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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #651  
Old 10-24-2012, 07:57 PM
golovko golovko is offline
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Originally Posted by davnport View Post
Lots of fractions on this page.
7/10 of us would agree with you.
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  #652  
Old 10-24-2012, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by davnport View Post
Lots of fractions on this page.
+1

Yeah, it was beginning to get boring.
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  #653  
Old 10-24-2012, 08:04 PM
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7/10 of us would agree with you.
+1

lol
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  #654  
Old 10-24-2012, 08:10 PM
Jp23rockstar Jp23rockstar is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Incidentally I just ran into this video review, in which the reviewer actually did say 7/10 and 8/10 on backroads. I suppose he had no idea what he was talking about, after he was done with tests on the track:



I agree though, it would have looked crazy, if people were around to see it.
You would like to read this. http://wot.motortrend.com/exclusive-...ed-280959.html

So does this mean if motor trend did a re test between the 3 series and ats, the 3 series would lose if the shifter in the Ats gets fixed?
  #655  
Old 10-24-2012, 08:23 PM
davnport davnport is offline
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Originally Posted by golovko View Post
7/10 of us would agree with you.
Awesome
  #656  
Old 10-24-2012, 08:26 PM
bmwocean bmwocean is offline
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Originally Posted by 328i2013 View Post
After 13 weeks of waiting for my 328i.
And after having driven it for a week.
It hurts me to say that the 328i feels like an undwhelming boat.
I'm not terribly disappointed because its a beautiful luxury car.
But I don't think it's the ultimate driving machine.
Maybe the 335i is, but I've not driven it so I can't say for sure.
Already planning to get a Z4 or the new Boxster for thrillfull driving.
Hate me for saying all this.
But I simply had to say it.
And I gave it a week.
Maybe I'll feel differently in a month.
But maybe that will be cuz I might have got used to this 328i by then.

328xi is a great car if your looking for fuel economy and city drive, it still has lots of juice to get you fast after new turbo engine and great fuel economy but if your are looking for ultimate driving machine you need that extra 50 horses and you get that with 335, better handling than 328. There is no end to what you can get M3 obviously would be the best in the class but costs more, you can have that fun and driving pleasure with 335. I had 328xi(2011) and wanted to trade in for new one, drove both 328 and 335 back to back and decided right there and went with 335xi sport line, honestly those extra 50 horse with inline 6 cyl makes a huge difference.
  #657  
Old 10-24-2012, 08:48 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Because even pushing a very capable car 3/10 on public roads is a spectacular experience. Pushing only 3/10 in some cars like my 911 GTS is like 7/10 in most others.
I agree, but we are talking 328i
  #658  
Old 10-24-2012, 09:13 PM
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650 Plus posts and nobody has come up with the most obvious suggestion to solve the OP's dilemma.
If he does not like underwhelming boats he should get rid of the F30 and purchase an overwhelming boat.


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Last edited by captainaudio; 10-24-2012 at 09:18 PM.
  #659  
Old 10-24-2012, 09:18 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jp23rockstar View Post
You would like to read this. http://wot.motortrend.com/exclusive-...ed-280959.html

So does this mean if motor trend did a re test between the 3 series and ats, the 3 series would lose if the shifter in the Ats gets fixed?
I also read this news earlier. It is a smart move on the GM part to quickly respond to the comments by the mags, in particular the notchy manual shifter, and hold off the production until they address it. There is another issue with the manual gear ratios not optimum for faster 0-60 time, because a shift from the 2nd to the 3rd was needed.

My guess is they will still place the ATS 2.0T manual behind the F30 328i manual, by a hair, mainly because the ATS 2.0T engine is less refined and its power drops off too soon so you can't really rev it, which reduces the fun factor a lot especially with manual. There will be autos to compare too, and 335i turbo I6 vs. ATS 3.6 V6.

Last edited by dtc100; 10-24-2012 at 09:26 PM.
  #660  
Old 10-25-2012, 01:27 AM
hans007 hans007 is offline
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Originally Posted by bmwocean View Post
328xi is a great car if your looking for fuel economy and city drive, it still has lots of juice to get you fast after new turbo engine and great fuel economy but if your are looking for ultimate driving machine you need that extra 50 horses and you get that with 335, better handling than 328. There is no end to what you can get M3 obviously would be the best in the class but costs more, you can have that fun and driving pleasure with 335. I had 328xi(2011) and wanted to trade in for new one, drove both 328 and 335 back to back and decided right there and went with 335xi sport line, honestly those extra 50 horse with inline 6 cyl makes a huge difference.

exactly how does a 335i handle better than a 328i?

it weighs more. it has worse weight balance. there have been reviews of professional drivers saying it loses in the corners on tracks to the 328i.

don't just start making stuff up here. i mean the 328i if anything it has over a 335i is it weighs less and has less weight up front. physics doesnt lie.
  #661  
Old 10-25-2012, 06:07 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I also read this news earlier. It is a smart move on the GM part to quickly respond to the comments by the mags, in particular the notchy manual shifter, and hold off the production until they address it. There is another issue with the manual gear ratios not optimum for faster 0-60 time, because a shift from the 2nd to the 3rd was needed.

