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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #251  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:17 PM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Then why do you waste so much time in this forum always talking about why you dislike the new 3 series? Is the F10 forum not active enough for you?
If you have actually read my posts, you will realized that I never said I didnt like the F30. All I said was the F30 is soft, the steering is light and its doesnt feel as sporty as the E90. All the things I am looking for in a daily driver. I would have bought one myself but I didnt want two 3 series in the driveway.
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  #252  
Old 10-11-2012, 05:19 PM
ND40oz ND40oz is offline
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
Is this the Edmond/Insideline "underrated N20 dyno" that you all are talking about?

N20 did 240 @ 5,250rpm & 257 lb-ft @ 4,450 rpm ( video clip 1:20 mark) ;

Hyundai 2.0 T rated 279 hp/ 262 lb-ft.

Pretty surreal & Humbling huh?


Why did you post a video of the Hyundai Coupe 3.8 and then claim it was the 2.0T?
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  #253  
Old 10-11-2012, 05:30 PM
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Why did you post a video of the Hyundai Coupe 3.8 and then claim it was the 2.0T?
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  #254  
Old 10-11-2012, 05:35 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Every model going thru refresh or LCI. the A4 is no exception, a new transmission or a new engine doesnt make it a new design.
You said the A4 was a 6 year old design vs the brand new F30. I responded that the new transmission was a significant change. I did not say anything remotely like it's a new design.
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  #255  
Old 10-11-2012, 06:10 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
Why did you post a video of the Hyundai Coupe 3.8 and then claim it was the 2.0T?
**** I just saw it said 2010.

2010 had a lower output 306hp v6 and the 210hp 2.0t.

So super irrelevant to this thread.

But I am the one who should have been humbled. Lol
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  #256  
Old 10-11-2012, 06:34 PM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
Why did you post a video of the Hyundai Coupe 3.8 and then claim it was the 2.0T?
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
**** I just saw it said 2010.

2010 had a lower output 306hp v6 and the 210hp 2.0t.

So super irrelevant to this thread.

But I am the one who should have been humbled. Lol
Hey all, I need to be humbled. Please accept my apology as I saw both Genesis dynos from Insideline with one says 364 hp & 342 ft-lb ( video below) & I assume 276 hp is the 2.0T. I goofed. I owe you all beer when you are down in TX .

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  #257  
Old 10-11-2012, 06:36 PM
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Hey all, I need to be humbled. Please accept my apology as I saw both Genesis dynos from Insideline with one says 364 hp & 342 ft-lb ( video below) & I assume 276 hp is the 2.0T. I goofed. I owe you all beer when you are down in TX .

How's the weather in texas?
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  #258  
Old 10-11-2012, 06:53 PM
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How's the weather in texas?
It's great from now till March. When are you picking up M 335i?
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  #259  
Old 10-11-2012, 07:02 PM
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Kilgore Trout Kilgore Trout is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
There's a tendency in this thread to use HP alone when comparing engines. The Hyundai 2.0T engine is nicely powerful but as Car and Driver says, has the aural pleasure of a hair dryer. While the N20 has issues at idle, reviews say it sounds great revving to the redline and pulls strongly all the way. It's a more refined engine than all the competitors at this point in time.

Lots of kudo's to Hyundai who has come a long way. They are doing well competing in teh Accord, Camry class of cars but are not yet building a car for enthusiasts except possibly the Genesis Coupe.
Just shows how much car tech has advanced. I think the new BMW turbo 4 is just an amazing engine. Decent MPG, fantastic power delivery across the full range, revs quick and hard. Its such a nice engine, and so much fun to drive, that I would think it would be without peer, but other companies can now play with BMW. Its a good time to be a car guy.
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  #260  
Old 10-11-2012, 07:03 PM
ND40oz ND40oz is offline
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
Hey all, I need to be humbled. Please accept my apology as I saw both Genesis dynos from Insideline with one says 364 hp & 342 ft-lb ( video below) & I assume 276 hp is the 2.0T. I goofed. I owe you all beer when you are down in TX .

There's the Genesis and the Genesis Coupe, two completely different vehicles, the Coupe is available with the 2.0T and the 3.8 V6. The 4 door Genesis is available with the 3.8 V6 and the 5.0 V8. The one you just posted is from the 5.0 V8 which is rated from Hyundai at 429 HP.
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  #261  
Old 10-11-2012, 07:09 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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And both coupe engines are updated for'13. The 2.0t for'13 is probably 240-245whp
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  #262  
Old 10-11-2012, 07:10 PM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
There's the Genesis and the Genesis Coupe, two completely different vehicles, the Coupe is available with the 2.0T and the 3.8 V6. The 4 door Genesis is available with the 3.8 V6 and the 5.0 V8. The one you just posted is from the 5.0 V8 which is rated from Hyundai at 429 HP.
I know. I goofed earlier today. At least we all know N20 is not as underrated as others had claimed. Drinks on me.

Last edited by bayoucity; 10-11-2012 at 07:14 PM.
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  #263  
Old 10-11-2012, 07:20 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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I know. I goofed earlier today. At least we all know N20 is not as underrated as others had claimed. Drinks on me.
Thats what you get from this?

230-250whp is pretty underrated when claimed 240 crank.
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  #264  
Old 10-11-2012, 07:30 PM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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Thats what you get from this?

