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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 10-28-2012, 08:10 AM
Doktor Bert's Avatar
Doktor Bert Doktor Bert is offline
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New Member with E34 problems:

Greetings,

New to forum, but have spent decades in restoration of antique racing cars, as a machinist and technician. I currently work on mostly private collector vehicles, and those owned by friends. At present, I do a lot of work on late (BMW) Rolls-Royce. I am a problem solver if you will - I am given the strange and difficult problems.

This brings me to discuss a problem with my friend's E34, a 12/1994 production 525i.

The car was bought in non-running condition with only 100,000 miles on it. Every shop in the area has worked on the car and given up on it. When I was asked to look at it, I found the following:

Interior of car is mostly in the trunk. Car is full of Alldata wire diagrams and pages printed from BMW forums, some 2 years old.

Turn key and engine does not crank. No signal to starter motor. Fuel pump comes on and pressure is available at the rail. Power is switching at the back of the ignition switch, so I suspect a problem with EWS. I decide to move on to making the simple things work inside the car and then see where we are.

The OBC was reading PPPPP and I immediately knew there was a power supply problem. I found a blown #1 fuse, and a poorly fitting #7 and #20 fuses, which I replaced. Also found loose ground at base of steering column, which I repaired as well.

I was then able to set the time/date on the OBC and even enter the alarm code.

Next, I opened the GM and repaired several cold solder joints which gave me power seat function on both sides.

Wipers work only on high speed and will not park, but the usual cause of this, a blown 7.5 amp fuse under the rear seat, was intact. Further inspection of the wire loom running along the LH trunk hinge revealed (20 bare wires, not touching, and yet still intact, so I think we are OK in this area, at least for now anyways. While I was back there, I collected all the change, about $5.00 USD and purchased a beer. This not only makes the mechanic happy, but keeps change from falling into the fuse boxes.

Power windows and locks do not function, which led me to suspect a bad ZKE/ZKL module.

Upon further inspection, here is what I found:

I could not locate either the EWS or Immobilization Relay anywhere. I must suspect they have been removed.

I could not locate a ZKE/ZKL, so I believe this is controlled through the GM under the back seat, which could be faulty.

I have found spare GM's and EWS's online, but I want to be sure I am barking up the right tree.

With a 12/1994 production date, this should be a EWS and not an EWSI system, am I correct???

Any advice, of course, would be appreciated,

Tschüß

Last edited by Doktor Bert; 10-28-2012 at 08:16 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-28-2012, 09:15 AM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Usually for our beloved E34s, the common no-start problems are always the fuel pump, its relay, and the crankshaft position sensor. The uncommon ones would be the EWS system, a bad dme relay, a bad dme and a busted starter.

The downloadable bentley manual for E34s (please google for the links) and the stickies at the top of these forums would be a good place to check on this as well..

There is a giant thread on bypassing the EWS system here. Please search on the fest's internal search engine for the thread. It may prove useful if the ews system is indeed the culprit.



rgds,
Roberto
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  #3  
Old 10-28-2012, 09:19 AM
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Thanks, Robert....

In my case, the issue is no impulse to the starter, but I have an impulse leaving the ignition switch. The starter will crank if jumped with an external 12VDC source.

My question, at least at this point is:

1. Does the 12/1994 E34 have an EWS unit and is it EWS or EWSI????

2. Since I cannot locate the EWS or the Immobilization relay, can someone supply me with photos of the connectors so I can locate them???

Keep in mind this car is totally disassembled by previous techs and I am getting in on the tail end of the project, so no telling what could be missing...

Tschüß
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  #4  
Old 10-28-2012, 09:39 AM
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Any photos or links to them showing the EWS connector, etc., would be welcome!!!!!!
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  #5  
Old 10-28-2012, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktor Bert View Post
Thanks, Robert....

In my case, the issue is no impulse to the starter, but I have an impulse leaving the ignition switch. The starter will crank if jumped with an external 12VDC source.

My question, at least at this point is:

1. Does the 12/1994 E34 have an EWS unit and is it EWS or EWSI????

2. Since I cannot locate the EWS or the Immobilization relay, can someone supply me with photos of the connectors so I can locate them???

Keep in mind this car is totally disassembled by previous techs and I am getting in on the tail end of the project, so no telling what could be missing...

