commuting needs. If I drove the normal 12k miles a year I would certainly have another M3. My comments need to be taken into context with the driving I do and I was remiss for not including those details in my original post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
I believe Alpine300ZHP was referring to the E60 M5, not a E60 non M (likewise the F10 M5 later in his post, as he is comparing the two M5s in his post). Which turbo E60 did you own?
Ditto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Doesn't matter, they are all great drives from the 528 non sport to the M5, non is harsch. And yes, I've driven the whole range. Well at least the E60s available in the US.
I agree with you. However, I think the F10 is a much better car than the E60 (in 535i and M5 versions anyway).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
So the manual makes it better?
No worse. This car was made for the M DCT hence my comment about the settings making the car so special. No ability to manipulate settings if you get the 6MT version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Oh, I thought we were supposed to disagree with any professional reviewer who says anything bad about the M5.
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Last edited by Alpine300ZHP; 10-13-2012 at 02:24 PM.
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  #229  
Old 10-13-2012, 04:13 PM
Metallic-Force Metallic-Force is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
You mean the A6 that slightly matches the 335is in #'s
I don't get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophisto View Post
Just the last statement would have been sufficient, the one about the color that is.
What supercharged A6?
Which wheight advantage?
Nimble and sporty. Expected on a car that sits on a 7 series platform...
Man the five is a big car and drives better than the A6.
Go call the union and enjoy your car.
The color statement fits nicely since everyone else has a white or red cars, I have a black car with a wash subscription.

2012 A6 (C7) 3.0T, 310HP
(5-116.9 A6-114.7)
A 2.2-inch longer wheelbase shouldn't be the difference between night and day. The A6 drove better, maybe it was the AWD that won me over. They didn't have an xi for a test drive.
I'm talking about the weight Dis-advantage the M5 brought on it-self vs it's previous gen.
With more and more electronics and tech that goes in the car, it only made sense it would gain weight. Also with the lack of Aluminum parts this Gen. (the V8 Twin Turbo is probably lighter than the V10)
Heck, even Ford is researching lighter air injected plastic, but that's because their cars are practically made out of it.
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  #230  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:32 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
I will admit I was really disappionted when BMW announced it was abandoning the aluminum front chassis in favor of a cheaper all steel chassis on the F10. People back then raised weight concerns before we knew the actual numbers. The M5 weight gain is now a matter of fact and it is 375lbs (curb weight: 4012lbs vs 4387lbs) heavier than a car that people already complained was already too heavy! Hopefully, the next generation of fiver will join the weight-loss trend that is currently going strong in the SUV community. As Solstice recently pointed out, the Porsche Cayenne & VW Toureg each lost about 400lbs in their last redesign, but the list doesn't stop there. Other examples of SUV redesigns: the Hyundai Sante Fe lost 266lbs, the Nissan Pathfinder lost 500lbs, and the Range Rover lost a whooping 700lbs! Here's hoping for the future.
M division probably did with 80% parts different. M5 4387 lbs compared to S6 (note not the RS6) at 4398 lbs (compared to F10 550i 4365 lbs)

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

http://models.audiusa.com/s6-sedan/d...specifications

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
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  #231  
Old 10-13-2012, 10:27 PM
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dunderhi dunderhi is offline
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
M division probably did with 80% parts different. M5 4387 lbs compared to S6 (note not the RS6) at 4398 lbs (compared to F10 550i 4365 lbs)

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

http://models.audiusa.com/s6-sedan/d...specifications

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
M Division did what? The new M5 gained 375lbs over the previous M5. The F10 M5 weighs 22lbs more than the F10 550i, whereas the E60 M5 weighed 187lbs less then the E60 550i. BTW, the 2013 AWD S6 lost 88lbs vs the 2011 AWD S6.
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  #232  
Old 10-14-2012, 08:51 AM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
M Division did what? The new M5 gained 375lbs over the previous M5. The F10 M5 weighs 22lbs more than the F10 550i, whereas the E60 M5 weighed 187lbs less then the E60 550i. BTW, the 2013 AWD S6 lost 88lbs vs the 2011 AWD S6.
Let me introduce this website that was previously introduced to me http://www.autozine.org/Archive/BMW/new/5er_F10.html

Very objective I would say, and which has some points mentioned by some on the other side of the fence.

