Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > Everything Else > Off-Topic

Off-Topic
Everything not about BMWs. Posts must be "primetime safe" and in good taste. No personal attacks allowed. Political posting is restricted to the Political Science forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-19-2013, 02:45 AM
stylinexpat's Avatar
stylinexpat stylinexpat is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Between California and Asia
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 17,982
Mein Auto: 2009 M3
Gulfstream G650

Must be nice for some to be rich and enjoy this luxury. I would love to have one of these.

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/the-w...wZgl7QY2A.html
__________________
2009 M3
130i Sold
330ZHP Sold
330 Coupe Sold
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 11-19-2013, 04:58 AM
dtkw's Avatar
dtkw dtkw is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indiana
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,392
Mein Auto: 740iL
Nice, I flew in a Gulfstream before, but it was nothing like this one, it was owned by the US Air Force. I was with my boss W. Casey. But it was considered as luxury back then, and the seats were very comfy.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-19-2013, 05:35 AM
cwsqbm's Avatar
cwsqbm cwsqbm is offline
Dreaming of Track Days
Location: Somewhere in the aether
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,041
Mein Auto: ED'd 330Ci / E30 325i
Video didn't play for me, but I've known about that jet for years. What's interesting is the bidding war among the mega-rich to get closer to the front of the line and what Gulfstream is trying to do to stop it. You'd think they were bidding over Bieber tickets for their kids.
Quote:
link
Gulfstream Moves To Stop G650 Market Speculation

Gulfstream has taken extraordinary measures to prevent speculation in the market for its flagship G650 long-range big cabin business jet. As we reported in October, an early position holder of the $65 million aircraft, Formula One luminary Bernie Ecclestone, sold his almost-new G650 at a $7 million premium to the owner of a soccer team. According to NBC, there have been a few deals since and a few more are pending and Gulfstream has had to plug loopholes in its sales agreements to prevent the aircraft from being sold before they're actually delivered. "Customers cannot sell the aircraft before they've physically taken delivery of it. This prevents speculation, which isn't good for the market," Gulfstream told the network.

Some would-be speculators tried to get around the policy by setting up dummy companies to buy the jets and then selling the company to a new buyer, effectively transferring ownership of the future order. Gulfstream has quashed that gambit by requiring the person who signs the sales contract to be personally involved in the final delivery of the aircraft. Oprah Winfrey and Ralph Lauren are among those drumming their fingers waiting for a G650, according to NBC.
__________________
.................................................. ............................................. Space for rent .................................................. ..........................................
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-19-2013, 06:47 AM
FIA's Avatar
FIA FIA is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Mid West
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 458
Mein Auto: BMW 530i
Crash during testing. They were practicing low speed take offs.


__________________
 photo c92dd7f4-65f8-461f-a1d5-8ae9271d9f7a_zpse0cb9c9d.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-19-2013, 09:08 AM
MOAB's Avatar
MOAB MOAB is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 516
Mein Auto: Porsche
a good friend of mine has a Lear 45. Flying private is definitely the creme de la creme. Op costs associated with having a jet are steep. You have to pay the pilot and co-pilot regardless of whether you are using the plane, although you can charter it out.
__________________
2009 997.2 C4S (PDK, akrapovic slip-on exhaust)
2000 323 (the ultimate winter beater!!!)

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-19-2013, 10:02 AM
Sportsdad's Avatar
Sportsdad Sportsdad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Between chaos and madness
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,093
Mein Auto: 4Runner-BMW
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIA View Post
Crash during testing. They were practicing low speed take offs.


It was a bit more than just low speed, it was what the computer ALLOWED the pilot in constraints of what the computer deems 'safe' paramenters based on the AoA.

One of the great things about Boeing's concept regarding computers and pilots is that they allow the engines to give you something like 115% rated power when fire-walled. The idea being if you're about to die, who cares about damaging an engine necessitating a
change out.

GS, like Airbus , only allows the pilot put the 'thrust request lever' all the way forward, but the airplane will only give you the maximum power it computes for the conditions that is safe for the engine, not the passengers.

Just one of many reasons why "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!"

Last edited by Sportsdad; 11-19-2013 at 10:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-21-2013, 11:00 AM
mark_m5's Avatar
mark_m5 mark_m5 is offline
Overly Intellectual
Location: Where the money is.
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,263
Mein Auto: 2002 M5, 1999 M Roadster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportsdad View Post
It was a bit more than just low speed, it was what the computer ALLOWED the pilot in constraints of what the computer deems 'safe' paramenters based on the AoA.

