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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 10-09-2012, 02:28 PM
EcobeemerNH EcobeemerNH is offline
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2012 X5 35d ECU brainfart

So this past Saturday 10/6 I pulled my x5 out of the garage after it was sitting there for 10-11 hours , let it warm up , and went on my way to breakfast and to do a few errands. 3 miles down the road, every warning light possible came on, gauges went dead, heads up dead, HVAC dead, Stereo system dead, but still was running, then headlights were turning on and off. I called my local dealer and I drive it directly there shut it off, and check in... We go back out to my X5 and it won't unlock any doors, had to use the physical key to unlock the drivers door, then it wouldn't open the tailgate, the 3 passenger doors, tech tried to start it , it wouldn't start up, kept going through all the errors on the command screen and showing a lift with car symbol in the gauge cluster. They hold down the " start/stop button and it starts up, but won't disengage the starter and you could here it grinding away while the engine was running.

They pull it into the shop and shut it off, and try and connect their computer to it, won't even see the car, they called BMW , BMW told them to do a battery reset. Got to communicate with the X5, started a download to send to BMW, BMW says to do a complete system reflash of all the computer systems, and reprogram the car. Monday they get back working on it, reprogram my x5 and take it for a test drive and does the same thing but completely dies on the tech 1 mile down the road. So ECU replaced, ( pre-oreded on Saturday) reprogramed the x5 again, and all is good so far...

Also there is a software update for 2010-12 35ds that now noticed shuts off the fuel pumps & ECU in 2 mins instead of the 5 minutes after you exit the rig or open and close the doors.
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2012, 03:16 PM
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I know I'm gonna get hammered for saying this, but something about the X5's build quality suggests some inconsistencies with stuff built in the US.
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Last edited by AzNMpower32; 10-09-2012 at 03:17 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2012, 03:41 PM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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Haha +1 on the build quality
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  #4  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:24 PM
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kanar200 kanar200 is offline
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check the quality issues reported on F10 boards - bulit in Germany...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
I know I'm gonna get hammered for saying this, but something about the X5's build quality suggests some inconsistencies with stuff built in the US.
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:52 PM
EcobeemerNH EcobeemerNH is offline
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Don't get me started on the build quality... Rear hatch was rattling for 7 weeks before someone figured out lift gate locks and guilds were the problem, BOTH rear doors weren't aliened correctly , rear armrest bolts came loose, oil level sensor failed and was telling me the engine oil was over filled 1200 miles after it's first oil change. Mine must have been build on a Monday or Friday in SC....just saying....
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2012, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EcobeemerNH View Post
Don't get me started on the build quality... Rear hatch was rattling for 7 weeks before someone figured out lift gate locks and guilds were the problem, BOTH rear doors weren't aliened correctly , rear armrest bolts came loose, oil level sensor failed and was telling me the engine oil was over filled 1200 miles after it's first oil change. Mine must have been build on a Monday or Friday in SC....just saying....
My dad's was a Montagsauto (monday car) as well. Rear hatch, moonroof, driver's seat all had rattles or squeaks. The passenger mirror howled above 60km/h. And that's just the beginning. My 2004 X3 with 138k doesn't rattle at all even when I blast over forest and gravel roads.

On the plus side the X5 does give my dad the ownership experience of a plug-in hybrid. The battery died without warning 7 months into the lease, so now it's the equivalent of a plug-in hybrid as my dad trickle charges it every weekend for fear of a repeat performance.
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  #7  
Old 10-09-2012, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
I know I'm gonna get hammered for saying this, but something about the X5's build quality suggests some inconsistencies with stuff built in the US.
I'm not fighting with you, but there are other foreign, non-german manufacturers like Toyota/Honda that build pretty damn reliable cars from an American workforce, could it be the suppliers giving shoddier equipment?

I'm more curious why cars over here would be less reliable? I've heard horror stories on the Z4 in particular, another US built car.

Lack of training? Lack of quality control? Bad plant management? Different union styles?