How about you answering the question for us tell us whether the M5 is 22 lbs "better" than the F10 or 375 lbs "better" than the E60 M5. Test drive the M5 and give us your views. Views of armchair critiques are worth only the fart we discharge Useless to tell us that one would not be buying the M5, esp if the person just bought a M3 about 1/2 years ago (unless of course the person has plenty $ to burn). Am not into bigger engine/power unless it handles differently.

One more point, views like the M3 is the better sport sedan are also worthless; one needs to take into account needs/preferences/wants. Some F30 owners complain that the F30 is not sufficiently insulated and not lux enough. Many want some lux and safe car (which in the norm would be heavier) For the latter, you'll appreciate it when you get into a severe accident (not of your fault).

ps A car losing 88/200/300/700 lbs is irrelevant; what matters is the weight now and how the car handles. So what if it lost 88 lbs, if it was overweight then. True, the lux and comfort has gone up in the F10, some would not have bought if it looks like the E60. Again, the issue it how the car handles comparatively. To me a car is crap if its steering feel is junk, even if it's faster.

Last edited by bm323; 10-14-2012 at 09:07 AM.
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  #233  
Old 10-14-2012, 09:11 AM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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BM323 I gave up arguing with these idiots. If you follow their logic the ultimate evolution of the car would be a go kart. They are incapable of multidimensional perspectives. Plus they haven't even driven this car, they are just a bunch of armchair commentators who can't appreciate that the whole is more than the sum of parts.
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Last edited by Stealth.Pilot; 10-14-2012 at 09:15 AM.
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  #234  
Old 10-14-2012, 09:11 AM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
the E60 M5 weighed 187lbs less then the E60 550i.
This is interesting btw, pls provide links. Too late here, to explore this further

http://www.fantasycars.com/sedans/HT...5550i_e60.html

http://www.autoworld.co.za/NewCarDis...px?Variant=547

http://www.autoevolution.com/engine/...2006-550i.html

Last edited by bm323; 10-14-2012 at 09:14 AM.
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  #235  
Old 10-14-2012, 09:17 AM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
BM323 I gave up arguing with these idiots. If you follow their logic the ultimate evolution of the car would be a go kart. They are incapable of multidimensional perspectives. Plus they haven't even driven this car, they are just a bunch of armchair commentators who can't appreciate that the whole is more than the sum of parts.
am hoping that they give us their honest views after test driving it and all these debates
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  #236  
Old 10-14-2012, 10:18 AM
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AutoUnion AutoUnion is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallic-Force View Post
Hey guys, I was here awhile back looking at the F10 535i, but after driving the A6 V6 Supercharged I fell in love. Anyway, I can't say anything about this M5 particularly, but I do feel BMW has lost it's way. Driving the 550i was pain, it being the standard was nothing but a hype in my opinion. I'm sorry if I sound insulting, but I was surprised how the car was, for a 400hp car it neither was nimble nor sporty. Power cruiser as some have mentioned is spot on. The next generation will be the biggest change in BMW history I guarantee it. They can't keep this up. The re-imaging of BMW needs to start soon. Lightweight materials are a priority if they want to bring back the Mean in their M cars. I do want to re-iterate that I love BMW and my family owns M3,X6, owned 335i Conv,750Li. I'm the black sheep.


I predict a couple more pages of BS arguments before it gets locked as usual...
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  #237  
Old 10-14-2012, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
You mean the A6 that slightly matches the 335is in #'s
Invalid comparison. Who, in their right mind, compares a smaller 3 series to the larger A6? That would be like comparing the 535i to the 335i and proclaiming that the F10 is slower. Of course, it is
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  #238  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:21 AM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Invalid comparison. Who, in their right mind, compares a smaller 3 series to the larger A6? That would be like comparing the 535i to the 335i and proclaiming that the F10 is slower. Of course, it is

4,045 curb = a6
4,034 curb = is

Since weight is such a hot topic right now , and even just stick a $799 ppk on a base 335i and that will suffice

Last edited by SuperTerp; 10-14-2012 at 11:22 AM.
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  #239  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:28 AM
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dunderhi dunderhi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
M Division did what? The new M5 gained 375lbs over the previous M5. The F10 M5 weighs 22lbs more than the F10 550i, whereas the E60 M5 weighed 187lbs less then the E60 550i. BTW, the 2013 AWD S6 lost 88lbs vs the 2011 AWD S6.
Let me introduce this website that was previously introduced to me http://www.autozine.org/Archive/BMW/new/5er_F10.html

Very objective I would say, and which has some points mentioned by some on the other side of the fence.

