F30 - 2013 335

Originally Posted by miamiboyca

Sorry but that statement lacks foresight. Its not that you will get $500 dollars of it back, its that it will be one of the few cars that does not have this technology. It will cause a car without to depreciate more - as a result the NAV will actually depreciate less. In addition you get years of use, updates, etc. Does the NAV have some issues, of course it does, they all do.

Also don't go too crazy with Android is better - one of the posts shows how Google has the same incorrect routing in more than on of the situations. Take a look.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=87

people aren't going to not buy your car, because it doesn't have nav or a hud. have you ever seen the differences in trade in prices for a nav or no nav car?

OPTIONS are the highest depreciating things on any car (which is why the lease residuals on cars with a ton of options are lower). you shoudl buy the least amount you can get away with buying while still getting the things you want. sure had i gotten HUD on my car, i'd have used it. its right in front of me. would have i used it enough to make up for say $3000 in 4 years or whenever i sell. highly unlikely. I am fairly certain this isn't my last car ever. so for i think most people who switch cars semi regularly its smarter to get less of the more frivolus options.

the nav on most cars is for one thing generally harder to input destinations on , and the routes are not as good as say google or even the currently not as good iphone. a lot of people like to have a screen of some sort in their new cars these days, modern cars its sort of expected. oh wait, ALL F30s have one.

the F30 obviously has lots of possible options. but if you would get little to no use out of an option i'd say don't get it. "people are going to expect it on the car" and your car will be worth less when you sell just doesnt work out.

Case in point. I just sold my 2010 A4 (a week ago, to buy a 2013 F30). When i bought it in 2010 people said the same thing, "oh you didnt get nav? how come?". to which i explained, the nav isnt that great and it was $2000. had i bought nav for my audi, then sold it last week, i'm 100% positive i would have gotten at best $500 back of my $2000. what did i use those 3 years? oh my android phone, which gave better directions and you could give voice commands like " in n out venice california" to, and it would automatically route, vs. manually entering in street , house number, city like most cars (i'm fairly certain its like this with the F30 too)

Originally Posted by hans007

people aren't going to not buy your car, because it doesn't have nav or a hud. have you ever seen the differences in trade in prices for a nav or no nav car?

OPTIONS are the highest depreciating things on any car (which is why the lease residuals on cars with a ton of options are lower). you shoudl buy the least amount you can get away with buying while still getting the things you want. sure had i gotten HUD on my car, i'd have used it. its right in front of me. would have i used it enough to make up for say $3000 in 4 years or whenever i sell. highly unlikely. I am fairly certain this isn't my last car ever. so for i think most people who switch cars semi regularly its smarter to get less of the more frivolus options.

the nav on most cars is for one thing generally harder to input destinations on , and the routes are not as good as say google or even the currently not as good iphone. a lot of people like to have a screen of some sort in their new cars these days, modern cars its sort of expected. oh wait, ALL F30s have one.

the F30 obviously has lots of possible options. but if you would get little to no use out of an option i'd say don't get it. "people are going to expect it on the car" and your car will be worth less when you sell just doesnt work out.

Case in point. I just sold my 2010 A4 (a week ago, to buy a 2013 F30). When i bought it in 2010 people said the same thing, "oh you didnt get nav? how come?". to which i explained, the nav isnt that great and it was $2000. had i bought nav for my audi, then sold it last week, i'm 100% positive i would have gotten at best $500 back of my $2000. what did i use those 3 years? oh my android phone, which gave better directions and you could give voice commands like " in n out venice california" to, and it would automatically route, vs. manually entering in street , house number, city like most cars (i'm fairly certain its like this with the F30 too)

With your line of thinking why even buy a "BMW" ? buy something like a "KIA" Good luck
cheers
vern

Originally Posted by vern

With your line of thinking why even buy a "BMW" ? buy something like a "KIA" Good luck
cheers
vern

Agreed. Sounds like he's trying to justify using Android and save the money on NAV, which is fine, but I think when people buy luxury brands, they expect some luxury features.

