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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #51  
Old 12-09-2012, 10:01 AM
poolman poolman is offline
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Doru--what does the Zions part do , that is concerning the hook up--do they have a temp sensor hooked there to feed info and keep the code at bay? We are both thinking outside the box on this--there's gotta be a cheaper solution to reach the goal
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  #52  
Old 12-09-2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by poolman View Post
Doru--what does the Zions part do , that is concerning the hook up--do they have a temp sensor hooked there to feed info and keep the code at bay? We are both thinking outside the box on this--there's gotta be a cheaper solution to reach the goal
Sorry being late.

A few years back I did sent an e-mail to Zions asking about the hook-up. They answered me and told me that the hook-up is not necessary, the OEM connector, would be just dangling (one would tape it and "hide" it). Next, you would always have the "Failed T-stat" code stored (accessible only with GT1, INPA, Autologic, etc), so you it will not trigger a CEL. And that's it. A few years back, they didn't had it in stock, now it's about 30 bux more expensive, if I remember correctly.

Now, maybe get a Zions unit, and keep the OEM "electronic" part (yanked out of the OEM T-stat), and plug in the connector? Not sure I have to study this.

P.S.: Maybe, one could rig the "electronic" part, or a temp sensor onto the engine block, close to where the t-stat is, tricking the computer? (If installing a Zions unit). Could this work? What is the construction of the "electronic" part? Anyone did an autopsy on it? I will not buy another OEM-like unit.
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Last edited by doru; 12-10-2012 at 08:40 AM.
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  #53  
Old 12-31-2012, 09:26 AM
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Got a workaround for this issue in cold weather. One will drive in a cold cabin a tad longer, but the mpg improves dramatically. Thread.
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  #54  
Old 01-01-2013, 07:03 PM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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nice work around Doru
i have another question , what is your MPG going ~100MPH
normally my was keeping 23-24MPG at this speed but last time in 200 miles trip it failed to 20MPG

what are your numbers >>
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  #55  
Old 01-01-2013, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by doru View Post
Never thought of retaining the "electronically" part and plug it in as a dummy. But then, you will not acomplish anything, you will still have the failed t-stat code stored. Plugged into the dummy or unplugged. I'd just leave the harness unplugged. But that "cheap" Zions unit is still expensive at 200 bux less 1 buck... I looked at that unit since a loong time. But I'm getting fed up with this OEM t-stat that works only when it wants to.
The danger is that it can take the CCV with it when it gets cold for several days in a row....
My car just threw a Service Engine Soon light on the dash...
I found out that the thermostat is getting stuck open intermittently.
Thinking about the Zionsville thermostat...
Has anyone just replaced the thermostat only on the M54 electric plastic thermostat housing...?

Thanks!
Jason
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  #56  
Old 01-02-2013, 09:13 AM
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doru doru is offline
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Originally Posted by champaign777 View Post
nice work around Doru
i have another question , what is your MPG going ~100MPH
normally my was keeping 23-24MPG at this speed but last time in 200 miles trip it failed to 20MPG

what are your numbers >>
Sorry, can't answer your question. Haven't been on the Hi-way for quite some time, but at 120 Km/Hr (that's about 75 mph) I had a consistent 30-31 mpg. Driving 100 mph is asking for trouble where I live.
Now in the city I get 19.5 - 20 mpg, if this is any help.
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  #57  
Old 01-02-2013, 02:54 PM
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Doru,
Have you thought about going with the Zionville Thermostat...?
Have you replaced your thermostat yet...?

Thanks!
Jason
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  #58  
Old 01-02-2013, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
Doru,
Have you thought about going with the Zionville Thermostat...?
Have you replaced your thermostat yet...?