How about you answering the question for us tell us whether the M5 is 22 lbs "better" than the F10 or 375 lbs "better" than the E60 M5. Test drive the M5 and give us your views. Views of armchair critiques are worth only the fart we discharge Useless to tell us that one would not be buying the M5, esp if the person just bought a M3 about 1/2 years ago (unless of course the person has plenty $ to burn). Am not into bigger engine/power unless it handles differently.

One more point, views like the M3 is the better sport sedan are also worthless; one needs to take into account needs/preferences/wants. Some F30 owners complain that the F30 is not sufficiently insulated and not lux enough. Many want some lux and safe car (which in the norm would be heavier) For the latter, you'll appreciate it when you get into a severe accident (not of your fault).

ps A car losing 88/200/300/700 lbs is irrelevant; what matters is the weight now and how the car handles. So what if it lost 88 lbs, if it was overweight then. True, the lux and comfort has gone up in the F10, some would not have bought if it looks like the E60. Again, the issue it how the car handles comparatively. To me a car is crap if its steering feel is junk, even if it's faster.
WTF? I've made no judgements as to how the M5 performs, I just try to give people the data from measurements. If you don't like that FACT the M5 gained wieght, it's not my fault.

BTW, your Autozine numbers are extremely low.

Autozine:
F10 550 - 1830kg (4026lb)
F10 M5 - 1870kg (4114lb))

E60 550 - 1660kg (3652lb)
E60 M5 -1755kg (3861lb)


Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
BM323 I gave up arguing with these idiots. If you follow their logic the ultimate evolution of the car would be a go kart. They are incapable of multidimensional perspectives. Plus they haven't even driven this car, they are just a bunch of armchair commentators who can't appreciate that the whole is more than the sum of parts.
am hoping that they give us their honest views after test driving it and all these debates

Again, I have no issues with the M5 or on how the M5 drives since as I have previously posted in this thread I haven't driven one yet. I will give the M5 a fair and just evaluation when I get around to driving one, but frankly I would prefer driving an M6. That said, I am dissappointed in the press the car has received thus far. I'm just tired of fanbois putting out misleading info and attacking anyone who disagrees with their fantasies. If anyone who drives an M5 wouldn't think it would be a better performer if it weighed 300lbs less doesn't know anything about cars. Idiots indeed.
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Last edited by dunderhi; 10-14-2012 at 11:36 AM.
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  #240  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:34 AM
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dunderhi dunderhi is offline
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Automobile Catalog has what appears to be realistic numbers: http://www.automobile-catalog.com/list-bmw.html

F10 550 - 1985kg (4376lb)
F10 M5 - 1990kg (4387lb))

E60 550 - 1800kg (3968lb)
E60 M5 -1780kg (3924lb)
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  #241  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:35 AM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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If anyone who drives an M5 wouldn't think it would be a better performer if it weighed 300lbs less doesn't know anything about cars. Idiots indeed.
The same applies to women
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  #242  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:45 AM
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dunderhi dunderhi is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
The same applies to women
Let's not be gender biased now.

I bet if our resident afficionados had 400+lb wives/husbands/girlfriends/boyfriends they would disagree with you useless of course you took a 400+ pounder for a test ride.
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  #243  
Old 10-14-2012, 06:31 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Automobile Catalog has what appears to be realistic numbers: http://www.automobile-catalog.com/list-bmw.html

F10 550 - 1985kg (4376lb)
F10 M5 - 1990kg (4387lb))

E60 550 - 1800kg (3968lb)
E60 M5 -1780kg (3924lb)
Good site, with the different years specs Below for the last year available and it doesn't appear that the E60 M5 was lighter than the E60 550i