I'm just more curious where the issues would be stemming from.
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  #8  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
I know I'm gonna get hammered for saying this, but something about the X5's build quality suggests some inconsistencies with stuff built in the US.
You make it seem like the European built BMWs are better... The F10 has been plagued with issues since it has been out and the E83 isn't really a posterchild for BMW quality.

This is for everyone. BMW quality has been on the decline. MB and Audi are better. If anyone disagrees with that, they are clueless or just delusional.
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  #9  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisF02 View Post
I'm not fighting with you, but there are other foreign, non-german manufacturers like Toyota/Honda that build pretty damn reliable cars from an American workforce, could it be the suppliers giving shoddier equipment?

I'm more curious why cars over here would be less reliable? I've heard horror stories on the Z4 in particular, another US built car.

Lack of training? Lack of quality control? Bad plant management? Different union styles?

I'm just more curious where the issues would be stemming from.
Agree 100%. How can Toyota, Honda, Acura, Lexus, MB, etc all build cars in North America to a higher quality standard? It's just poor quality control it seems

Good example is the first gen Mercedes ML and E53. Both piles of crap
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  #10  
Old 10-10-2012, 08:54 AM
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My father had an '03 Toyota Camry Solara which also had build quality issues, namely misaligned panels and a rattling in the headliner. However, that was a mediocre car to begin with. He's sworn off US-built vehicles after this X5. I'm not as quick to rush to judgment on all US built cars, but BMW uses a contract hiring firm (MAU) for a fair share of its employees in Spartanburg.
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  #11  
Old 10-10-2012, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
I know I'm gonna get hammered for saying this, but something about the BMW's build quality suggests some inconsistencies with stuff engineered by BMW .
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  #12  
Old 10-10-2012, 09:22 AM
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kanar200 kanar200 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
(...)
This is for everyone. BMW quality has been on the decline. MB and Audi are better. If anyone disagrees with that, they are clueless or just delusional.
You are living in a world where Audi is the best (hence the nickname). It is NOT. With respect to quality it is enough to google "audi recalls" and you will see how many issues there are with Audi (airbags, fuel system, power train, etc.). I am not a member of any Audi forum, so can't comment on any of these issues. However, a few years back my friend had Audi Allroad 2.5 TDI - OMG, that was a disaster; he had to change the whole air suspension, what cost him 50-60% value of the car. The engine required very expensive services, etc.

IMO in general the quality of MB, Audi or BMW is more less on the same level.

There are other aspects where I am looking for the differences. I am driving diesel engines. BMW has the best diesel engine (and not Audi or MB). Audi is a few years behind.
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  #13  
Old 10-10-2012, 12:53 PM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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I think ARD has got it on point. The build quality on vehicles that BMW makes is questionable due to the nature of the product being produced. There is absolutely no excuse for other manufacturers and their respective suppliers to have the same quality issues that vehicles Mercedes and BMW since most their products have been real-world tested for at least a decade (look at my sig it's self explanatory).

Its like buying an iPhone 5, and discovering the camera has purple tint issues or the aluminum scratches too easily, your gonna have to pay some price to get the pinnacle of ios smartphone technology in a light weight form factor. If you want to get the kinks worked out, then wait till the last MY when most of the issues are worked out.
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  #14  
Old 10-10-2012, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanar200 View Post
You are living in a world where Audi is the best (hence the nickname). It is NOT. With respect to quality it is enough to google "audi recalls" and you will see how many issues there are with Audi (airbags, fuel system, power train, etc.). I am not a member of any Audi forum, so can't comment on any of these issues. However, a few years back my friend had Audi Allroad 2.5 TDI - OMG, that was a disaster; he had to change the whole air suspension, what cost him 50-60% value of the car. The engine required very expensive services, etc.

IMO in general the quality of MB, Audi or BMW is more less on the same level.

There are other aspects where I am looking for the differences. I am driving diesel engines. BMW has the best diesel engine (and not Audi or MB). Audi is a few years behind.
Go google toyota or lexus recalls and you will get millions of hits. But no one in their right mind would consider them not dependable. Lexus has been #1 for years now. Toyota is right up there also.

