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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #76  
Old 10-10-2012, 06:00 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
The consensus seemed to me that if you were going to drive a lot on city roads, the E9x was best bought without the sport package.
Even without the sports suspension the E90, at least my 330xi, had harsh suspension. I experienced the suspension "crash" more often than I would have preferred. And, I suspect, cracked a wheel because of it.
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  #77  
Old 10-10-2012, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
You very well might be right. My older A4 was also more of a "sport" sedan than luxury sedan and the F30 is still more enjoyable to drive, even on very challenging roads.
You are coming from an Audi, much like myself, thats why you enjoy the lighter steering. The sport line's steering feels a bit tighter than the other two line and the no line. Even for an ex-Audi guy like myself, those other line's steering is too light in comfort mode. Sure one can pit it in sport mode, but they would have to put up with the jerky accelaration and poor gas mileage that goes with it.
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  #78  
Old 10-10-2012, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by shabadoo25 View Post
Oh, boy. You are opening a can of worms. To some boy racer types, that very firm steering is why you buy a BMW.

Otherwise, I agree with you. Trying to drive an E90 over rough terrain was positively teeth rattling. The F30 is a "better for all occasions" BMW, though the E90 might trump it in one or two. Not the cupholders, though.

Find steering not overly firm....? You're right - wouldn't want less effort.

And remember:
If yer teeth don' rattle
you losin' the battle
Then again I run Yellows. But, hey, grips good. Awaiting M4.
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  #79  
Old 10-10-2012, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
I bet BMW bean counters have been steaming red for a long time watching lots of people buy Lexus & Co. I personally know many people who have expressed dislike for their German luxury car and hoped onto softer riding Lexus models. I even know people who have said "I don't want to feel the road," I want to be shielded from it.
What does that have to do with me? I've owned nothing but fairly sport sedans and coupes over the past 20 years.
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  #80  
Old 10-10-2012, 06:52 AM
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Daedalus34r Daedalus34r is offline
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
The comments about heavy steering in the E90 are leaving me scratching my head. I never found the steering in my 2007 35i to be heavy and neither did my wife and we both frequently drive other cars.
This. Why are we praising limp steering? Sounds like people want a Lexus but with a BMW badge so they can still be in the club. I can turn the E46/E90 steering with my pinky and im not even that strong. Should used E90s be sold with a gym membership instead of a CPO warranty? LOL
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  #81  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Daedalus34r View Post
This. Why are we praising limp steering? Sounds like people want a Lexus but with a BMW badge so they can still be in the club. I can turn the E46/E90 steering with my pinky and im not even that strong. Should used E90s be sold with a gym membership instead of a CPO warranty? LOL
1. I don't want to be in any "club". I don't care what badge is on the car as long as it isn't KIA or Hyundai.

2. I test drove everything in the segment at least twice before deciding on the F30 as a replacement for my aging B7, which by the way, was considered the last A4 with "good handling and firm steering".

3. I test drove on the most challenging kinds of roads that I will typically ever drive on which consists of lots of switchbacks on public roads... roads where I might be inclined to bend the rules a bit, but still won't push the car anywhere near the limits, not only for my own safety but for that of others.

As to driving the E90 with a pinky... well, good luck with that.
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  #82  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:07 AM
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I'm on my 2nd day with the E90, time for a 2nd 75 mile round trip drive to Westminster on a combination of suburban streets and highway. Wish me luck. My F30 should be detailed and ready for pick-up later this morning or early this afternoon... it sucks that the cupholder is on national backorder.
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  #83  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:13 AM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus34r View Post
This. Why are we praising limp steering? Sounds like people want a Lexus but with a BMW badge so they can still be in the club. I can turn the E46/E90 steering with my pinky and im not even that strong. Should used E90s be sold with a gym membership instead of a CPO warranty? LOL
Out of respect for the members of this new car forum, we request that you please turn off your signature showing an old, used car.

Thank you.

BJ
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  #84  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
I'm on my 2nd day with the E90, time for a 2nd 75 mile round trip drive to Westminster on a combination of suburban streets and highway. Wish me luck. My F30 should be detailed and ready for pick-up later this morning or early this afternoon... it sucks that the cupholder is on national backorder.
Remember, your SA should have placed some Advil, a pulley, and a lumbar cushion in the trunk for just this type of unfortunate situation.

I just can't believe that BMW would put you through this humiliation.

BJ
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  #85  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Remember, your SA should have placed some Advil, a pulley, and a lumbar cushion in the trunk for just this type of unfortunate situation.

I just can't believe that BMW would put you through this humiliation.

BJ
I'm getting a re-detail for free, a free tank of premium, a loaner for two days, 1/2 off on getting the windows tinted (new pics soon!) so.... I can live with my squeaky cupholder for another couple of weeks.

Hopefully once the new one shows up they will have me in and out of there pronto.
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  #86  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:22 AM
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Comments in another thread reminded me of something else in this comparison.