I'm sorry I don't buy cars for the next guy. (I'm thinking of that AUDI commercial for used cars). Keeping super low mileage and worrying about resale value...I just don't get spending that much money and 'saving' it for someone else.

And yes...NAV (Tech techII Driver assist and Premium) is a must IMHO, I think it just looks cheap having that suction cup in the window.

Originally Posted by jocamryn

I'm sorry I don't buy cars for the next guy. (I'm thinking of that AUDI commercial for used cars). Keeping super low mileage and worrying about resale value...I just don't get spending that much money and 'saving' it for someone else.

And yes...NAV (Tech techII Driver assist and Premium) is a must IMHO, I think it just looks cheap having that suction cup in the window.

No one is suggesting that you buy features "for the next guy". But like you pointed out, Nav is a "must". So when he gets ready to sell it, buyers like you (which is most) are just going to simply pass over the car. Instead of selling it in 2-3 weeks, it might take 6 months to find a buyer for a 335i without Nav. Unless you plan to drop your shorts on the price.

I'm the original owner. But yes, even on the new car lot, I'd pass over an F30 not equipped with NAVI or HUD.

Mine is a mineral gray sport 335i too - it looks super sharp and I get compliments on it constantly. I didn't get Nav/premium/tech. I don't feel some huge sense of loss, I bought the car for the driving experience and it totally delivers without those extras. You get a lot of "luxury" stuff standard on a 335 anyway - auto wipers, folding mirrors, iPod integration, adaptive xeons, seat memory, dimming mirror, but I'm coming from driving a Focus. :-) Sometimes I wish I had comfort access, but it wasn't worth the bundled package price to me. The ride on adaptive suspension is great and you do notice the variable steering in parking lots.

In the rare cases I need to nav somewhere, I use the iphone, or the $99 5"garmin for longer trip. I think most people truly use in car nav about 5% of the time. And I think my phone is always going to have better/easier to use/more up to date apps than iDrive ever will.

No disrespect meant to those who went for any of those options - ultimately it all comes down to what you feel you "need". I "needed" the most fun to drive car for the lowest price. My always-cold wife needed seat warmers. :-)

Originally Posted by hans007

people aren't going to not buy your car, because it doesn't have nav or a hud. have you ever seen the differences in trade in prices for a nav or no nav car?

I would not buy this type of car without a NAV - ever, I do not think I am the only one who feels this way.

Originally Posted by hans007

OPTIONS are the highest depreciating things on any car (which is why the lease residuals on cars with a ton of options are lower).

This is the most uneducated statement I have ever seen. You arejust completely misinformed.

In a BMW a 59% residual is a 59% residual. Be it a base car at 45K, or a fully loaded car at 60K. 59% is and always will be 59%.

Originally Posted by pacman335

In the rare cases I need to nav somewhere, I use the iphone, or the $99 5"garmin for longer trip. I think most people truly use in car nav about 5% of the time. And I think my phone is always going to have better/easier to use/more up to date apps than iDrive ever will.

Jacking around with a smartphone is a good way to get in an accident. This is statistically verifiable. Give me color turn-by-turn directions in the HUD, any day.

Originally Posted by SamS

Jacking around with a smartphone is a good way to get in an accident. This is statistically verifiable. Give me color turn-by-turn directions in the HUD, any day.

Good point, and if California is a sign eventually it will be illegal to jack around with a phone while in the car at all.

Originally Posted by jocamryn

I'm the original owner. But yes, even on the new car lot, I'd pass over an F30 not equipped with NAVI or HUD.

My local dealership has about 15x2013 F30s and 20x2013 5 series (give and take) of all variants.

Approx 75% of the F30s and 50% of the 5 series do not come with NAV.

Approx 50% of F30s come with leatherette.

Approx 95% of the F30s and 75% of the 5 series do not come with the upgraded stereo.

I asked the CA and he said the most asked and popular option for my region is the heated seats, believe it or not. There are perhaps "nice to have" options but I dont think there are any "must have" options.