Tschüß
Hello and welcome to the fest , I just dealt with the unusual ews2 failure , and to my knowledege ews2 did not start till January or febuary of 1995 which mine was a production date of 2/95 , with that said sounds like you have a bad DME and it controls spark and fuel . I would first look and find out if your DME is a red or silver label . That way we can determine if you are dealing with a ews2 or not . And yes the ews2 is the gatekeeper for power source to all the running functions of the vehicle .

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  #6  
Old 10-28-2012, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supertech777 View Post
Hello and welcome to the fest , I just dealt with the unusual ews2 failure , and to my knowledege ews2 did not start till January or febuary of 1995 which mine was a production date of 2/95 , with that said sounds like you have a bad DME and it controls spark and fuel . I would first look and find out if your DME is a red or silver label . That way we can determine if you are dealing with a ews2 or not . And yes the ews2 is the gatekeeper for power source to all the running functions of the vehicle .

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From what I have found, this car has the 'early' EWS (no suffix) system. I agree with your conclusion about the DME, but my problem is no impulse to the starter, and that, I do believe, is an EWS function, no????
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  #7  
Old 10-28-2012, 10:09 AM
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Hello Bert. It does sound like you are likely dealing with an EWS issue. Here is a good resource about the EWS system. I hope it helps.

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/BMW_EWS.pdf

I'm not too familiar with the EWS I (which I believe you have). I had to learn about the EWS II when my DME went out on my 95 325is. Long story. Anyway, I hope this resource helps you solve your problem.
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Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #8  
Old 10-28-2012, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR_LVR View Post
Hello Bert. It does sound like you are likely dealing with an EWS issue. Here is a good resource about the EWS system. I hope it helps.

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/BMW_EWS.pdf

I'm not too familiar with the EWS I (which I believe you have). I had to learn about the EWS II when my DME went out on my 95 325is. Long story. Anyway, I hope this resource helps you solve your problem.
Thank you for the response,

I am familiar with that data you posted. At this point, I think the EWS has been robbed out of the car since I cannot find it or the immobilization relay. I am hoping someone could post photos of their connectors so I can at least verify the wiring hasn't been cut.

This car is a nitemare!!!
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  #9  
Old 10-28-2012, 10:52 AM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Hi Doc,

This thread will contain links that may be relevant in the very first post itself :

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=536505

The primary link embedded within there that I'd like you to look at would be :

http://qcwo.com/technicaldomain/ews-deletion-chip

The dude who runs the site does respond to emails and may be very helpful here.

That's if this is an EWS issue of some sort.

I believe you'll be able to find information pertaining to wiring etc from the above links.

www.realoem.com is a great resource if you wish to know precisely what's in the exact car that you have in front of you. Just punch in the vin number and you've got it all. It sounds like you might need to refer to this at some

Good luck.


rgds,
Roberto
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  #10  
Old 10-28-2012, 10:56 AM
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Thanks!!!!!

I am still unable to find the EWS, so I must assume it has been removed.....
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:14 AM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Take a look at the forum printouts from car forums that you found in the car. There might be relevant clues about what the previous owner was struggling with there.

If your EWS system has been removed, your dme needs to have its need for EWS verification removed. This can be done via an ews delete chip, which I recommend because these chips come with boosted maps and you're getting a performance upgrade as well..and they can be purchased for like $40-$50 on ebay. If not, you can use a non-ews dme from another 525 and it will work as well. These are called "red label dmes" for short and are sold on ebay for anything from $50-$80. They can also be resold easily for the same price, so its good to have one as insurance in any case and I recommend that in general.

That might be all that you have to do sir.
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  #12  
Old 10-28-2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertobaggio20 View Post
Take a look at the forum printouts from car forums that you found in the car. There might be relevant clues about what the previous owner was struggling with there.
They were miles away....
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  #13  
Old 10-28-2012, 11:31 AM
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As far as ews systems there should be a yellow junction on the left hand knee bolster .

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  #14  
Old 10-28-2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supertech777 View Post
As far as ews systems there should be a yellow junction on the left hand knee bolster .

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Great information,

No yellow connectors in that area thus far. Found the cruise control unit though.

perhaps this 'Red Lable' DME would be a good way to go....?????
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktor Bert View Post
Great information,

No yellow connectors in that area thus far. Found the cruise control unit though.

perhaps this 'Red Lable' DME would be a good way to go....?????
It would be a good way to go , but you still have to find the starter wires and splice them together . Do you have the capability to take a clear digital photo of the drivers side knee bolster with out the cover ? and perhaps we could sort it out that way .