The E90 stereo system (at least the base one) is simply terrible compared to the one in the F30. Now I know that most E90 fans could care less about how the stereo sounds since they have it turned off to listen to the music that the wonderful I6 engine makes, but for those of us who do long boring drives the sound system quality is of paramount importance.
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  #87  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:24 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
1. I don't want to be in any "club". I don't care what badge is on the car as long as it isn't KIA or Hyundai.

2. I test drove everything in the segment at least twice before deciding on the F30 as a replacement for my aging B7, which by the way, was considered the last A4 with "good handling and firm steering".

3. I test drove on the most challenging kinds of roads that I will typically ever drive on which consists of lots of switchbacks on public roads... roads where I might be inclined to bend the rules a bit, but still won't push the car anywhere near the limits, not only for my own safety but for that of others.

As to driving the E90 with a pinky... well, good luck with that.
The responses you've received from owners of older generation BMWs is to be expected. It happens every time a new generation is introduced. Those with the older generations defend it as the best generation and the new as lacking in comparison. It happened with the E36 -> E46 transition. The E46 to -> E9x transition. And now with the E9x to F3x transition.
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  #88  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:26 AM
Spagolli94 Spagolli94 is offline
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Keep in mind your F30 probably cost $10K+ more than the E90. Also, keep in mind that you are comparing a loaded sport package F30 with dynamic suspension to a strip down E90. The F30 is a nicer car than the E90 in some areas, but rather if the F30 is worth the additional premium, that is for one to decide.
Agree. Back when I had my 2006 330i, it was loaded. Every option available. Adaptive steering, dynamic cruise, all packages, Logic audio, sport, cold weather, you name it. It was my favorite color and had beautiful saddle brown seats, etc.

Anyway, whenever I got a loaner, it always felt like a turd, even though they were both E90s! It was like they were totally separate cars. The loaner had crappy non-sport seats, no seat heaters, ugly color interior, boring slush box, etc. It always felt like a huge downgrade, even though it was technically the same model.

Sure, some of the improvement you're noticing is the jump from E90 to F30. But a lot of the improvements might have to do with the fact your car has nice options, compared to the stripped-down loaner.
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  #89  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
The responses you've received from owners of older generation BMWs is to be expected. It happens every time a new generation is introduced. Those with the older generations defend it as the best generation and the new as lacking in comparison. It happened with the E36 -> E46 transition. The E46 to -> E9x transition. And now with the E9x to F3x transition.
Sure, and this is all in good fun. I'm trying to get Windsor to stop in since he's gushing all over his F30 which replaces an E90.... clearly the man is a poser.

I created this thread as, by reading the E90 forum, one would believe that the launch of the F30 signals the apocalypse for "true BMW boy racer diehards"!

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  #90  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Daedalus34r View Post
This. Why are we praising limp steering? Sounds like people want a Lexus but with a BMW badge so they can still be in the club. I can turn the E46/E90 steering with my pinky and im not even that strong. Should used E90s be sold with a gym membership instead of a CPO warranty? LOL
you can't be more wrong. In the sport or sport + setting the F30 has IMO a great steering feel. is it as direct as the E90. No but its close. You people have to remember this is not a mechanical steering. But to say its limp is way out of line.

You E90 folks remind me of all the Porsche 911 people that went ballistic with the same issue. And I bet 95% of those people didn't drive a car with this steering setup. Just repeated what other said. My opinion is BMW did a great job with the F30 steering. In Eco and Comfort, yes its very very light, I don't like it. In sport and sport + however its just about perfect for me.
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  #91  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:54 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Out of respect for the members of this new car forum, we request that you please turn off your signature showing an old, used car.

Thank you.

BJ
It is beautiful so he won't.

Thank you.
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  #92  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:57 AM
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All the e90 owners are that are bitching now will be F30 owners in 2-3 years when their current leases run out
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  #93  
Old 10-10-2012, 08:00 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Comments in another thread reminded me of something else in this comparison.

The E90 stereo system (at least the base one) is simply terrible compared to the one in the F30. Now I know that most E90 fans could care less about how the stereo sounds since they have it turned off to listen to the music that the wonderful I6 engine makes, but for those of us who do long boring drives the sound system quality is of paramount importance.
The last things you should be buying a 3 series for are the stereo, technology and luxury features. You can get those for a lot less in a Lexus.
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  #94  
Old 10-10-2012, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by windsor027 View Post
you can't be more wrong. In the sport or sport + setting the F30 has IMO a great steering feel. is it as direct as the E90. No but its close. You people have to remember this is not a mechanical steering. But to say its limp is way out of line.

You E90 folks remind me of all the Porsche 911 people that went ballistic with the same issue. And I bet 95% of those people didn't drive a car with this steering setup. Just repeated what other said. My opinion is BMW did a great job with the F30 steering. In Eco and Comfort, yes its very very light, I don't like it. In sport and sport + however its just about perfect for me.
In sport mode I'm perfectly fine with the F30 steering. I don't have extensive driving time in the F30, but I found the steering to be just as direct and precise as the steering in my E90. I have active steering in my car and the F30 steering in sport mode feels very similar.