230-250whp is pretty underrated when claimed 240 crank.
I will say N20 is pretty close to BMW's own claim - 240 hp.

Last edited by bayoucity; 10-11-2012 at 07:32 PM.
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  #265  
Old 10-11-2012, 07:37 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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I will says N20 is pretty close to BMW's own claim - 240 hp.
Maybe you do not have experience with dynos.

I do.

240 at the crank would yield 200-210whp. The n20 with 240-250whp indicates it is underrated by 10-15% which is quite substantial. I have not seen modern examples underrated by much more with other engines.
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  #266  
Old 10-11-2012, 08:52 PM
JohnnyO JohnnyO is offline
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Thanks, Voip-Ninja for your thoughtful note. May all your MOS score be 4 or better.

I'm currently driving a 2008 335ix with 70,000 miles. In the spring, I plan to pass that car to my wife, and move to an F30 328i with XDrive. Previous to the e90, I had two A4s (1997, and 2002, which my wife is currently driving), so reading your notes has been very useful.

My one test drive of the F30 confirms that it really feels pretty darn good. Not quite the rumble of the 335, but I can get past that.

John
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  #267  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:16 PM
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voip-ninja voip-ninja is offline
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Thanks, Voip-Ninja for your thoughtful note. May all your MOS score be 4 or better.

I'm currently driving a 2008 335ix with 70,000 miles. In the spring, I plan to pass that car to my wife, and move to an F30 328i with XDrive. Previous to the e90, I had two A4s (1997, and 2002, which my wife is currently driving), so reading your notes has been very useful.

My one test drive of the F30 confirms that it really feels pretty darn good. Not quite the rumble of the 335, but I can get past that.

John
Good luck. There was a little bit of adjustment coming from my A4, but honestly, now, there's no way I would go back. The F30 is just a pleasure to drive. Get the adaptive suspension to go with your x-drive!
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  #268  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
Power is even across the curve while the 2.0T falls flat on it's face in the mid to upper range.
No, torque is even across the curve, at about 260lb-ft for both. The difference is that it starts falling off earlier for the Audi at around 4,200rpm, whereas the BMW keeps it up until about 4,800rpm, leading to the nearly exact ratio of:

(4800/4200) * 211Hp = 241Hp (damn close to the 240HP rating)

So the difference is that you can stay in lower gears and rev up the engine to higher rpmsw with the BMW. The rest of the difference is due to the weight of the A4 and AWD. The vast majority of drivers will only experience the later, not the higher rpms.
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  #269  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:44 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Audi choose to detune the 2.0T engine for better refinement.
I don't know about detuning, but it does have counter-rotating balance shaft for smoothness. But I suspect the BMW 2.0T has them too.
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  #270  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:51 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Yes, they both made the list, however for 2011 the N20 was added to the list and the Audi/VW 2.0T was dropped from the list if I remember correctly. That should tell you something.
I think Audi's E888 has been off the list for a couple of years now.
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  #271  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:57 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Your inability to read is sad.

That 2012 A5 has the same engine as the A4. look at the date. Once again, this is not difficult, try and keep up.
The first curve looks like for the new 2.0T. The second is definitely not. Look at the peak torque RPM. It should be around 4,200rpm, and only the first curve shows that.
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  #272  
Old 10-11-2012, 10:00 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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You expect a car with all season tires to perform as well as a car with summer performance tires?

Wow, some people on this site are clueless.
If you are referring to the car and driver comparison, their pictures shows a four-spoke steering for the A4, which means standard suspension and all-season tires.

PS: I found the tire they listed and it is indeed a summer tire. Strange, as the pictures show a 4-spoke steering.

Last edited by bmw_or_audi; 10-11-2012 at 10:06 PM.
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  #273  
Old 10-11-2012, 10:03 PM
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If you are referring to the car and driver comparison, their pictures shows a four-spoke steering for the A4, which means standard suspension and all-season tires.
read the test data. Clearly states its wearing the Summer performance version of the P7's
audi on th eleft, bmw on the right.
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Last edited by justinnum1; 10-11-2012 at 10:09 PM.
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  #274  
Old 10-11-2012, 10:12 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
read the test data. Clearly states its wearing the Summer performance version of the P7's
audi on th eleft, bmw on the right.
Attachment 345301
Yes, yes, I have already found that and corrected my post. But I am surprised it has summer tires since it doesn't seem to have the sport package (standard 4-spoke wheel), unless the picture they show is not that of the actual car tested.

Last edited by bmw_or_audi; 10-11-2012 at 10:15 PM.
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  #275  
Old 10-11-2012, 10:24 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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No, torque is even across the curve, at about 260lb-ft for both. The difference is that it starts falling off earlier for the Audi at around 4,200rpm, whereas the BMW keeps it up until about 4,800rpm, leading to the nearly exact ratio of:

(4800/4200) * 211Hp = 241Hp (damn close to the 240HP rating)
Based on these characteristics, the 328i should be incredibly fun and awesome with a manual transmission! It's a more rev happy engine than the A4's and that's what gives it an edge.

I don't know if the difference is due to higher boost, a bigger turbo, or more advanced valve control, or a combination of various factors. But it is interesting how they are nearly identical until about 4,200rpm, but beyond that the 328i surges ahead.
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