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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #176  
Old 10-11-2012, 07:45 AM
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Audi choose to detune the 2.0T engine for better refinement. As someone have already mentioned, Audi have version of the 2.0T engine that is more powerful than the N20. I have driven both the Audi A4 and the F30, although the F30 is a tad bit quicker, the A4's powertrain is definitely more refined. To say the N20 is far better than the 2.0T is just not true, both engines have been on the Ward's 10 best engine list.
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  #177  
Old 10-11-2012, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Another good example is when these fanboys made fun of Audi because all their cars are starting to look alike, now BMW is doing the same thing.
"Same sausage, different lengths" didn't originate in the last couple of years. This has been BMW's SOP for decades. The E65/66 & E60 were aberrations.

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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
How is the BMW four better than Audi?
Find out for yourself. Drive it.

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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
The real question shall be " How are BMW & Audi 4 banger better than Hyundai's ?"

Genesis' 2.0 T is rated @ 274 hp. Pretty surreal & humbling huh?
No, it won't be and no it isn't. As good as Hyundais may have gotten in recent years they do not compete with BMW, or Audi or Mercedes.
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  #178  
Old 10-11-2012, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Audi choose to detune the 2.0T engine for better refinement. As someone have already mentioned, Audi have version of the 2.0T engine that is more powerful than the N20. I have driven both the Audi A4 and the F30, although the F30 is a tad bit quicker, the A4's powertrain is definitely more refined. To say the N20 is far better than the 2.0T is just not true, both engines have been on the Ward's 10 best engine list.
Yes, they both made the list, however for 2011 the N20 was added to the list and the Audi/VW 2.0T was dropped from the list if I remember correctly. That should tell you something.
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  #179  
Old 10-11-2012, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Audi choose to detune the 2.0T engine for better refinement. As someone have already mentioned, Audi have version of the 2.0T engine that is more powerful than the N20. I have driven both the Audi A4 and the F30, although the F30 is a tad bit quicker, the A4's powertrain is definitely more refined. To say the N20 is far better than the 2.0T is just not true, both engines have been on the Ward's 10 best engine list.
Your opinion, not fact. You seem to have difficulty distinguishing the two.
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  #180  
Old 10-11-2012, 08:08 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
"Same sausage, different lengths" didn't originate in the last couple of years. This has been BMW's SOP for decades. The E65/66 & E60 were aberrations.



Find out for yourself. Drive it.



No, it won't be and no it isn't. As good as Hyundais may have gotten in recent years they do not compete with BMW, or Audi or Mercedes.
Don't have to. I owned one for over 2 years.
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  #181  
Old 10-11-2012, 08:13 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Here is a direct comparison:


Both cars have the same transmission. Despite the A4 being heavier and down in hp (well at least on paper) it posts nearly identical acceleration times while achieving nearly identical fuel economy. On the side note it was also a better performer in braking, steering and most importantly slalom speed while riding on a much older chassis. I don't see how the N20 is any better than the TSFI. The proof is in the pudding.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ison-tests.pdf
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  #182  
Old 10-11-2012, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Yes, they both made the list, however for 2011 the N20 was added to the list and the Audi/VW 2.0T was dropped from the list if I remember correctly. That should tell you something.
On that same note, the Audi 2.0T have been on the Wards top 10 for a number of years, lets just see if the N20 can stay on the list for as long.
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  #183  
Old 10-11-2012, 08:31 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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I did not feel that the E90 provided enough additional feedback that it would warrant a claim that it is BETTER than the F30, only that it is different, and certainly might appeal to different drivers.
And that right there is at the heart of most every discussion about cars. There's typically no right or wrong...just different.
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  #184  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
Here is a direct comparison:


Both cars have the same transmission. Despite the A4 being heavier and down in hp (well at least on paper) it posts nearly identical acceleration times while achieving nearly identical fuel economy. On the side note it was also a better performer in braking, steering and most importantly slalom speed while riding on a much older chassis. I don't see how the N20 is any better than the TSFI. The proof is in the pudding.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ison-tests.pdf
What tires are on each vehicle? The proof is in the tires. And BMW has been STUPIDLY supplying cars for these tests with the lowest performing tires they have ever put on a production vehicle. Apparently they think the car rags are going to be placing most of their scoring weight on Efficient Dynamics.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 10-11-2012 at 08:38 PM.
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  #185  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:06 AM
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I don't know what happened to Lexus but they definitely lost their way. My 92 SC300 coupe was one of the best cars I ever had. It was a really great GT car, very refined, excellent ergonomics, a great balance between comfort and performance and it felt like it was carved out of a solid block of steel. If they had continued to devlop that model I would have seriously considered another. As it turned out they had replaced it with the SC430 retractable hardtop convertible, which I had no interest in at all. We wound up getting the E93 as the New York car and a Jaguar XKR as the Florida car.