The steering in the F30 is, in fact, mechanical. It has electric power assist, but the steering rack has a direct mechanical operation.
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  #95  
Old 10-10-2012, 09:08 AM
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It is beautiful so he won't.

Thank you.
My little daughter often visits my office while I post, looks over my shoulder.

Please, think of the children.

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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
The last things you should be buying a 3 series for are the stereo, technology and luxury features. You can get those for a lot less in a Lexus.
Lexus? You're kidding, right?

If I wanted to get thrown out of the country club I'd just paint graffiti on the walls, would be a lot less painful. Two things:

1. A rebadged Toyota is not a luxury car.

2. All legends die, especially aged automotive status-symbols.

BJ
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  #96  
Old 10-10-2012, 09:38 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
The responses you've received from owners of older generation BMWs is to be expected. It happens every time a new generation is introduced. Those with the older generations defend it as the best generation and the new as lacking in comparison. It happened with the E36 -> E46 transition. The E46 to -> E9x transition. And now with the E9x to F3x transition.
I don't have negative feelings about the F30 and it has certain benefits vs the E90 but this is the first time that car magazines have said that the new generation is not an improvement on the old for enthusiasts.
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  #97  
Old 10-10-2012, 09:45 AM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
In sport mode I'm perfectly fine with the F30 steering. I don't have extensive driving time in the F30, but I found the steering to be just as direct and precise as the steering in my E90. I have active steering in my car and the F30 steering in sport mode feels very similar.

The steering in the F30 is, in fact, mechanical. It has electric power assist, but the steering rack has a direct mechanical operation.
Correct on precise, direct & mechanical. Both EPS & HPS have mechanical linkages (no drive-by-wire yet), however the overzealous electric power assist at the onset of every turn is causing the "numbness" on all EPS equipped BMWs. It takes great design and engineers to make an awesome EPS such as the one in 2013 Boxster.

Again, I'm not here to knock off F30 or anyone. I prefers both light (such as 2013 Boxster) & heavy (E90) steering unit as long as it isn't numb and provide feedback. Although I prefer E90 on interstates, I can still live with F30's suspension. BMW has done an excellent job on F30's suspension. I really dig the suspension. It'll be a dream to have E90's HPS + F30's suspension combo. Just another 2 cents.
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  #98  
Old 10-10-2012, 09:58 AM
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I don't have negative feelings about the F30 and it has certain benefits vs the E90 but this is the first time that car magazines have said that the new generation is not an improvement on the old for enthusiasts.
If BMW made business decisions based on enthusiasts, they'd be a niche company you'd have barely heard of.

When my dealer has 3s in stock, do you know what configuration they are? Mostly stripper no lines. Why? The majority of their customers want the $399 base lease. Only the badge matters to them.

Everyone on here arguing about M Adaptive and tech packages are outliers.
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  #99  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
Correct on precise, direct & mechanical. Both EPS & HPS have mechanical linkages (no drive-by-wire yet), however the overzealous electric power assist at the onset of every turn is causing the "numbness" on all EPS equipped BMWs. It takes great design and engineers to make an awesome EPS such as the one in 2013 Boxster.

Again, I'm not here to knock off F30 or anyone. I prefers both light (such as 2013 Boxster) & heavy (E90) steering unit as long as it isn't numb and provide feedback. Although I prefer E90 on interstates, I can still live with F30's suspension. BMW has done an excellent job on F30's suspension. I really dig the suspension. It'll be a dream to have E90's HPS + F30's suspension combo. Just another 2 cents.
As I mentioned I have active steering in my E90 and the EPS in the F30, set to sport, feels the same to me. I didn't choose to have active steering in my car (I bought it used), but I like it. I don't know if the EPS is over-zealous or not. It may feel that way 'cause it's not active until the wheel begins to turn.

btw - ZF supplies Porsche's EPS, too. They gave the job to ZF because their system is "so good". ZF also supplies the same EPS system to Ford. It is in use in their Super Duty trucks. I spoke to a ZF rep at the NAIAS in Detroit in January. He said the feel is entirely up to the programming the auto manufacturer chooses. Maybe down the road BMW or a third party will offer alternate programming to modify the steering dynamics.
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  #100  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:05 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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My little daughter often visits my office while I post, looks over my shoulder.

Please, think of the children.



Lexus? You're kidding, right?

If I wanted to get thrown out of the country club I'd just paint graffiti on the walls, would be a lot less painful. Two things:

1. A rebadged Toyota is not a luxury car.

2. All legends die, especially aged automotive status-symbols.

BJ
The new ES350 offers a lot more in terms of luxury, technology, power and styling for the same or less than the F30.
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