My guess is they will still place the ATS 2.0T manual behind the F30 328i manual, by a hair, mainly because the ATS 2.0T engine is less refined and its power drops off too soon so you can't really rev it, which reduces the fun factor a lot especially with manual. There will be autos to compare too, and 335i turbo I6 vs. ATS 3.6 V6.
As you say, that's a good start but it makes you wonder about GM and why they can't get this right initially. Part of this I think is GM does transmissions in-house and would not consider something like the great trannies coming out of ZF.

The engine is IMO an even larger issue if they want to field a world class sport sedan and compete with the 3 series as an overall package.
  #662  
Old 10-25-2012, 06:44 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
As you say, that's a good start but it makes you wonder about GM and why they can't get this right initially. Part of this I think is GM does transmissions in-house and would not consider something like the great trannies coming out of ZF.

The engine is IMO an even larger issue if they want to field a world class sport sedan and compete with the 3 series as an overall package.
You could say the same about BMW, why don't they get this right initially...look at the steering shake issue, it's affected people on this forum enough to need new cars or leave the brand all together.

This bushing change has not halted production. It's likely known as a running change. New production on the line will have the update and cars finished that are about to be transported will have the update. It's not like they are disassembling the transmissions to replace the bushing.
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  #663  
Old 10-25-2012, 07:05 AM
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650 Plus posts and nobody has come up with the most obvious suggestion to solve the OP's dilemma.
If he does not like underwhelming boats he should get rid of the F30 and purchase an overwhelming boat.


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  #664  
Old 10-25-2012, 07:28 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
You could say the same about BMW, why don't they get this right initially...look at the steering shake issue, it's affected people on this forum enough to need new cars or leave the brand all together.

This bushing change has not halted production. It's likely known as a running change. New production on the line will have the update and cars finished that are about to be transported will have the update. It's not like they are disassembling the transmissions to replace the bushing.
Yes that is an issue but tiny in importance compared to a wonky and subpar for class drivetrain. Even with the bushing change the gearing is less than ideal and the engine is far below the N20 in terms of power delivery and smoothness. GM has not done it's homework here.
  #665  
Old 10-25-2012, 07:40 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Yes that is an issue but tiny in importance compared to a wonky and subpar for class drivetrain. Even with the bushing change the gearing is less than ideal and the engine is far below the N20 in terms of power delivery and smoothness. GM has not done it's homework here.
It's not of tiny importance. Otherwise people would not be returning cars over it.

I wonder if the gearing can be worked around.

If they tweak the ecu a bit, maybe just 200rpm more usable power can have a redline shift so you can hit 60 in 2nd.

If this much discussion comes from the first try with the ATS, 3 years from now I sure hope the 3 series has it's A-game on. Right now, it's A- or B+ and that's coming from someone who bought one.
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  #666  
Old 10-25-2012, 07:49 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
It's not of tiny importance. Otherwise people would not be returning cars over it.

I wonder if the gearing can be worked around.

If they tweak the ecu a bit, maybe just 200rpm more usable power can have a redline shift so you can hit 60 in 2nd.

If this much discussion comes from the first try with the ATS, 3 years from now I sure hope the 3 series has it's A-game on. Right now, it's A- or B+ and that's coming from someone who bought one.
Compared to fundamental problems like a weak engine and poor transmission it's a tiny issue. I'm sure it's a serious issue to some on this board and elsewhere but a steering vibration issue has not been mentioned in any review I've seen but every ATS review seriously knocks the car's 2.0T drivetrain which is the sweet spot for an enthusiast. And this is of greater importance as Cadillac has aggressively targeted the 3 series as it's competition. They don't mention Audi, Lexus, MB or Infiniti, only BMW.

Here's my personal take. I like the ATS and can handle the issues with CUE and have thought about considering one for my next car. However the lack of refinement in the drivetrain is a major issue to me and as of now has disqualified the car from my consideration.
  #667  
Old 10-25-2012, 07:50 AM
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justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Compared to fundamental problems like a weak engine and poor transmission it's a tiny issue. I'm sure it's a serious issue to some on this board and elsewhere but a steering vibration issue has not been mentioned in any review I've seen but every ATS review seriously knocks the car's 2.0T drivetrain which is the sweet spot for an enthusiast. And this is of greater importance as Cadillac has aggressively targeted the 3 series as it's competition. They don't mention Audi, Lexus, MB or Infiniti, only BMW.