Data for BMW 550i Steptronic, manufactured or sold in 2010, version for Europe with 4-door sedan body type, RWD (rear-wheel drive) and automatic 6-speed gearbox (with Steptronic manual shift mode). Basic www.automobile-catalog.com specs and characteristics: petrol (gasoline) engine of 4799 cm3 / 292.9 cui displacement with advertised power 270 kW / 362 hp / 367 PS ( ECE ) / 6300 and 490 Nm / 361 lb-ft / 3400 of torque. Dimensions: this model outside length is 4841 mm / 190.6 in, it's 1846 mm / 72.7 in wide and has wheelbase of 2888 mm / 113.7 in. The officially claimed value of a drag coefficient Cd = 0.27 . Standard wheels were fitted with the tires size: (check standard and alternate tire sizes). Reference vehicle weights are: official base curb weight 1660 kg / 3659 lbs, gross weight GVWR 2220 kg / 4894 lbs. How fast is that car ? Performance: top speed 250 km/h (155 mph) electronically governed (declared by factory); accelerations 0- 60 mph 5 s, 0- 100 km/h 5.3 s (declared by factory), 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 13.3 s (a-c simulation). Fuel consumption and mileage: official: 10.3 l/100km / 27.4 mpg (imp.) / 22.8 mpg (U.S.) / 9.7 km/l , average estimated by a-c: 19 l/100km / 15 mpg (imp.) / 12.4 mpg (U.S.) / 5.3 km/l, average estimated combined driving range of this car is 371 km / 230 miles.

Specs of BMW M5, manufactured or sold in 2010, version for Europe with 4-door sedan body type, RWD (rear-wheel drive) and semi-automatic 7-speed gearbox. Basic www.automobile-catalog.com specs and characteristics: petrol (gasoline) engine of 4999 cm3 / 304.6 cui displacement with advertised power 373 kW / 500 hp / 507 PS ( ECE ) / 7750 and 520 Nm / 383 lb-ft / 6100 of torque. Dimensions: this model outside length is 4855 mm / 191.1 in, it's 1846 mm / 72.7 in wide and has wheelbase of 2889 mm / 113.7 in. The officially claimed value of a drag coefficient Cd = 0.31 . Standard wheels were fitted with the tires size: (check standard and alternate tire sizes). Reference vehicle weights are: official base curb weight 1780 kg / 3924 lbs, gross weight GVWR 2300 kg / 5071 lbs. How fast is that car ? Performance: top speed 250 km/h (155 mph) electronically governed (declared by factory); accelerations 0- 60 mph 4.4 s, 0- 100 km/h 4.7 s (declared by factory), 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 12.1 s (a-c simulation). Fuel consumption and mileage: official: 14.4 l/100km / 19.6 mpg (imp.) / 16.3 mpg (U.S.) / 6.9 km/l , average estimated by a-c: 22.7 l/100km / 12.5 mpg (imp.) / 10.4 mpg (U.S.) / 4.4 km/l, average estimated combined driving range of this car is 310 km / 192 miles.

-----------------------------
E60 M5 3924 lbs 2010 Europe
compared to the F10 M5 for 2011 Europe (4122 lbs) for 2013 North America (4387 lbs)

Specs of BMW M5, manufactured or sold in 2011, version for Europe with 4-door sedan body type, RWD (rear-wheel drive) and dual-clutch semi-automatic 7-speed gearbox (with manual shift mode). Basic www.automobile-catalog.com specs and characteristics: petrol (gasoline) engine of 4395 cm3 / 267.9 cui displacement with advertised power 412 kW / 552 hp / 560 PS ( ECE ) / 7000 and 680 Nm / 501 lb-ft / 1500 of torque. Dimensions: this model outside length is 4910 mm / 193.3 in, it's 1891 mm / 74.4 in wide and has wheelbase of 2964 mm / 116.7 in. The officially claimed value of a drag coefficient Cd = 0.33 . Standard wheels were fitted with the tires size: (check standard and alternate tire sizes). Reference vehicle weights are: official base curb weight 1870 kg / 4122 lbs, gross weight GVWR 2410 kg / 5313 lbs. How fast is that car ? Performance: top speed 305 km/h (190 mph) electronically governed, with M Drivers Pkg. (declared by factory); accelerations 0- 60 mph 4.2 s, 0- 100 km/h 4.4 s (declared by factory), 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 12 s (a-c simulation). Fuel consumption and mileage: official: 9.9 l/100km / 28.5 mpg (imp.) / 23.7 mpg (U.S.) / 10.1 km/l , average estimated by a-c: 14.7 l/100km / 19.3 mpg (imp.) / 16 mpg (U.S.) / 6.8 km/l, average estimated combined driving range of this car is 546 km / 338 miles.