Originally Posted by kqf30

My local dealership has about 15x2013 F30s and 20x2013 5 series (give and take) of all variants.

Approx 75% of the F30s and 50% of the 5 series do not come with NAV.

Approx 50% of F30s come with leatherette.

Approx 95% of the F30s and 75% of the 5 series do not come with the upgraded stereo.

I asked the CA and he said the most asked and popular option for my region is the heated seats, believe it or not. There are perhaps "nice to have" options but I dont think there are any "must have" options.

But you neglected to break out 335i vs. 328i. Those buyers, both new and used, have different priorities. In other words, either a 335i or a 535i without Nav will be much less common, as well as much less desirable to potential buyers.

Originally Posted by kqf30

My local dealership has about 15x2013 F30s and 20x2013 5 series (give and take) of all variants.

Approx 75% of the F30s and 50% of the 5 series do not come with NAV.

Approx 50% of F30s come with leatherette.

Approx 95% of the F30s and 75% of the 5 series do not come with the upgraded stereo.

I asked the CA and he said the most asked and popular option for my region is the heated seats, believe it or not. There are perhaps "nice to have" options but I dont think there are any "must have" options.

What area of the country are you in?
Also in my experience CA do not know what's in all of the cars to that specificity, they (like most human beings) go with their experience. If that week he drove 4 - 5 series and 2 had and 2 didn't he expanded that vision. With the exception of MT, that they all know. Just my $.02

Originally Posted by SamS

But you neglected to break out 335i vs. 328i. Those buyers, both new and used, have different priorities. In other words, either a 335i or a 535i without Nav will be much less common, as well as much less desirable to potential buyers.

+1

I also think that if you looked at it 5 years ago the number of NAV systems proliferation was lower. With that in mind the commonality is going up. If you extend that to 5 years down the line (again resale value) it will be even more expected since more and more new cars will have it standard.

Well I cannot tell you the exact science or statistics but I would think that each dealership knows what sells or doesn't sell in their market so that they would order their cars accordingly.

For ex: I went to several local BMW and Mercedes dealerships and the most popular colors on their lot are : WHITE, SILVER, BLACK. Why is that?

Because the local dealerships know those are the most requested/popular colors so they order them accordingly. The same logic would apply to options as well.

Originally Posted by kqf30

Well I cannot tell you the exact science or statistics but I would think that each dealership knows what sells or doesn't sell in their market so that they would order their cars accordingly.

For ex: I went to several local BMW and Mercedes dealerships and the most popular colors on their lot are : WHITE, SILVER, BLACK. Why is that?

Because the local dealerships know those are the most requested/popular colors so they order them accordingly. The same logic would apply to options as well.

Exactly. Which is why you'll rarely (never?) see a 335i on the lot without Navigation/Premium package.

Originally Posted by SamS

Exactly. Which is why you'll rarely (never?) see a 335i on the lot without Navigation/Premium package.

3 of the 4 335s that I saw didn't have a NAV, including the 335XDRIVE MSPORT that I bought.

1 out of 2 5series dont come with NAV, and people were buying those as well.

Not everyone wants a $2000-$3000 NAV in their car, and not because of costs.

Originally Posted by kqf30

Well I cannot tell you the exact science or statistics but I would think that each dealership knows what sells or doesn't sell in their market so that they would order their cars accordingly.

For ex: I went to several local BMW and Mercedes dealerships and the most popular colors on their lot are : WHITE, SILVER, BLACK. Why is that?

Because the local dealerships know those are the most requested/popular colors so they order them accordingly. The same logic would apply to options as well.

That is a world wide. I know that and I am not working at your local dealership.

BTW - what area of the country are you in?

Originally Posted by SamS

But you neglected to break out 335i vs. 328i. Those buyers, both new and used, have different priorities. In other words, either a 335i or a 535i without Nav will be much less common, as well as much less desirable to potential buyers.