Here's my personal take. I like the ATS and can handle the issues with CUE and have thought about considering one for my next car. However the lack of refinement in the drivetrain is a major issue to me and as of now has disqualified the car from my consideration.
well said.
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  #668  
Old 10-25-2012, 07:54 AM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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well said.
The storm is coming.

Shouldn't you be taking your boat out for a swim?

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  #669  
Old 10-25-2012, 08:09 AM
kingfisher003 kingfisher003 is offline
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328i2013, sorry to hear that man. I feel your pain. I'm by far no expert, but when I test drove the 328i sedan, it was nice but felt like it was missing some hp. It was a short test drive so maybe not too fair of a judgment. I did test drive a 335i sedan yesterday and it just felt right. Smooth and enough hp for my satisfaction. My current car is a 2003 g35 coupe so I guess that's why I like the 335 better.
  #670  
Old 10-25-2012, 08:10 AM
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The storm is coming.

Shouldn't you be taking your boat out for a swim?

BJ
If you think what's coming is a storm, you have never seen a hurricane lol
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  #671  
Old 10-25-2012, 08:18 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Compared to fundamental problems like a weak engine and poor transmission it's a tiny issue. I'm sure it's a serious issue to some on this board and elsewhere but a steering vibration issue has not been mentioned in any review I've seen but every ATS review seriously knocks the car's 2.0T drivetrain which is the sweet spot for an enthusiast. And this is of greater importance as Cadillac has aggressively targeted the 3 series as it's competition. They don't mention Audi, Lexus, MB or Infiniti, only BMW.

Here's my personal take. I like the ATS and can handle the issues with CUE and have thought about considering one for my next car. However the lack of refinement in the drivetrain is a major issue to me and as of now has disqualified the car from my consideration.
The ATS manual tranny is not in house. Also the news did say GM stopped all delivery of the 2.0T manuals until the fix is done.

We don't know if they will try to update ecu or use other tricks to make further improvement. I am sure MT will do another comparison later, since they broke this news. I think it is a good thing to see manufactures serious about competing with one another.

Some may question what is the relevance of the ATS in this thead, if the OP go test drive an ATS, he might conclude the ATS is closer to his beloved Mini than the 328i.
  #672  
Old 10-25-2012, 08:37 AM
golovko golovko is offline
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The ATS manual tranny is not in house. Also the news did say GM stopped all delivery of the 2.0T manuals until the fix is done.

We don't know if they will try to update ecu or use other tricks to make further improvement. I am sure MT will do another comparison later, since they broke this news. I think it is a good thing to see manufactures serious about competing with one another.

Some may question what is the relevance of the ATS in this thead, if the OP go test drive an ATS, he might conclude the ATS is closer to his beloved Mini than the 328i.
He will never conclude that because the ATS is a larger sedan then his mini. Handles and drives completely different. Already been covered
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  #673  
Old 10-25-2012, 08:47 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
The ATS manual tranny is not in house. Also the news did say GM stopped all delivery of the 2.0T manuals until the fix is done.

We don't know if they will try to update ecu or use other tricks to make further improvement. I am sure MT will do another comparison later, since they broke this news. I think it is a good thing to see manufactures serious about competing with one another.

Some may question what is the relevance of the ATS in this thead, if the OP go test drive an ATS, he might conclude the ATS is closer to his beloved Mini than the 328i.
My mistake. Tremec makes the 6MT in the ATS. It makes no difference, it's not as good as it should be in this class of car. GM might have been better off using a ZF box. The point is that GM did not sweat the important details on the ATS 2.0T MT powertrain. The BMW N20 is a much better engine and is hooked up to a much better MT. If Cadillac wants to play with the big boys these are the major details that need to be world class.
  #674  
Old 10-25-2012, 08:50 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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He will never conclude that because the ATS is a larger sedan then his mini. Handles and drives completely different. Already been covered
I said "closer" because the ATS chassis is stiffer, little or no body roll at the corner, it felt lighter and smaller than F30 even though dimensions are almost identical. I had driven a Mini before, I can understand the OP's point. If he puts ATS in sport mode, the suspension will feel very much like a Mini, hard. Although magnetic ride control option is supposed to address that.

Last edited by dtc100; 10-25-2012 at 08:53 AM.
  #675  
Old 10-25-2012, 09:02 AM
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328i2013 328i2013 is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
if the OP go test drive an ATS, he might conclude the ATS is closer to his beloved Mini than the 328i.
I might just check out the ATS for the heck of it, since so much has been said about the F30/ATS comparison. I really can't imagine the ATS getting very close to the handling of the F30.

Even if all things were the same, I still wouldn't get a Caddy - because just the "caddy grandpa car" stigma means all things can't be the same.
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