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  #76  
Old 07-04-2004, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Baumann
I don't know. If they didn't, why ?
And if they did, why was it ignored?

Bottom line, it doesn't matter. It's the job of the stewards to monitor the race.
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  #77  
Old 07-04-2004, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Baumann
And hat off to Ferrari and his team for tricking and cheating the whole world in front of the cameras. Gotta respect that.
I don't, actually.
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  #78  
Old 07-04-2004, 01:55 PM
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WAM WAM is offline
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Wow, what a job by Ferrari!

If Renault get a more powerful engine, everybody better look out. I thought Alonso did a great job hanging on in the lead for 2 stops.

Did you guys see that super slo mo shot of Alonso with 2 wheels in the air, 6-8" at the last chicane?

Great pass by Rubens, although I don't know exactly how he got past Trulli.

How does Sato manage to blow up his engine?

BMW and McLaren did an ok job, nothing special.
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  #79  
Old 07-04-2004, 02:07 PM
Mr Paddle.Shift Mr Paddle.Shift is offline
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All I am trying to say is: Rules are rules.

I support all teams with car manufacturers that have mass produced regular vehicles for the regular joe and jane, eg BMW, Honda, Renault, Toyota, MB. But there are times I condemn their mistakes.

1. When Williams broke the rules with 30mm longer brake ducts, and I said that was a stupid mistake. Could have been avoided. Sam deserves some good spankings from the entire team. Same goes with Toyota.

2. When Monty ran as fast as he could back to the garage and still 2 seconds short, I said rules are rules.

3. When FW26 debut earlier this year with a big nose, I said while it's a theoretically sound design, there are still tweakings needed for real-life testing. They should have kept FW25 to be competitive.

4. When Monty knocked out Ralfie at the Euro Grand Prix on the first turn, I said it was Monty's fault. He's stupid.

5. Finally, I don't think it's right for Monty to throw *colorful* languages at his team mates today, when he spun out.

No one knows for sure whether complaints have been filed against Ferrari. The lack of online press coverage on that incident does not mean anything. I read a magazine reported Ferrari filed a complaint against BAR for having a flexible wing during high speed maneuver and that it might explain why BAR is doing so well suddenly. FIA rejected this claim. BAR refuted that if Ferrari engineers had thought of such a cheat, they must have tried it as well. Guess what? Nothing mentioned on itv-f1.com or planetf1.com.

I am exhausted from typing. This discussion pointless anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Baumann
What are you trying to tell us, Vince ?
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  #80  
Old 07-04-2004, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by WAM
Did you guys see that super slo mo shot of Alonso with 2 wheels in the air, 6-8" at the last chicane?
Astonishing. The car was at quite an angle.

I think Trulli backed off a smidge just before the start-finish. Bad Trulli. No podium.
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  #81  
Old 07-04-2004, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Baumann
I have no problem with it

And hat off to Ferrari and his team for tricking and cheating the whole world in front of the cameras. Gotta respect that.
You are a true, fair weather, Formula One fan ... L M A O.

Hats off to you FANS.




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  #82  
Old 07-04-2004, 02:25 PM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick 520iAT
You are a true, fair weather, Formula One fan ... L M A O.

Hats off to you FANS.




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Nope, I'm an all-weather fan. I was a Ferrari fan too, when their engines were exploding like fireworks almost in every race.
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  #83  
Old 07-04-2004, 03:26 PM
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Oh yeah, I'd almost forgotten about the starting incident. The big picture story is that it isn't a big deal, and that MS's parade lap "YOU CAN NOT PASS" gesture should have been penalized, but that it didn't really threaten the outcome of the race.

HOWEVER....brake ducts that didn't improve performance but were deemed improper, spending a smidgen too long on the grid due to a nonstarting car, and other various little technical fouls have cost other teams some points. In fact, Williams has lost a lot of points that way, and while the teams have to shoulder a lot of the blame, you also have to wonder why no one officially said anything about Schumi's move.

Ah, well. The officiating might be offensive, but I still can't discount Ferrari's team effort and MS's dominance in the sport. He could take a golf cart out there and end the race with some points. I mean, even if his first move is to swipe across the track to make everyone else crash at turn 1.
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  #84  
Old 07-04-2004, 03:26 PM
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That is really so nice to hear. Congrats to you for being able to hang in there through those amazingly tough times.