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Last edited by supertech777; 10-28-2012 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:02 PM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Originally Posted by supertech777 View Post
It would be a good way to go , but you still have to find the starter wires and splice them together . Do you have the capability to take a clear digital photo of the drivers side knee bolster with out the cover ? and perhaps we could sort it out that way .

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Sir is this necessary ? Ive not read about this being needed in ews delete projects. Disable the system and use an ews delete chip or a red label dme, those were the only steps.
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:36 PM
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Sir is this necessary ? Ive not read about this being needed in ews delete projects. Disable the system and use an ews delete chip or a red label dme, those were the only steps.
Dear Roberto , that's why I wanted him to check and make sure first what kind of DME he has , is it silver or Red . If it is silver then he has the ews2 and if its red he doesn't , what I understood is that ews2 started either January or February of 1995 production date . And his is a 1994 production date , late 94 which makes his a 95 but not late enough for a 95 production code which entails having an ews2 system . The delete chip worked for me because I have a February 95 production code and a silver DME . But regardless he does not have power to his starter which I suspect being a bad dme , and in that tolken if he is going to any of the 2 routes he still has to splice the starter power that leads to the ignition switch . I hope that makes sense . Steve feel free to correct me if I am wrong or missed a step . Hard to diagnose a vehicle that already has been butchered in the first place

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Old 10-28-2012, 09:10 PM
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I will look at the underdash in greater detail tomorrow. Thanks for the postings!!!!
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:37 PM
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UPDATE:

As a recap, I have been given the tail-end of many other shop's efforts to get this car running. Recently, I picked up a 'Red Label - 413' DME from a 1994 525 and installed it into this 12/1994 525, replacing the stock 'Silver Label' unit.

A quick test results in a crank but no start condition.

Of course, I will begin by checking pin-by-pin to confirm I have DME voltage input and I will check for cam/crank angle signal, but are there any other things I might have missed????

Thanks!!!!!
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktor Bert View Post
UPDATE:

As a recap, I have been given the tail-end of many other shop's efforts to get this car running. Recently, I picked up a 'Red Label - 413' DME from a 1994 525 and installed it into this 12/1994 525, replacing the stock 'Silver Label' unit.

A quick test results in a crank but no start condition.

Of course, I will begin by checking pin-by-pin to confirm I have DME voltage input and I will check for cam/crank angle signal, but are there any other things I might have missed????

Thanks!!!!!
If the problem is your EWS or DME, then you have to do the wiring modification as well. Just putting in the red label DME will not work. I have a thread about it that you can refer to, but my instructions were for a 325.

Noel, (Supertech777) has done the swap on his 525. Maybe shoot him a PM. I'm sure he'd be glad to go over the minute differences with you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #21  
Old 01-09-2013, 12:54 PM
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Doctor,

The silver label means you had an EWS. The red label (as i have, production 09/94 as a 95 model) is non-EWS. I think there is more to it than swapping out DMEs. There may still be something, prohibiting the power to the starter even without the silver label DME. just as starter got no power even with missing EWS fuses and relays... We need to examine in more detail the actual processes and funtion of EWS to get over all of it.

EDIT: Steve!! I see you beat me!! I was busy reading the thread
Joe: 1 Steve: 2

Doctor, Steve (BMR_LVR) is the guy for this. so is Noel (Supertech777). Damn fine gentlemen
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Last edited by Monsignor; 01-09-2013 at 12:59 PM.
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  #22  
Old 01-09-2013, 12:58 PM
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Where is the EWS module on this 12/1994 525i????

The entire dash is out and there is NO yellow connector anywhere near the steering column. I also found nothing behind the glovebox.
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Last edited by Doktor Bert; 01-09-2013 at 01:05 PM.
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  #23  
Old 01-09-2013, 01:49 PM
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Ok,

Cut Light Green wire #7 at X20 connector and car starts and runs. However, I still have to jump the connections at the starter to get it to crank. Any tips on how to get the starter to crank via the key????
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:12 PM
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On the ews2 junction to big wires have to be spliced together in order to have juice flowing from the ignition switch to the starter . If memory serves me right its pin 1 and 3 big fat wires .. I have a right up on it here somewhere , Steve made me make one ...

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Old 01-09-2013, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supertech777 View Post
On the ews2 junction to big wires have to be spliced together in order to have juice flowing from the ignition switch to the starter . If memory serves me right its pin 1 and 3 big fat wires .. I have a right up on it here somewhere , Steve made me make one ...

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I cannot find it!!!!!! HELP!!!!
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