Thanks!
Jason
Hi Jason. I thought about that T-stat for quite some time now - 4 years to be precise. But thoughts only. I spoke to the Zionsville people as well, and they told me that the car will throw the proprietary code as soon as you install it due to the lack of wiring. And thinking about it, the only way of circumventing this would be to take of the circuitry together with the connector from an old OEM T-stat and rig it somehow, so it stays on a warm/hot part of the engine, just so it gives signal to the ECU and fooling it to open more the T-stat, or to close it a tad if it's open too much. It has no bearing on air/fuel mapping. The thing is, the OEM "electronically" controlled T-stats seem to fail due to the electronic part, not the standard valve failing, so if one rigs up just the "electronic" part, how long would that part last? Maybe the failure has something to do with some consistent higher temps over the 96C range? I don't know, this is just speculation on my part. I know that the biggest killer of electronics is poor cooling. Maybe when the car is really warm, then the engine is shut down, the coolant doesn't flow and the T-stat is stuck right there with high coolant temps for a long period of time? I have no answer for this.
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  #59  
Old 01-02-2013, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by doru View Post
Hi Jason. I thought about that T-stat for quite some time now - 4 years to be precise. But thoughts only. I spoke to the Zionsville people as well, and they told me that the car will throw the proprietary code as soon as you install it due to the lack of wiring. And thinking about it, the only way of circumventing this would be to take of the circuitry together with the connector from an old OEM T-stat and rig it somehow, so it stays on a warm/hot part of the engine, just so it gives signal to the ECU and fooling it to open more the T-stat, or to close it a tad if it's open too much. It has no bearing on air/fuel mapping. The thing is, the OEM "electronically" controlled T-stats seem to fail due to the electronic part, not the standard valve failing, so if one rigs up just the "electronic" part, how long would that part last? Maybe the failure has something to do with some consistent higher temps over the 96C range? I don't know, this is just speculation on my part. I know that the biggest killer of electronics is poor cooling. Maybe when the car is really warm, then the engine is shut down, the coolant doesn't flow and the T-stat is stuck right there with high coolant temps for a long period of time? I have no answer for this.
Thanks D...!
I have been looking at the Wahler Thermostat...
http://www.bmaparts.com/ShopByVehicl...mostat&mode=PA
$45 for the Wahler Thermostat.

I am not sure if this Thermostat in the link above is any worse than buying the Thermostat from the Dealer for $75....?
My car only reaches 81-88 degrees F. now...

How do you know if the mechanical portion of the Thermostat failed, or just the electronic portion...?
I really think the actually Mechanic portion (actual Thermostat) has failed on my car...
I am not sure yet though...
However, the SES light did come on and warn me that there was/ is a problem...

Thanks!
Jason
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  #60  
Old 01-02-2013, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
Thanks D...!
I have been looking at the Wahler Thermostat...
http://www.bmaparts.com/ShopByVehicl...mostat&mode=PA
$45 for the Wahler Thermostat.

I am not sure if this Thermostat in the link above is any worse than buying the Thermostat from the Dealer for $75....?
My car only reaches 81-88 degrees F. now...

How do you know if the mechanical portion of the Thermostat failed, or just the electronic portion...?
I really think the actually Mechanic portion (actual Thermostat) has failed on my car...
I am not sure yet though...
However, the SES light did come on and warn me that there was/ is a problem...