As a FERRARI fan since those exploding engine days, surely you have some non-sarcastic and honest opinions and/or comments as per my previous post. In case you have forgotten about that specific post, here it is again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by :yawn:
But I do wonder how you can watch the same stuff as the rest of the world and yet never see any fault in your favorite team's #1 driver. And or never be willing to even mention any of these serious transgressions that have littered his career. Do you have even 1 comment about that? If so, I would love to hear it.
Do I need to produce a list for you? Since you are a true, all weather FERRARI fan, I am truly interested to hear your take on the ways that your favorite driver has pulled off some of these wins in the midst of a massive controversy. I mean that he really does seem to get away with anything.

Or then is it so that honestly you don't care as long as he wins?

Lastly (all sarcastic drivel aside), do you honestly think that your favorite team's #1 driver has the same set of rules that all other 19 drivers have to play by?


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  #85  
Old 07-04-2004, 04:01 PM
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WILLIA///M WILLIA///M is offline
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MS has pulled the stunt of passing the pole sitter on the parade lap before. It's part of his schtick and I suppose the thinking is that it psyches the other driver. I can remember him doing it to Damon Hill. I'm sure there are others. Raikkonen did it to Ralf once too. The stewards seem to just let it go. Some rules are rules, others aren't.
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  #86  
Old 07-05-2004, 11:47 AM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick 520iAT
That is really so nice to hear. Congrats to you for being able to hang in there through those amazingly tough times.

As a FERRARI fan since those exploding engine days, surely you have some non-sarcastic and honest opinions and/or comments as per my previous post. In case you have forgotten about that specific post, here it is again:



Do I need to produce a list for you? Since you are a true, all weather FERRARI fan, I am truly interested to hear your take on the ways that your favorite driver has pulled off some of these wins in the midst of a massive controversy. I mean that he really does seem to get away with anything.

Or then is it so that honestly you don't care as long as he wins?

Lastly (all sarcastic drivel aside), do you honestly think that your favorite team's #1 driver has the same set of rules that all other 19 drivers have to play by?


-

This is something we can never agree on. I think we have to agree to disagree.

I'll give you my honest repsonse and I guarantee everyone on this board that this will be my last post about Michael Schumacher's attitude and his qualities as a race driver.

Yes, Michael Schumacher is one of the ruthless drivers that the tracks have ever seen. Adelaide 1994 and Jerez 1997 are two examples of a ruthless and win at any cost mentality. He admitted his fault, he was disqualified, but I can't remember him ever apologizing for it. This is exactly how Senna used to be. He (Senna) believed that had a god given 'right' to win. At a race weekend, among those 22 drivers, his eyes were fixed at his archrival Alan Prost and noone else. He was the man to beat and this ultimate and holy mission was to be accomplished at any cost. (If you ever get the chance to watch Senna's DVD, you'd know what I mean)

Both these guys have the same competitive spirit, whether it's right or wrong, I don't care. That is how I like them. But this puts them apart from the rest of the field. Sometimes JPM is reminding me of Senna sometimes with his brave moves, sticking his 'nose' into corners without hesitation. In my opinion this is real racing (this is just MY opinion, I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me and I can live with it)

Another thing that I like about him is his stamina. He's 35 and still strong on the track, still the same ambition enjoying every win, showing no intention to back off, where his opponents have already quit or changed career. This sets him apart from the others, IMO.

He is the luckiest bastard you can ever encounter in this world. He spins, goes off track and manages to go back, where others deal with blown tires, broken nose, broken suspension etc. I haven't forgotten the race where his gear was stuck in the 5th many laps before the end. He finished second. He's a lucky dog, but is this something we can change ?

He built Ferrari. This team is a Ferrari + Schumacher joint venture. Without Schumacher Ferrari hadn't the slightest chance to win a race, let alone build a competitive car. Michael knows his sh-it. After Alain Prost, he is the best set-up driver that the paddocks has ever seen. Period.