Data for BMW M5 Auto 7-Speed, model year 2013, version for North America with 4-door sedan body type, RWD (rear-wheel drive) and dual-clutch semi-automatic 7-speed gearbox (with manual shift mode). Basic www.automobile-catalog.com specs and characteristics: petrol (gasoline) engine of 4395 cm3 / 267.9 cui displacement with advertised power 417.5 kW / 560 hp / 568 PS ( ECE ) / 7000 and 678 Nm / 500 lb-ft / 1500 of torque. Dimensions: this model outside length is 4916 mm / 193.5 in, it's 1891 mm / 74.4 in wide and has wheelbase of 2964 mm / 116.7 in. The officially claimed value of a drag coefficient Cd = 0.33 . Standard wheels were fitted with the tires size: (check standard and alternate tire sizes). Reference vehicle weights are: official base curb weight 1990 kg / 4387 lbs, gross weight GVWR 2410 kg / 5313 lbs. How fast is that car ? Performance: top speed 250 km/h (155 mph) electronically governed (declared by factory); accelerations 0- 60 mph 4.3 s, 0- 100 km/h 4.4 s (declared by factory), 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 12.2 s (a-c simulation). Fuel consumption and mileage: official: , average estimated by a-c: 15.8 l/100km / 17.9 mpg (imp.) / 14.9 mpg (U.S.) / 6.4 km/l, average estimated combined driving range of this car is 508 km / 315 miles.

Last edited by bm323; 10-14-2012 at 07:06 PM.
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  #244  
Old 10-14-2012, 06:53 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
If you don't like that FACT the M5 gained wieght, it's not my fault.

BTW, your Autozine numbers are extremely low.

Autozine:
F10 550 - 1830kg (4026lb)
F10 M5 - 1870kg (4114lb))

E60 550 - 1660kg (3652lb)
E60 M5 -1755kg (3861lb)





Again, I have no issues with the M5 or on how the M5 drives since as I have previously posted in this thread I haven't driven one yet. I will give the M5 a fair and just evaluation when I get around to driving one, but frankly I would prefer driving an M6. That said, I am dissappointed in the press the car has received thus far. I'm just tired of fanbois putting out misleading info and attacking anyone who disagrees with their fantasies. If anyone who drives an M5 wouldn't think it would be a better performer if it weighed 300lbs less doesn't know anything about cars. Idiots indeed.
One can have the F10 M5 lighter - take less options, may well be 300 lbs lighter. And try not to be presumptuos, I'll take the F10 M5, and not the E60 M5 One can't say I want to buy the F10 M5 only if it is 300 lbs lighter, no such car exists - check the competition and buy what one wants. If weight is the main guiding factor, tons of lighter cars in the market eg M3.

The automobile website has also very light nos for the M5, depends on the measurement criteria in that country.

The reviews generally say that the F10 M5 is superior to the E60 M5 need't be disappointed a car mag can say that the E60 M5 and F10 M5 is inferior to the CTS, but I'm not buying the CTS cos the reviewer says it's better.
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  #245  
Old 10-14-2012, 08:18 PM
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dunderhi dunderhi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Good site, with the different years specs Below for the last year available and it doesn't appear that the E60 M5 was lighter than the E60 550i

Data for BMW 550i Steptronic, manufactured or sold in 2010, version for Europe with 4-door sedan body type, RWD (rear-wheel drive) and automatic 6-speed gearbox (with Steptronic manual shift mode). Basic www.automobile-catalog.com specs and characteristics: petrol (gasoline) engine of 4799 cm3 / 292.9 cui displacement with advertised power 270 kW / 362 hp / 367 PS ( ECE ) / 6300 and 490 Nm / 361 lb-ft / 3400 of torque. Dimensions: this model outside length is 4841 mm / 190.6 in, it's 1846 mm / 72.7 in wide and has wheelbase of 2888 mm / 113.7 in. The officially claimed value of a drag coefficient Cd = 0.27 . Standard wheels were fitted with the tires size: (check standard and alternate tire sizes). Reference vehicle weights are: official base curb weight 1660 kg / 3659 lbs, gross weight GVWR 2220 kg / 4894 lbs. How fast is that car ? Performance: top speed 250 km/h (155 mph) electronically governed (declared by factory); accelerations 0- 60 mph 5 s, 0- 100 km/h 5.3 s (declared by factory), 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 13.3 s (a-c simulation). Fuel consumption and mileage: official: 10.3 l/100km / 27.4 mpg (imp.) / 22.8 mpg (U.S.) / 9.7 km/l , average estimated by a-c: 19 l/100km / 15 mpg (imp.) / 12.4 mpg (U.S.) / 5.3 km/l, average estimated combined driving range of this car is 371 km / 230 miles.