Thanks!
Jason
Wahler is the genuine BMW brand for T-stat and not Behr as many think.
What was the code?
Normally the T-stats do not fail that often. I am not sure why the M54 engines T-stats fail so rapidly? And I am not sure how they fail. The most of them seem to luckily fail in the "open" position. In this case it would be nice to hold on to the unit and check it closely, because I have a hunch that this "failure" might be due to the electronic regulating part, but I am not sure. Here is what I think happens: The "failed" T-stat (the mechanical part) actually might work correct. Then the "electronic" part might be not working properly - the mechanical part opened the T-stat to max, at max operating temp. So there's no more of that little "give" to open it more, then to close it a tad back. Some sort of sensor sees it and reports the T-stat has failed in the open position. But actually the T-stat is good. One way to check is to monitor the KTMP with the HVAC closed and see how quickly/slow it reaches 94C, and if it cycles between 94C and 96C. If it does, the T-stat is good.
Now you said you drive with the max temp of 88C. Over what distance, and did you try having the HVAC closed?
Also, once the operating temp is reached and you hit the "auto" button on the HVAC, the temp drops to your reported 88C, if it's cold enough - that is a good measure below freezing. But it will go back up to the operating temps quite fast - 1 minute or 2 tops. Whereas if you leave the HVAC on auto from a cold start, it takes forever to reach operating temp. In terms of city driving distance, in my case, about 7-8 miles, which is a looong time. Keeping tabs on the HVAC, even if it's bitter cold, it warms up in less then 3 miles which is significant. That's what I am doing over the past few days. It's not convenient, but my mpg improved dramatically, and I believe the CCV is also thankful.
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  #61  
Old 01-03-2013, 10:52 AM
poolman poolman is offline
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The Walhor stat is the replacement I hope to install when the next warm air comes through--ment to do this work over the Holidays ,, but had the Flu and that ruined a lot of things. My temp doesn't get over 80 out on the road and after 1 hour of driving, but I still don't have a check engine code--I don't get that--I have noticed during the summer my fuel milage has been OK but bad during the Winter--Of course it's the stat--but ever since I installed this Berh stat back a few years ago, my mileage has been off from what it was.
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  #62  
Old 01-03-2013, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doru View Post
Wahler is the genuine BMW brand for T-stat and not Behr as many think.
What was the code?
Normally the T-stats do not fail that often.
I am not sure why the M54 engines T-stats fail so rapidly?
And I am not sure how they fail.
The most of them seem to luckily fail in the "open" position.
In this case it would be nice to hold on to the unit and check it closely, because I have a hunch that this "failure" might be due to the electronic regulating part, but I am not sure.

Here is what I think happens:

The "failed" T-stat (the mechanical part) actually might work correct.
Then the "electronic" part might be not working properly - the mechanical part opened the T-stat to max, at max operating temp.
So there's no more of that little "give" to open it more, then to close it a tad back. Some sort of sensor sees it and reports the T-stat has failed in the open position.
But actually the T-stat is good. One way to check is to monitor the KTMP with the HVAC closed and see how quickly/slow it reaches 94C, and if it cycles between 94C and 96C. If it does, the T-stat is good.
Now you said you drive with the max temp of 88C. Over what distance, and did you try having the HVAC closed?

Also, once the operating temp is reached and you hit the "auto" button on the HVAC, the temp drops to your reported 88C, if it's cold enough - that is a good measure below freezing.
But it will go back up to the operating temps quite fast - 1 minute or 2 tops.

Whereas if you leave the HVAC on auto from a cold start, it takes forever to reach operating temp. In terms of city driving distance, in my case, about 7-8 miles, which is a looong time.
Keeping tabs on the HVAC, even if it's bitter cold, it warms up in less then 3 miles which is significant.

That's what I am doing over the past few days. It's not convenient, but my mpg improved dramatically, and I believe the CCV is also thankful.

Thanks D...!

My button is always on "Auto".
My drive is about 15-20 minutes.
And, the temperature here is around 32 degrees F. in the morning.

The highest the KTMP reads is 88.
It is has recently been around 81 now, then climbs to around 88 when at a stop.

I have been in habit of always engaging the KTMP every time I drive the car now.

I will check the temperature with the HVAC off, and see what happens...

Thanks!
Jason
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  #63  
Old 01-03-2013, 12:38 PM
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Stuff deleted

I have been in habit of always engaging the KTMP every time I drive the car now.

I will check the temperature with the HVAC off, and see what happens...