His foul actions goes often unpunished, FIA says it's legal, noone raises an objection, or raises an objection, but the outcome is fruitless. He goes away with it. Should he have been punished for his actions ? Yes, he should have been. But it didn't happen. So, you are expecting me to hate Ferrari, because FIA isn't doing his job, the governing body, who is supposed to see to it that the rules apply for every team on the track ?

I agree and accept the fact that there is a Ferrari favoritism in the F1. But don't ask me why, I don't have the answer. Maybe it has to do with the fact that they are the oldest team in the series. There is always something about special about Ferrari. Whereever the red car appears, it draws attention.

The only way to beat them on the track is to build a car that is more reliable, faster than Ferrari. More importantly, if they want to beat Ferrari, you need a faster driver than Michael.
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  #87  
Old 07-05-2004, 01:01 PM
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Alex, well said. Michael's not my favorite, but he sure is good as you've stated. I've also got the Senna DVD and remember him well, also ruthless. Do you remember when Senna couldn't keep the agreement he had with Prost to not pass which ever of them got to turn 1 first? Senna eventually passed Prost went on to win and just couldn't talk about it after the race. Somehow this "right to win" was always there. I don't think Michael has that same mystical thing that Senna had, but he's got amazing luck. As to this favoratism thing, it does seem there. JPM's a little different, he seems to be saying if you are in front of me and I can challenge you I will. And that's why I like him so much also.
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  #88  
Old 07-05-2004, 05:15 PM
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The Roadstergal The Roadstergal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetfire
Oh yeah, I'd almost forgotten about the starting incident. The big picture story is that it isn't a big deal, and that MS's parade lap "YOU CAN NOT PASS" gesture should have been penalized, but that it didn't really threaten the outcome of the race.
Montoya's two-second-too-long exit from his nonrunning car wasn't a big deal, and didn't threaten the outcome of the race - hurt him, if anything.

But it was a rule - period - and rules is rules. Unless you're Ferrari.
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  #89  
Old 07-05-2004, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Roadstergal
Montoya's two-second-too-long exit from his nonrunning car wasn't a big deal, and didn't threaten the outcome of the race - hurt him, if anything.

But it was a rule - period - and rules is rules. Unless you're Ferrari.


Montoya's DQ was on the slimest of technicalities, one that it took the MORON Indy stewards 50+ laps to decipher.

Yet a rule seemingly as arcane was ignored in France.

F1's true problem is a lack of consistency. They need a full-time set of stewards that travel race-to-race and enforce the rules the same way. Why Mosely has fought this, I do not know. But it makes no freakin' sense.

If you're going to have a rule book, enforce them the same for everyone, all the time.
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  #90  
Old 07-06-2004, 11:00 AM
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Football refs and baseball umps are routinely lambasted for being inconsistent, but one can argue that getting black flagged in one of 18 races is a bit more significant than losing a few yards or getting called out on a ball. I'm very understanding of human error, but I'd have to agree that there's some partiality going on with the stewards. It's pretty obvious. Then again, people used to say that Jordan was untouchable and was barely called out for fouls or other things that would've gotten a rookie sent straight to the bench.

Either way, none of this really overshadows the fact that MS and Ferrari are an unbelievable combination. All of the officiating in the world can't obfuscate that fact, not after this season.
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  #91  
Old 07-06-2004, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Baumann
This is something we can never agree on. I think we have to agree to disagree.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply - you have made some very valid points.

I will try to limit my foaming at the mouth about MSchumacher/Ferrari in Formula One to www.antischumacher.cjb.net instead!

I hope that there are no hard feelings ...


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  #92  
Old 07-06-2004, 12:15 PM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick 520iAT
I hope that there are no hard feelings ...


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Nope
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  #93  
Old 07-07-2004, 04:55 PM
Bag's330Ci Bag's330Ci is offline
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WRT Schumy and the pass on the parade lap - I seem to remember the same thing happening at Silverstone in 94 and it got him disqualified in the end (due to ignoring the black flag). That whole episode was pretty harsh - The FIA lording over all parties involved with senseless suspensions and fines. What a mess that was...

Even so, if the 10-second stop-n-go or drive-through penalties mentioned previously would have been given to him in France, he still would've won. He would've found enough speed to make up the difference.

Say what you will about him, the guy can DRIVE.
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