You can google any of the three brands and many many issues will come up. This is hardly a good way to gauge any issue. If you have actually owned any of these other products (i.e Audi/VW/MB), then your 2 cents would have some merit.

The fact of the matter is that now, Mercedes Benz is leaps and bounds better than BMW/Audi. Their quality/reliability is up there with the best of them. Recent JD Power put Mercedes Benz better than Nissan, Infiniti, Honda, Acura in terms of their VDS. This is coming from a brand that in the late 90s and early 2000s made complete junk. That is what I call a turn around.

BMW has gone the opposite way. Go take a peak in the F10 forums. HPFP problems, throttle lag, transmission lag, iDrive glitches. Not to mention, the N54/N55 still suffer injector problems, among other issues. Go take a peak at the C7 A6 forums. Nothing to report at all. Powertrain (even with the new 3.0T) seems to have no troubles at all. Early 3.0T cars had plastic water pumps that would explode. Audi took care of it asap and issued a recall. BMW is still dicking around with the whole fuel system fiasco and throttle tip-in problems.

Audi is right around average. And look at BMW. lower than Audi

Audi quality has improving, whereas BMW has been in decline.

2012


2011


2010
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  #15  
Old 10-10-2012, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanar200 View Post

There are other aspects where I am looking for the differences. I am driving diesel engines. BMW has the best diesel engine (and not Audi or MB). Audi is a few years behind.
Not in the US market, they don't. (Your experiences in Europe don't matter here at all).

The Audi (and Mercedes) engines are smoother (VAG is using a newer generation of Bosch's CRD technology in their engines), quieter, more economical, and above all, don't sound like a truck at idle.

My old VW 2.0TDI was silent compared to the racket that the M57 in my X5 makes.
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
My father had an '03 Toyota Camry Solara which also had build quality issues, namely misaligned panels and a rattling in the headliner. However, that was a mediocre car to begin with. He's sworn off US-built vehicles after this X5. I'm not as quick to rush to judgment on all US built cars, but BMW uses a contract hiring firm (MAU) for a fair share of its employees in Spartanburg.
It might be the quality of workers in that area or the firm.

My family and I have owned countless US-made (and Japanese) Toyota products over the years and they all have been fantastic. The Japanese (and Mercedes) seem to have consistency between the factories down.
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:27 PM
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Please... 35d is like 6 or 7 years old. The fact that BMW is offering only this old diesel engine in the US (this is a sales strategy) does not change the fact that they are building better diesel engines - I have not seen VAG diesels winning engine of the year award.

It took VAG 6 or 7 years to catch up with BMW and to offer bi-turbo diesel. Apart from that BMW will be launching new diesel engines next year. And I am pretty sure that AGAIN they will be a class better than VAG diesels.

Are you trying to compare sounds of diesel in SUV and sedan? Don't be ridiculous. 35d in 335d is quieter than in X5 - there is nothing to compare.


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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Not in the US market, they don't. (Your experiences in Europe don't matter here at all).

The Audi (and Mercedes) engines are smoother (VAG is using a newer generation of Bosch's CRD technology in their engines), quieter, more economical, and above all, don't sound like a truck at idle.

My old VW 2.0TDI was silent compared to the racket that the M57 in my X5 makes.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Agree 100%. How can Toyota, Honda, Acura, Lexus, MB, etc all build cars in North America to a higher quality standard? It's just poor quality control it seems

Good example is the first gen Mercedes ML and E53. Both piles of crap
Honestly it sounds like more of a supplier quality control issue than an assembly line issue. I had a o2 sensor that had to be replaced, it gave my F02 a drivetrain malfunction. It just had to be replaced, not that it was installed incorrectly. One can still blame BMW, as they have the clout to MAKE those tier 1 & 2 suppliers get their schei▀ together.

I'm referring to the OP's issue with the ECU, not any squeaks/rattles from an assembly of a E70, then yea thats the problem of the plant.

If they installed something wrong, or poorly, then its definitely the fault of the QC at the plant, but aside from the body, how many parts does BMW actually make themselves?
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