It will be interesting to see what Lexus comes up with over the next few years but I suspect there may be some interesting new Lexus models in the near future.

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After 6-7 years with a 2005 Lexus Rx330 I also really appreciate Lexus vehicles. I would recommend that car to anyone. Great blend of luxury/technology/reliability and not bad on fuel economy for an SUV either.
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  #186  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:17 AM
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I took an F30 test drive and I swear it took all of 30 seconds pulling out of the BMW driveway into 60 MPH traffic flow to realize that this was the lightest, tightest, most effortless engine/transmission combo I'd ever experienced. And that was before I appreciated how comfortable the ride was and how rocket-like Sport mode was. And then I stopped smiling just long enough to notice the interior design and the head-up display and the iDrive enhancements and that was that. Took all of 5 minutes.

BJ
I was just about to order a Merc C250 when I got a call from my BMW dealer to say F30's had just arrived (this was in Feb). I had the exact same experience and ordered on the spot after the test drive!
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  #187  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:23 AM
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It's not really surprising seeing the N20 underrated. BMW has a track record for that.
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  #188  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:24 AM
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After 6-7 years with a 2005 Lexus Rx330 I also really appreciate Lexus vehicles. I would recommend that car to anyone. Great blend of luxury/technology/reliability and not bad on fuel economy for an SUV either.
yea but I find it butt ugly. The only Japanese SUV I like the looks of is the Acura MDX. And from what I hear from friends that have one its one heck of a reliable, solid SUV. I was seriously considering it before I gave the X5 another shot (and only because it was a diesel) after the debacle with the 4.8i X5 I had.
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Last edited by windsor027; 10-11-2012 at 09:27 AM.
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  #189  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:31 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is online now
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
The real question shall be " How are BMW & Audi 4 banger better than Hyundai's ?"

Genesis' 2.0 T is rated @ 274 hp. Pretty surreal & humbling huh?
Inside Line has now dyno'd the Hyundai 2.0T and N20 on Dynojets so it's a fair comparison. It showed the N20 made a hp or two and tq more and at a more usable RPM. It's on Youtube.
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  #190  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:31 AM
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yea but I find it butt ugly. The only Japanese SUV I like the looks of is the Acura MDX. And from what I hear from friends that have one its one heck of a reliable, solid SUV. I was seriously considering it before I gave the X5 another shot (and only because it was a diesel) after the debacle with the 4.8i X5 I had.
Really? You find the 2005 RX ugly? I agree a lot of Lexus models are not that good-looking but this one I've always though is a great design. Of course styling is a matter of personal taste, I really like the F30 but a lot of people don't.
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  #191  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:34 AM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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I was just about to order a Merc C250 when I got a call from my BMW dealer to say F30's had just arrived (this was in Feb). I had the exact same experience and ordered on the spot after the test drive!
It was easy, right?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: There is not a single E90 driver alive that wouldn't love the F30. BMW took the E90, made it lighter, made it more powerful, made it smoother to drive, enhanced the standard features, loaded it with tech goody options, kept the price the same.

Styling is subjective, but if you lived with the Pokemon E90, can't see how you wouldn't like the Angry Birds F30. Driving it on a track or like a maniac was never its intended purpose, driving it on local streets and highways responsibly is.

BJ
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  #192  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
It was easy, right?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: There is not a single E90 driver alive that wouldn't love the F30. BMW took the E90, made it lighter, made it more powerful, made it smoother to drive, enhanced the standard features, loaded it with tech goody options, kept the price the same.

Styling is subjective, but if you lived with the Pokemon E90, can't see how you wouldn't like the Angry Birds F30. Driving it on a track or like a maniac was never its intended purpose, driving it on local streets and highways responsibly is.