Specs of BMW M5, manufactured or sold in 2010, version for Europe with 4-door sedan body type, RWD (rear-wheel drive) and semi-automatic 7-speed gearbox. Basic www.automobile-catalog.com specs and characteristics: petrol (gasoline) engine of 4999 cm3 / 304.6 cui displacement with advertised power 373 kW / 500 hp / 507 PS ( ECE ) / 7750 and 520 Nm / 383 lb-ft / 6100 of torque. Dimensions: this model outside length is 4855 mm / 191.1 in, it's 1846 mm / 72.7 in wide and has wheelbase of 2889 mm / 113.7 in. The officially claimed value of a drag coefficient Cd = 0.31 . Standard wheels were fitted with the tires size: (check standard and alternate tire sizes). Reference vehicle weights are: official base curb weight 1780 kg / 3924 lbs, gross weight GVWR 2300 kg / 5071 lbs. How fast is that car ? Performance: top speed 250 km/h (155 mph) electronically governed (declared by factory); accelerations 0- 60 mph 4.4 s, 0- 100 km/h 4.7 s (declared by factory), 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 12.1 s (a-c simulation). Fuel consumption and mileage: official: 14.4 l/100km / 19.6 mpg (imp.) / 16.3 mpg (U.S.) / 6.9 km/l , average estimated by a-c: 22.7 l/100km / 12.5 mpg (imp.) / 10.4 mpg (U.S.) / 4.4 km/l, average estimated combined driving range of this car is 310 km / 192 miles.

-----------------------------
E60 M5 3924 lbs 2010 Europe
compared to the F10 M5 for 2011 Europe (4122 lbs) for 2013 North America (4387 lbs)

Specs of BMW M5, manufactured or sold in 2011, version for Europe with 4-door sedan body type, RWD (rear-wheel drive) and dual-clutch semi-automatic 7-speed gearbox (with manual shift mode). Basic www.automobile-catalog.com specs and characteristics: petrol (gasoline) engine of 4395 cm3 / 267.9 cui displacement with advertised power 412 kW / 552 hp / 560 PS ( ECE ) / 7000 and 680 Nm / 501 lb-ft / 1500 of torque. Dimensions: this model outside length is 4910 mm / 193.3 in, it's 1891 mm / 74.4 in wide and has wheelbase of 2964 mm / 116.7 in. The officially claimed value of a drag coefficient Cd = 0.33 . Standard wheels were fitted with the tires size: (check standard and alternate tire sizes). Reference vehicle weights are: official base curb weight 1870 kg / 4122 lbs, gross weight GVWR 2410 kg / 5313 lbs. How fast is that car ? Performance: top speed 305 km/h (190 mph) electronically governed, with M Drivers Pkg. (declared by factory); accelerations 0- 60 mph 4.2 s, 0- 100 km/h 4.4 s (declared by factory), 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 12 s (a-c simulation). Fuel consumption and mileage: official: 9.9 l/100km / 28.5 mpg (imp.) / 23.7 mpg (U.S.) / 10.1 km/l , average estimated by a-c: 14.7 l/100km / 19.3 mpg (imp.) / 16 mpg (U.S.) / 6.8 km/l, average estimated combined driving range of this car is 546 km / 338 miles.