One of the great things about Boeing's concept regarding computers and pilots is that they allow the engines to give you something like 115% rated power when fire-walled. The idea being if you're about to die, who cares about damaging an engine necessitating a
change out.

GS, like Airbus , only allows the pilot put the 'thrust request lever' all the way forward, but the airplane will only give you the maximum power it computes for the conditions that is safe for the engine, not the passengers.

Just one of many reasons why "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!"
Good to know!
__________________
Mark
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-21-2013, 01:05 PM
FIA's Avatar
FIA FIA is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Mid West
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 458
Mein Auto: BMW 530i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportsdad View Post
It was a bit more than just low speed, it was what the computer ALLOWED the pilot in constraints of what the computer deems 'safe' paramenters based on the AoA.

One of the great things about Boeing's concept regarding computers and pilots is that they allow the engines to give you something like 115% rated power when fire-walled. The idea being if you're about to die, who cares about damaging an engine necessitating a
change out.

GS, like Airbus , only allows the pilot put the 'thrust request lever' all the way forward, but the airplane will only give you the maximum power it computes for the conditions that is safe for the engine, not the passengers.

Just one of many reasons why "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!"

Actually this was a bit different. They were testing single engine failure take offs and the engineers provided to aggressive data for the pilots to use. Previous attempts had shown problems with right wing dip at take off but the engineers ignored this problem and pushed the envelope even further. The crash aircraft experienced a right wing dip event at take off with a subsequent stall and loss of control event.

They didn't have a chance.
__________________
 photo c92dd7f4-65f8-461f-a1d5-8ae9271d9f7a_zpse0cb9c9d.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-21-2013, 02:56 PM
SippinSomethin's Avatar
SippinSomethin SippinSomethin is offline
Bossin' hard
Location: Texas
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 361
Mein Auto: 2003 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIA View Post
Crash during testing. They were practicing low speed take offs.


Dang! Thats not good. Why practice low speed takeoff's ?? Why would you ever want to take off at low speed..
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-21-2013, 02:59 PM
FIA's Avatar
FIA FIA is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Mid West
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 458
Mein Auto: BMW 530i
Quote:
Originally Posted by SippinSomethin View Post
Dang! Thats not good. Why practice low speed takeoff's ?? Why would you ever want to take off at low speed..
It was part of the certification process. These were test pilots for the manufacture.
__________________
 photo c92dd7f4-65f8-461f-a1d5-8ae9271d9f7a_zpse0cb9c9d.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-21-2013, 08:28 PM
stylinexpat's Avatar
stylinexpat stylinexpat is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Between California and Asia
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 17,982
Mein Auto: 2009 M3
Gulfstream G650

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwsqbm View Post
Video didn't play for me, but I've known about that jet for years. What's interesting is the bidding war among the mega-rich to get closer to the front of the line and what Gulfstream is trying to do to stop it. You'd think they were bidding over Bieber tickets for their kids.
I am not getting into a bidding war with the rich. Let them try and out bid themselves. I could not even afford to make the lowest bid lol.. I had to make payments on my M3 and that took two years to pay off.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
2009 M3
130i Sold
330ZHP Sold
330 Coupe Sold
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-21-2013, 10:12 PM
SippinSomethin's Avatar
SippinSomethin SippinSomethin is offline
Bossin' hard
Location: Texas
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 361
Mein Auto: 2003 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIA View Post
It was part of the certification process. These were test pilots for the manufacture.
Ahh.. got ya.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-21-2013, 10:25 PM
///Mariani ///Mariani is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Georgia
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 248
Mein Auto: 05 E60 545i, 84 E30 318i
Woudlnt be worth having unless unless you could have GulfStream Girl as your pilot.

__________________
(OO=[][]=OO) i ///M Fan
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-21-2013, 10:36 PM
stylinexpat's Avatar
stylinexpat stylinexpat is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Between California and Asia
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 17,982
Mein Auto: 2009 M3
Re: Gulfstream G650

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mariani View Post
Woudlnt be worth having unless unless you could have GulfStream Girl as your pilot.

That would be nice and a couple more for in flight service and entertainment

Sent from my SM-N9005 using BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
2009 M3
130i Sold
330ZHP Sold
330 Coupe Sold
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-21-2013, 10:36 PM
SippinSomethin's Avatar
SippinSomethin SippinSomethin is offline
Bossin' hard
Location: Texas
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 361
Mein Auto: 2003 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mariani View Post
Woudlnt be worth having unless unless you could have GulfStream Girl as your pilot.