Thanks!
Jason
Yes, do that. You can leave it on, but just adjust the vent setting to one dot only. It will barely move the coolant in the heater core. If you get up past 94C, you're golden. Then, you can hit again the "auto" button, which will drop for a couple of minutes the KTMP to about 88C, but back up quickly to "normal".
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Last edited by doru; 01-03-2013 at 12:39 PM.
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  #64  
Old 01-03-2013, 01:02 PM
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I dont think anyone has mentioned intake vacume leaks for killing gas mileage. I need to check this myself. I usualy see a few mpg improvment in winter because of not using the AC, but it hasnt happened this time.
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  #65  
Old 01-03-2013, 01:11 PM
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I dont think anyone has mentioned intake vacume leaks for killing gas mileage. I need to check this myself. I usualy see a few mpg improvment in winter because of not using the AC, but it hasnt happened this time.
In my case, the intake manifold has been carefully serviced this last summer in conjunction with ALL rubber related hoses and other stuff. She's a tight ship matey.
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  #66  
Old 01-14-2013, 02:33 PM
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Maybe the Zionsville T-stat has a lower temp setting, similar to this retrofit for the 540?
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  #67  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:44 AM
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On highway in my 2.2 e60 I was getting 38.6 mpg steady 70mph
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  #68  
Old 01-30-2013, 12:02 PM
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On highway in my 2.2 e60 I was getting 38.6 mpg steady 70mph
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  #69  
Old 01-30-2013, 12:39 PM
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Was getting that mpg before changed ccv,will take on another run soon see if improved with new one fitted
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  #70  
Old 05-07-2013, 08:36 PM
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Last days one of my 530i 80k miles is getting some "interesting" MPG issue
Normally when i drive > 100 miles my MPG starts from 27-28 MPG+ and after 30-60 min it starts to slow down to 25MPG ...
Same speed , same roads , same PSI... nothing else seems to be wrong and almost 0 oil consuming after CCV modification and 500 miles
Overall i was getting 480 miles on a tank where now it failed to 420-440 miles tank
CCV is not related as this issue is started before , CVV fixed oil consuming but not an MPG
T-T keeps stable 95C ... I start to think maybe to drop some seafoam into my air intake ahh
So any ideas why MPG fails on a long trips folks ?
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:43 AM
AH673000 AH673000 is offline
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So.... A drop of 10% from normal...

Worth checking first...

1) brakes are not dragging ( caliper hydraulic issue) when hot
2) dirty fuel injectors ( chevron Techtron)
3) failing spark plugs ( unlikely)
4) dirty air cleaner
5) tire pressure below specifications
6) engine rpms ( transmission )

I would think you would be throwing a CEL for more complex issues causing
Mileage to dip 10%.

I can tell you that once I changed tires from Mitchlen to Goodyear and lost 4% in mpg on the road . Another time I changed spark plug brands and lost 5% in mpg . When you get a step change like this it is usually something like that .
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  #72  
Old 05-08-2013, 03:58 AM
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The digital read out MPG on our car is base on the amount of pressure over RPM and MPH algorithm. If any time you've modified your CCV the MPG read out is going to change. The question have yet to answer is. Is it real?
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  #73  
Old 05-08-2013, 08:11 AM
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The digital read out MPG on our car is base on the amount of pressure over RPM and MPH algorithm. If any time you've modified your CCV the MPG read out is going to change. The question have yet to answer is. Is it real?
I always thought the fuel variables that are used in that algorithm were the injector open pulse time which is usually measure in ms (milliseconds) and fuel pressure which dictates the flow rate of the fuel in the system.
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  #74  
Old 05-08-2013, 12:00 PM
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So.... A drop of 10% from normal...

Worth checking first...

1) brakes are not dragging ( caliper hydraulic issue) when hot
[i] i rebuilt my brakes and they are not dragging when cold but i never checked on hot ...
good idea to check , tnx !
2) dirty fuel injectors ( chevron Techtron)
[i] added seefoam already , helped but not much
3) failing spark plugs ( unlikely)
[i] all new
4) dirty air cleaner
[i] all new
5) tire pressure below specifications
[i] 35 PCI front 37 PCI rear
6) engine rpms ( transmission )
[i] nothing wrong here and no errors

I would think you would be throwing a CEL for more complex issues causing
Mileage to dip 10%.

I can tell you that once I changed tires from Mitchlen to Goodyear and lost 4% in mpg on the road . Another time I changed spark plug brands and lost 5% in mpg . When you get a step change like this it is usually something like that .
[i] and i changed bunch of staff so go figure now ...
inside
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  #75  
Old 05-08-2013, 12:07 PM
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The digital read out MPG on our car is base on the amount of pressure over RPM and MPH algorithm. If any time you've modified your CCV the MPG read out is going to change. The question have yet to answer is. Is it real?
Alex believe me or not but i dont see any oil consuming on my cars now
After 500 miles i still see the same max dipstick level so "i want to believe in miracle"
Another thing that my second 530i has also CCV modification but no MPG failure

One think i'll probably do is to reset all idle adaptation values
Dont believe its the root of MPG problem but anywhere ..
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Last edited by champaign777; 05-08-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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