Data for BMW M5 Auto 7-Speed, model year 2013, version for North America with 4-door sedan body type, RWD (rear-wheel drive) and dual-clutch semi-automatic 7-speed gearbox (with manual shift mode). Basic www.automobile-catalog.com specs and characteristics: petrol (gasoline) engine of 4395 cm3 / 267.9 cui displacement with advertised power 417.5 kW / 560 hp / 568 PS ( ECE ) / 7000 and 678 Nm / 500 lb-ft / 1500 of torque. Dimensions: this model outside length is 4916 mm / 193.5 in, it's 1891 mm / 74.4 in wide and has wheelbase of 2964 mm / 116.7 in. The officially claimed value of a drag coefficient Cd = 0.33 . Standard wheels were fitted with the tires size: (check standard and alternate tire sizes). Reference vehicle weights are: official base curb weight 1990 kg / 4387 lbs, gross weight GVWR 2410 kg / 5313 lbs. How fast is that car ? Performance: top speed 250 km/h (155 mph) electronically governed (declared by factory); accelerations 0- 60 mph 4.3 s, 0- 100 km/h 4.4 s (declared by factory), 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 12.2 s (a-c simulation). Fuel consumption and mileage: official: , average estimated by a-c: 15.8 l/100km / 17.9 mpg (imp.) / 14.9 mpg (U.S.) / 6.4 km/l, average estimated combined driving range of this car is 508 km / 315 miles.
Good catch, I accidentally picked the European E60 M5, so the E60 M5 was actually 44lbs heavier than the 550i in North America. The F10 M5 is still 375lbs heavier than the E60 M5 in North America. The 550i gained even more weight relative to its predecessor, so the M5 is not alone - we are all feeling it. The corrected weights for the North American fivers with automatic/SMG are as follows:

F10 550 - 1985kg (4376lb)
F10 M5 - 1990kg (4387lb))

E60 550 - 1800kg (3968lb)
E60 M5 -1820kg (4012lb)

Specs of BMW 550i Steptronic, model year 2013, version for North America U.S. with 4-door sedan body type, RWD (rear-wheel drive) and automatic 8-speed gearbox (with Steptronic manual shift mode). Basic www.automobile-catalog.com specs and characteristics: petrol (gasoline) engine of 4395 cm3 / 267.9 cui displacement with advertised power 298 kW / 400 hp / 405 PS ( SAE net ) / 6400 and 610 Nm / 450 lb-ft / 1750 of torque. Dimensions: this model outside length is 4905 mm / 193.1 in, itís 1860 mm / 73.2 in wide and has wheelbase of 2968 mm / 116.9 in. The officially claimed value of a drag coefficient Cd = 0.3 . Standard wheels were fitted with the tires size: (check standard and alternate tire sizes). Reference vehicle weights are: official base curb weight 1985 kg / 4376 lbs, gross weight GVWR 2460 kg / 5423 lbs. How fast is that car ? Performance: top speed 210 km/h (131 mph) electronically governed (declared by factory); accelerations 0- 60 mph 5 s, 0- 100 km/h 5.2 s (declared by factory), 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 12.9 s (a-c simulation). Fuel consumption and mileage: official: 17/25 mpg (U.S.), 13.8/9.4 l/100km, 20.4/30 mpg (imp.), 7.2/10.6 km/l EPA ratings, average estimated by a-c: 16.2 l/100km / 17.5 mpg (imp.) / 14.5 mpg (U.S.) / 6.2 km/l, average estimated combined driving range of this car is 433 km / 269 miles

Data for BMW M5 Auto 7-Speed, model year 2013, version for North America with 4-door sedan body type, RWD (rear-wheel drive) and dual-clutch semi-automatic 7-speed gearbox (with manual shift mode). Basic www.automobile-catalog.com specs and characteristics: petrol (gasoline) engine of 4395 cm3 / 267.9 cui displacement with advertised power 417.5 kW / 560 hp / 568 PS ( ECE ) / 7000 and 678 Nm / 500 lb-ft / 1500 of torque. Dimensions: this model outside length is 4916 mm / 193.5 in, itís 1891 mm / 74.4 in wide and has wheelbase of 2964 mm / 116.7 in. The officially claimed value of a drag coefficient Cd = 0.33 . Standard wheels were fitted with the tires size: (check standard and alternate tire sizes). Reference vehicle weights are: official base curb weight 1990 kg / 4387 lbs, gross weight GVWR 2410 kg / 5313 lbs. How fast is that car ? Performance: top speed 250 km/h (155 mph) electronically governed (declared by factory); accelerations 0- 60 mph 4.3 s, 0- 100 km/h 4.4 s (declared by factory), 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 12.2 s (a-c simulation). Fuel consumption and mileage: official: 14/20 mpg (U.S.), average estimated by a-c: 15.8 l/100km / 17.9 mpg (imp.) / 14.9 mpg (U.S.) / 6.4 km/l, average estimated combined driving range of this car is 508 km / 315 miles