BJ
BMW drivers have moved away from that Stigma of being boy racers. Audi's, now their is a car you have to watch.
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  #193  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:51 AM
sr5959 sr5959 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
It was easy, right?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: There is not a single E90 driver alive that wouldn't love the F30. BMW took the E90, made it lighter, made it more powerful, made it smoother to drive, enhanced the standard features, loaded it with tech goody options, kept the price the same.

Styling is subjective, but if you lived with the Pokemon E90, can't see how you wouldn't like the Angry Birds F30. Driving it on a track or like a maniac was never its intended purpose, driving it on local streets and highways responsibly is.

BJ
Actually BJ I was never an E90 owner, but i was comparing the F30 to A4 and C-Class, and yes actually a used E90 I had test-driven. However I can totally understand some E90 owners not liking the way the F30 drives it is a very different feel...
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  #194  
Old 10-11-2012, 10:10 AM
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Actually BJ I was never an E90 owner, but i was comparing the F30 to A4 and C-Class, and yes actually a used E90 I had test-driven. However I can totally understand some E90 owners not liking the way the F30 drives it is a very different feel...
I don't know about that. if you are saying the F30 feels bigger it does. But again with adaptive suspension and sport or sport+ setting, I find the steering similar and the handling better (more neutral and forgiving) while the ride is simply way better.
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  #195  
Old 10-11-2012, 11:53 AM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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Not really. Google "N20 underrated"
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
It's not really surprising seeing the N20 underrated. BMW has a track record for that.
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Inside Line has now dyno'd the Hyundai 2.0T and N20 on Dynojets so it's a fair comparison. It showed the N20 made a hp or two and tq more and at a more usable RPM. It's on Youtube.
Is this the Edmond/Insideline "underrated N20 dyno" that you all are talking about?

N20 did 240 @ 5,250rpm & 257 lb-ft @ 4,450 rpm ( video clip 1:20 mark) ;

Hyundai 2.0 T rated 279 hp/ 262 lb-ft.

Pretty surreal & Humbling huh?




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  #196  
Old 10-11-2012, 11:56 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
Is this the Edmond/Insideline "underrated N20 dyno" that you all are talking about?

N20 did 240 @ 5,250rpm & 257 lb-ft @ 4,450 rpm ( video clip 1:20 mark) ;

Hyundai 2.0 T rated 279 hp/ 262 lb-ft.

Pretty surreal & Humbling huh?




Impressive!
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  #197  
Old 10-11-2012, 12:00 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Here is a link to the A4 TFSI Dyno:

http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_up...sivl_long.html

212 HP 280 TRQ! Not sure if its Quattro or not, but if it is then that is even more impressive! I still don't see how anyone can claim that the N20 is superior to the A4.

Last edited by LegendsNeverDie; 10-11-2012 at 12:01 PM.
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  #198  
Old 10-11-2012, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
Is this the Edmond/Insideline "underrated N20 dyno" that you all are talking about?

N20 did 240 @ 5,250rpm & 257 lb-ft @ 4,450 rpm ( video clip 1:20 mark) ;

Hyundai 2.0 T rated 279 hp/ 262 lb-ft.

Pretty surreal & Humbling huh?
Yet the 328i is faster to 60 MPH and 1/4 miles than the Hyundai.
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  #199  
Old 10-11-2012, 12:05 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
What tires are on each vehicle? The proof is in the tires. And BMW has been STUPIDLY supplying cars for these tests with the lowest performing tires they have every put on a production vehicle. Apparently they think the car rags are going to be placing most of their scoring weight on Efficient Dynamics.
I can make the argument about the price difference then, the F30 costs 7,000 USD more!
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  #200  
Old 10-11-2012, 12:11 PM
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justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
Here is a link to the A4 TFSI Dyno:

http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_up...sivl_long.html

212 HP 280 TRQ! Not sure if its Quattro or not, but if it is then that is even more impressive! I still don't see how anyone can claim that the N20 is superior to the A4.


Bull ****. Apr tunes audi's i dont trust their numbers at all. I found a bunch of dynos of the 2,0t

Here is the 2.0t

I even found an APR dyno,

stock numbers on dyno are 200/225

N20>A4

Good effort but try harder.
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Last edited by justinnum1; 10-11-2012 at 12:12 PM.
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