Good point. Waste of money without her. Plain and simple.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-21-2013, 10:49 PM
MatWiz's Avatar
MatWiz MatWiz is offline
Psychology Reversalist
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,335
Mein Auto: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mariani View Post

This girl reminds me of a woman I once saw on the highway around Wash DC. I was driving a minivan and she was in a car to my right side. I looked and saw her at the same time she looked at me. I was immediately stunned and shocked by how beautiful she was and she gave me a beaming smile. I almost fell off my car she was so stunning + her smile. Blond like this girl, very similar, white uniform. Only that she was maybe about x10 more beautiful than the one in this picture. It was maybe 10-15 years ago and I still remember. One of the most beautiful women I have ever seen in my life. Amazing.
__________________
MatWiz
"Seeing is not believing. Believing is seeing." -Judy the Elf
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-22-2013, 08:34 AM
JonM's Avatar
JonM JonM is offline
Moderator
Location: Charleston, SC
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,970
Mein Auto: 01 Mc, 08 M3, Motorrad x2
Steven Udvar-Hazy came to visit our factory in Charleston in his G650. He had just picked it up from the Savannah completion center. We showed him our airplanes and he showed us his. I liked his better!
__________________
Jon Maddux

14 R1200RT | 10 S1000RR | 09 F650GS | 08 E90 M3 | 06 M Coupe | 01 M coupe
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-22-2013, 04:23 PM
stylinexpat's Avatar
stylinexpat stylinexpat is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Between California and Asia
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 17,982
Mein Auto: 2009 M3
Re: Gulfstream G650

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonM View Post
Steven Udvar-Hazy came to visit our factory in Charleston in his G650. He had just picked it up from the Savannah completion center. We showed him our airplanes and he showed us his. I liked his better!
Hard not to like that plane. Lucky him.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
2009 M3
130i Sold
330ZHP Sold
330 Coupe Sold
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-22-2013, 04:30 PM
Dave 330i's Avatar
Dave 330i Dave 330i is offline
The King of Common Sense
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 92
Send a message via Skype™ to Dave 330i
Mein Auto:
Is there a Groupon discount coupon somewhere, 50% off? Otherwise, I will have to wait until the stock market hits 50,000
__________________
Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. Albert Einstein

Swim upstream. Go the other way. Ignore the conventional wisdom. If everybody is doing it one way, there’s a good chance you can find your niche by going exactly in the opposite direction", Sam Walton.

Last edited by Dave 330i; 11-22-2013 at 04:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-22-2013, 09:15 PM
stylinexpat's Avatar
stylinexpat stylinexpat is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Between California and Asia
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 17,982
Mein Auto: 2009 M3
Re: Gulfstream G650

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 330i View Post
Is there a Groupon discount coupon somewhere, 50% off? Otherwise, I will have to wait until the stock market hits 50,000
Just ask Yellen to increase QE to 250 Billion per month and then you should see your DOW 50,000

Sent from my SM-N9005 using BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
2009 M3
130i Sold
330ZHP Sold
330 Coupe Sold
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-23-2013, 09:59 AM
gjwilson's Avatar
gjwilson gjwilson is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 946
Mein Auto: 325i/X5 4.8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportsdad View Post
It was a bit more than just low speed, it was what the computer ALLOWED the pilot in constraints of what the computer deems 'safe' paramenters based on the AoA.

One of the great things about Boeing's concept regarding computers and pilots is that they allow the engines to give you something like 115% rated power when fire-walled. The idea being if you're about to die, who cares about damaging an engine necessitating a
change out.

GS, like Airbus , only allows the pilot put the 'thrust request lever' all the way forward, but the airplane will only give you the maximum power it computes for the conditions that is safe for the engine, not the passengers.

Just one of many reasons why "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!"
In a twin engine airplane, the nightmare scenario is to lose an engine while low and slow with the other engine at max thrust (or higher). if things were bad before, they just got monumentally worse and you are definitely going to die.

To understand if the 115% power is really "buying" you anything you really have to know what the engines are rated at and why and how the computer determines "safe" for the plane. It could be that you really aren't getting more any power from the Boeing engine at 115% of rated vs the GS at 100% if the Boeings are rated less and generally operated closer to the max. There is a bit of dicking around with max rated power specs and identical engines (or near identical) can have equivalent power capabilities but different power ratings.