Data for BMW 550i Steptronic, model year 2010, version for North America U.S. with 4-door sedan body type, RWD (rear-wheel drive) and automatic 6-speed gearbox (with Steptronic manual shift mode). Basic www.automobile-catalog.com specs and characteristics: petrol (gasoline) engine of 4799 cm3 / 292.9 cui displacement with advertised power 268.5 kW / 360 hp / 365 PS ( SAE net ) / 6300 and 488 Nm / 360 lb-ft / 3400 of torque. Dimensions: this model outside length is 4854 mm / 191.1 in, itís 1846 mm / 72.7 in wide and has wheelbase of 2888 mm / 113.7 in. The officially claimed value of a drag coefficient Cd = 0.29 . Standard wheels were fitted with the tires size: (check standard and alternate tire sizes). Reference vehicle weights are: official base curb weight 1800 kg / 3968 lbs, gross weight GVWR 2300 kg / 5071 lbs. How fast is that car ? Performance: top speed 241 km/h (150 mph) (declared by factory); accelerations 0- 60 mph 5.5 s, 0- 100 km/h 5.7 s (declared by factory), 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 13.6 s (a-c simulation). Fuel consumption and mileage: official: 15/23 mpg (U.S.), 15.7/10.2 l/100km, 18/27.6 mpg (imp.), 6.4/9.8 km/l EPA ratings, average estimated by a-c: 19.2 l/100km / 14.8 mpg (imp.) / 12.3 mpg (U.S.) / 5.2 km/l, average estimated combined driving range of this car is 366 km / 227 miles.


Data for BMW M5 SMG, model year 2010, version for North America U.S. with 4-door sedan body type, RWD (rear-wheel drive) and semi-automatic 7-speed gearbox. Basic www.automobile-catalog.com specs and characteristics: petrol (gasoline) engine of 4999 cm3 / 304.6 cui displacement with advertised power 373 kW / 500 hp / 507 PS ( SAE net ) / 7750 and 520 Nm / 383 lb-ft / 6100 of torque. Dimensions: this model outside length is 4863 mm / 191.5 in, itís 1846 mm / 72.7 in wide and has wheelbase of 2889 mm / 113.7 in. The officially claimed value of a drag coefficient Cd = 0.31 . Standard wheels were fitted with the tires size: (check standard and alternate tire sizes). Reference vehicle weights are: official base curb weight 1820 kg / 4012 lbs, gross weight GVWR 2300 kg / 5071 lbs. How fast is that car ? Performance: top speed 250 km/h (155 mph) electronically governed (declared by factory); accelerations 0- 60 mph 4.5 s, 0- 100 km/h 4.7 s (declared by factory), 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 12.2 s (a-c simulation). Fuel consumption and mileage: official: 11/17 mpg (U.S.), 21.4/13.8 l/100km, 13.2/20.4 mpg (imp.), 4.7/7.2 km/l EPA ratings, average estimated by a-c: 22.8 l/100km / 12.4 mpg (imp.) / 10.4 mpg (U.S.) / 4.4 km/l, average estimated combined driving range of this car is 308 km / 191 miles
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  #246  
Old 10-14-2012, 09:00 PM
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dunderhi dunderhi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
The reviews generally say that the F10 M5 is superior to the E60 M5 need't be disappointed a car mag can say that the E60 M5 and F10 M5 is inferior to the CTS, but I'm not buying the CTS cos the reviewer says it's better.
I'm not buying a CTS-V either, but I'm not accusing the Car Mags of being unqualified or idiots for picking a car they tested and found to be the better car in their view.
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  #247  
Old 10-15-2012, 12:16 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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So here's how I read it:

F10 M5 has more power, way more torque. Weighs a bit more. Ultimately very capable. Has gained a ton of usability vs. the E60. Has lost a bit of rawness and edge. Has become a bit more isolated but is likely more capable.

Now, some guys like brunettes, some like blonds, some like the firebush. Some guys like shy and reserved, some guys like revealing and promiscuous. Some guys like demure, some guys like the whips and chains. Some guys drink beer, some wine (whine?), some like the hard stuff. In the end, we all get up and put our pants on in the morning, do whatever, and go to sleep at night.

The new M5 is different. Whether that's better or worse depends on which way you put on your pants in the morning, I guess.

[ends summary of last 10 pages]
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Last edited by Needsdecaf; 10-15-2012 at 12:17 PM.
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