In my experience, the opposite has been true. I have yet to see an F30 335, and maybe 2 or 3 E90s, equipped w/ nav. OTOH, nearly all of the F30 328s I have seen have nav. It seems that many spring for the bigger engine w/ less options to keep costs down, while 328 owners add many options onto a lower base cost. This has been true in the last 3 states I've lived in (FL, GA, and VA). Must be different where you live.

U S of A.

Originally Posted by The BMW-est

In my experience, the opposite has been true. I have yet to see an F30 335, and maybe 2 or 3 E90s, equipped w/ nav. OTOH, nearly all of the F30 328s I have seen have nav. It seems that many spring for the bigger engine w/ less options to keep costs down, while 328 owners add many options onto a lower base cost. This has been true in the last 3 states I've lived in (FL, GA, and VA). Must be different where you live.

And I have seen the opposite in the last 3 states I have lived - FL, CA, TX.

I also believe where you live makes a big difference. For example in Miami where addresses use a mathimatical grid system a NAV has very limited use where in LA and San Francisco... it has great usage. To each his own.

Originally Posted by kqf30

U S of A.

Thanks for being very helpful. I asked not because I actually care where you live but wondered if the above applied to your area.

I no longer care about this discussion so unsubscribing!

Good luck guys enjoy your F30's. Looks like the new F32 is a beauty! I may actually downsize next time.

Originally Posted by The BMW-est

In my experience, the opposite has been true. I have yet to see an F30 335, and maybe 2 or 3 E90s, equipped w/ nav. OTOH, nearly all of the F30 328s I have seen have nav. It seems that many spring for the bigger engine w/ less options to keep costs down, while 328 owners add many options onto a lower base cost. This has been true in the last 3 states I've lived in (FL, GA, and VA). Must be different where you live.

Let's use real metrics, not subjective estimates.

Of the 816 2012/2013 F30 335i models listed as "new cars" on cars.com, all but ~50 of them come with Navigation. I did some checking with their VINs, bumped up against bmwvin.com which indicates option code S609A (Professional Navigation).

cars.com is a pretty thorough inventory of cars available on dealer lots, across the country.

Originally Posted by miamiboyca

Good point, and if California is a sign eventually it will be illegal to jack around with a phone while in the car at all.

I have an iphone 5, so it does vocal turn by turn. If I'm using the Garmin or the phone, I'm either programming it before I'm moving with my destination in mind, or my wife does it. But this is specific to my circumstance- If I was a travelling salesman I suppose it would be a bit different.

Originally Posted by SamS

Let's use real metrics, not subjective estimates.

Of the 816 2012/2013 F30 335i models listed as "new cars" on cars.com, all but ~50 of them come with Navigation. I did some checking with their VINs, bumped up against bmwvin.com which indicates option code S609A (Professional Navigation).

cars.com is a pretty thorough inventory of cars available on dealer lots, across the country.

Statistics can be used to prove anything - 73% of all people know that. Did you apply this research to the 328i as well? I can imagine that the results may be somewhat skewed between people that order vice what is available on the lot, being that the 328 is the volume seller. Curious to see the objective interwebs analysis.

Originally Posted by The BMW-est

Statistics can be used to prove anything - 73% of all people know that. Did you apply this research to the 328i as well? I can imagine that the results may be somewhat skewed between people that order vice what is available on the lot, being that the 328 is the volume seller. Curious to see the objective interwebs analysis.

I don't care about the 328i. I'm sure the percentage of Nav will be lower. I was offering empirical evidence to support my claim that 335i cars without Nav are rare, because they are less desirable and harder to sell. You have evidence to the contrary?

Originally Posted by SamS

I don't care about the 328i. I'm sure the percentage of Nav will be lower. I was offering empirical evidence to support my claim that 335i cars without Nav are rare, because they are less desirable and harder to sell. You have evidence to the contrary?

So if you don't care about the 328, how are you qualified to make broad empirical assumptions on the priorities of buyers without "real metrics?" I'll just stick to my subjective analysis, since it is at least based on real-world observations. The 3 series is as common as the Honda Accord in most places I've lived so I'm basing conclusions on a large sample.