Note, according to poster at : http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ad.main/24498/

Quote:
Some airline deliberates derate their engines if under normal operations they do not need such powerful engines. This saves on wear and tear and of course saves money and maintenance. They do this with a software alteration in the aircraft. They then have the option of increasing the thrust again at a later stage if they need to.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-23-2013, 10:18 AM
gjwilson's Avatar
gjwilson gjwilson is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 946
Mein Auto: 325i/X5 4.8
Quote:
Originally Posted by SippinSomethin View Post
Dang! Thats not good. Why practice low speed takeoff's ?? Why would you ever want to take off at low speed..
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIA View Post
It was part of the certification process. These were test pilots for the manufacture.
Not just part of the "certification process" but to establish the limits for pilots to fly the plane.

Many limits are "demonstrated" limits in that the plane may be able to exceed those limits. For example, the crosswind limit is technically the Maximum Demonstrated Crosswind limit and it reflects the crosswind component that the test pilot was able to land the plane in. It might be possible to land the plane in a higher crosswind (but don't count on exceeding a "max demonstrated spec since the guy who demonstrated this had a great deal of experience and a new aircraft engine running perfectly new tires etc etc).

The question still remains, "Why would they need to establish that low speed take-offs are possible?". I'm not sure about flying Bizjet aircraft but on smaller planes different takeoff techniques are employed depending on runway conditions. For example, when taking off from a "soft field", i.e. grass or gravel strip, you apply power with the control column back to keep the nose wheel up. You lower pressure a bit as you accelerate to avoid taking off too early, but still let the plane get up in the air sooner and at a lower airspeed than normal. Then you lower the nose and essentially "level off" and accelerate while only a few feet off the ground. The airplane is actually flying at a lower airspeed than it would normally be possible due to what's called "ground effect".

Why would you want to do this on soft fields? Well, grass has a lot more friction and so acceleration is reduced and takeoff distance increased. You want to get the wheels off the ground so you can accelerate to normal flying speed faster. Also, gravel strips can kick up stones which damage the aircraft (stones can nick propellors and can cause problems when ingested into jet engines). So you want to stop the tires from picking up stones and throwing them in the air.

Last edited by gjwilson; 11-23-2013 at 10:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-23-2013, 02:32 PM
SippinSomethin's Avatar
SippinSomethin SippinSomethin is offline
Bossin' hard
Location: Texas
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 361
Mein Auto: 2003 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjwilson View Post
Not just part of the "certification process" but to establish the limits for pilots to fly the plane.

Many limits are "demonstrated" limits in that the plane may be able to exceed those limits. For example, the crosswind limit is technically the Maximum Demonstrated Crosswind limit and it reflects the crosswind component that the test pilot was able to land the plane in. It might be possible to land the plane in a higher crosswind (but don't count on exceeding a "max demonstrated spec since the guy who demonstrated this had a great deal of experience and a new aircraft engine running perfectly new tires etc etc).

The question still remains, "Why would they need to establish that low speed take-offs are possible?". I'm not sure about flying Bizjet aircraft but on smaller planes different takeoff techniques are employed depending on runway conditions. For example, when taking off from a "soft field", i.e. grass or gravel strip, you apply power with the control column back to keep the nose wheel up. You lower pressure a bit as you accelerate to avoid taking off too early, but still let the plane get up in the air sooner and at a lower airspeed than normal. Then you lower the nose and essentially "level off" and accelerate while only a few feet off the ground. The airplane is actually flying at a lower airspeed than it would normally be possible due to what's called "ground effect".

Why would you want to do this on soft fields? Well, grass has a lot more friction and so acceleration is reduced and takeoff distance increased. You want to get the wheels off the ground so you can accelerate to normal flying speed faster. Also, gravel strips can kick up stones which damage the aircraft (stones can nick propellors and can cause problems when ingested into jet engines). So you want to stop the tires from picking up stones and throwing them in the air.
Thanks for the explanation. That's some interesting stuff! I take it you fly?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-24-2013, 05:09 AM
gjwilson's Avatar
gjwilson gjwilson is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 946
Mein Auto: 325i/X5 4.8
Quote:
Originally Posted by SippinSomethin View Post
Thanks for the explanation. That's some interesting stuff! I take it you fly?
Not professionally, though I have a Commercial Pilot Rating and recently got my Instrument Flight Rules Rating.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-24-2013, 09:21 AM
SippinSomethin's Avatar
SippinSomethin SippinSomethin is offline
Bossin' hard
Location: Texas
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 361
Mein Auto: 2003 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjwilson View Post
Not professionally, though I have a Commercial Pilot Rating and recently got my Instrument Flight Rules Rating.
Nice I want to get my license when i'm out of school. Their is a little strip a few miles from my house that does a cool deal, where you can fly for an hour for $100.
That would get expensive after awhile but definitely would be cool!
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > Everything Else > Off-Topic
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms