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  #26  
Old 11-01-2012, 03:31 PM
ard ard is offline
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I'd get my money back, but then I am a tenacious dick.

You may need an atty, in the end.

You could try it without an atty, just via a letter, and see what happens. I am sitting here thinking about how I;d approach it:

Summarize the situation; (I signed a non-binding agreement (as the contract is defective since it is incomplete, and even if sufficient it is is non-binding by law since there will be financing); you purchased my used car and kept the proceeds as a deposit)
propose what you want; (I want a car with XYZ)
state what will happen in you dont get it (I am not inclined to consider the loan documents under the current situation)
As a result, you can either return the deposit or my old car. Should they agree to a new order, they should let you know in 48 hours as you are placing an order for a new car elsewhere at that time.

See what happens.

The absolute KEY will be NOT to get twisted up about the $3400. If you act like it doesnt concern you, or isnt a primary concern, they lose what THEY believe to be the leverage 'holding' you.

Now, before you truly call their bluff and order elsewhere, I would ping a lawyer, drop $200, and get their opinion on your position- would you prevail? Are you reading the law correctly? You could do this first, or you could take some worthless, free advice from someone in california...and maybe they decide F-it, this guy isnt gonna be a pushover, we'll just cut the $3413 check....



A
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  #27  
Old 11-01-2012, 03:39 PM
wayner44 wayner44 is offline
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The salesman got back to me today and said the manager was not in today that he is going to give me a call tomorrow morning with a answer.

Will see what happens...
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  #28  
Old 11-01-2012, 05:08 PM
wayner44 wayner44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
As I mentioned, I am no lawyer but the details in red lettering tell me if they did not lock in all the financial details with you and you signed it - you are entitled to your deposit back. But again - I am a lay person.

Did you get a good deal? How much over invoice price? Also some new incentives came out so that may help your price.
What Incentives are you referring to?
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  #29  
Old 11-01-2012, 06:19 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Originally Posted by wayner44 View Post
What Incentives are you referring to?
Check under ask a dealer forum, and on BMW website for your vehicle.
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  #30  
Old 11-01-2012, 06:29 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
I'd get my money back, but then I am a tenacious dick.

You may need an atty, in the end.

You could try it without an atty, just via a letter, and see what happens. I am sitting here thinking about how I;d approach it:

Summarize the situation; (I signed a non-binding agreement (as the contract is defective since it is incomplete, and even if sufficient it is is non-binding by law since there will be financing); you purchased my used car and kept the proceeds as a deposit)
propose what you want; (I want a car with XYZ)
state what will happen in you dont get it (I am not inclined to consider the loan documents under the current situation)
As a result, you can either return the deposit or my old car. Should they agree to a new order, they should let you know in 48 hours as you are placing an order for a new car elsewhere at that time.

See what happens.

The absolute KEY will be NOT to get twisted up about the $3400. If you act like it doesnt concern you, or isnt a primary concern, they lose what THEY believe to be the leverage 'holding' you.

Now, before you truly call their bluff and order elsewhere, I would ping a lawyer, drop $200, and get their opinion on your position- would you prevail? Are you reading the law correctly? You could do this first, or you could take some worthless, free advice from someone in california...and maybe they decide F-it, this guy isnt gonna be a pushover, we'll just cut the $3413 check....



A

+1

Also, are you even getting a good deal to start?
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  #31  
Old 11-01-2012, 06:38 PM
wayner44 wayner44 is offline
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yea I belive so. The sale price is 600 below invoice. Its a three year lease for 536 per month at 10k miles per year. I dont know what the MF is.
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  #32  
Old 11-01-2012, 07:04 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Originally Posted by wayner44 View Post
yea I belive so. The sale price is 600 below invoice. Its a three year lease for 536 per month at 10k miles per year. I dont know what the MF is.
What incentives are they applying? Does not make sense to be under invoice without incentives being applied.
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  #33  
Old 11-01-2012, 07:11 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner44 View Post
yea I belive so. The sale price is 600 below invoice. Its a three year lease for 536 per month at 10k miles per year. I dont know what the MF is.
I dont know what incentives they have, so 'under invoice' can be hard to evaluate.

For example, when I ordered my 2009 X5d there was a 'secret' $4500 BMW-to-dealer incentive. As a result, a "$600 under invoice" deal meant the dealer was making $3900...

Just saying, again all depends on the current incentives on your specific car.

Good luck,


A

PS Looking at that document, it seems very light on specifying what options will be on the car, no?
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  #34  
Old 11-01-2012, 07:35 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
I dont know what incentives they have, so 'under invoice' can be hard to evaluate.

For example, when I ordered my 2009 X5d there was a 'secret' $4500 BMW-to-dealer incentive. As a result, a "$600 under invoice" deal meant the dealer was making $3900...

Just saying, again all depends on the current incentives on your specific car.

Good luck,


A

PS Looking at that document, it seems very light on specifying what options will be on the car, no?
True, but I doubt there is any of that on a 2013 335x in October, don't you think?
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  #35  
Old 11-01-2012, 08:27 PM
wayner44 wayner44 is offline
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yea there was no incentives. Maybe I just got a good deal? Can not wait to see what he has to say tomorrow.

Maybe I can also get him to apply the Holiday incentive if he is able to reorder and get my the Handling Package
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  #36  
Old 11-01-2012, 09:11 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Originally Posted by wayner44 View Post
yea there was no incentives. Maybe I just got a good deal? Can not wait to see what he has to say tomorrow.

Maybe I can also get him to apply the Holiday incentive if he is able to reorder and get my the Handling Package
Unlikely that they gave you a car under invoice for a MY2013 without applying some kind of incentives.

New incentives will apply if you take delivery/sign the contracts during the time when the incentives are available. Its not an if...
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  #37  
Old 11-01-2012, 10:54 PM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
True, but I doubt there is any of that on a 2013 335x in October, don't you think?
I was just giving an example...

Look, op has a piece of paper that says 536.88 per month, 3413 down, 10k mikes per year and 3 years... Who knows WHAT the actuals are/will be. There is simply not enough info to define a deal (which is, in fact, why this contract MUST be non binding).


He could easily have been told it was one price, yet they will use a different one at closing...

Hey, maybe the dealer really IS losing $600 on the deal. (not)

Dealers know people focus on 'the price', and as we all know with leases they can make money on other areas...so if I was the OP, I'd not hold too tightly to this one number (until you know all the terms of this deal- total downpayment, money factor, etc...)

A
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  #38  
Old 11-02-2012, 12:06 AM
wayner44 wayner44 is offline
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Lets say I am getting a good deal and they dont change the numbers once the car comes.

I would like your respectable opinion. Is going through this worth it for the Dynamic Handling Package?

I dont want to be looked down on, but this is my first BMW and the first BMW I ever drove was the one at the dealership which was the sport line 328 and I liked it.

Not have driven the x-drive suspension my fear is it will be to soft and I will unsatisfied throughout the lease term.

Last edited by wayner44; 11-02-2012 at 12:58 AM.
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  #39  
Old 11-02-2012, 07:39 AM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Originally Posted by wayner44 View Post
Lets say I am getting a good deal and they dont change the numbers once the car comes.

I would like your respectable opinion. Is going through this worth it for the Dynamic Handling Package?

I dont want to be looked down on, but this is my first BMW and the first BMW I ever drove was the one at the dealership which was the sport line 328 and I liked it.

Not have driven the x-drive suspension my fear is it will be to soft and I will unsatisfied throughout the lease term.
So some thoughts -

Why not go to the dealer and ask to drive one, and you judge?
Why would anyone look down on you?
Most importantly, why would you care what anyone thought, as long as you are happy with the money you are paying for your car?
(notice the theme... do what makes you happy)

Also, whatever you decide to do, the incentives are there and just ask the dealer to apply them.
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  #40  
Old 11-02-2012, 08:52 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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I honestly think that you need to get the exact car that you want. No matter how good the one that is coming now is, it will still be inferior to what you really wanted, and that will always be in the back of your mind. That's an opinion based on how I feel personally - sort of the never settle for second place stance. Are you a person who is happy to settle for compromise, or will always want to win and be perfect? Only after you look at that can YOU decide which is the best approach.

But the fact that you're dredging this issue over multiple days tells me that you should get the exact car you desire.
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  #41  
Old 11-02-2012, 08:53 AM
wayner44 wayner44 is offline
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Well just got off the phone. The manager of the dealer called me. The whole time she was blaming me see saying that I did not build the car the way I wanted in the first order and that the whole thing was my fault. I explained very well in the email and even included screen shots that on the BMW website I was misguided because it claimed to have a sport suspension when in the end it really does not. I made her acknowledge this but she still tried to say it was my fault. To an extent I should have did some more research I admit but I am not the only person on the forum who is going through this exact problem so what does that tell you.

In the end she said she will re order the car and that it will cost extra monthly and I told her I was aware of this but she did not confirm how much more per month it would cost. I believe the average for this Dynamic Handling Package is around 12 extra dollars per month? Correct me if I am wrong but I hope they do not try to charge me more than that.
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  #42  
Old 11-02-2012, 09:15 AM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
I honestly think that you need to get the exact car that you want. No matter how good the one that is coming now is, it will still be inferior to what you really wanted, and that will always be in the back of your mind. That's an opinion based on how I feel personally - sort of the never settle for second place stance. Are you a person who is happy to settle for compromise, or will always want to win and be perfect? Only after you look at that can YOU decide which is the best approach.

But the fact that you're dredging this issue over multiple days tells me that you should get the exact car you desire.
I agree, but he clearly states that he does not even know if it will be too soft. He just thinks it might be too soft.


Wayne - tell her that with the additional incentives the overall cost will actually go down. Make them give you a detailed breakdown.

It should include MSRP, Sales price (should include incentives) interest, money down, etc.

You should have ALL OF THIS INFO before re-ordering.
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  #43  
Old 11-02-2012, 09:15 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Originally Posted by wayner44 View Post
I hope they do not try to charge me more than that.
You need to get something in writing, email etc. Hope is not a medium to base a deal on. Be very polite, understanding, but firm on that point. You should be suspicious otherwise, since it would be in the best interests of both parties to have a clear understanding.
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  #44  
Old 11-02-2012, 09:16 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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I agree, but he clearly states that he does not even know if it will be too soft. He just thinks it might be too soft.
Yes. The logical thing would be to drive both cars and make a decision based upon that.
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  #45  
Old 11-02-2012, 10:33 AM
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Op

Ok, good. But now you need to grow a pair and stop being a victim.

1. Generate a config for what you want.
2. Find out the 'true dealer cost'. This is invoice plus delivery plus MACO MINUS any incentives. This is the target price.
3. Research leases. Understand MSDs. money factors, lease fees.
4. Go in and confirm the price.


If you do not do this. you will wind up paying too much.. (alredy a downpayment on a lease, instead of a secrutiy deposit means you dont know what you are doing...)

Or, you can do what most newbs do: hope it is OK, just go for it..learn the hard way, spend a extra $5000-10,000...and then do your homeowrk the next time around.

Horse

water
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  #46  
Old 11-02-2012, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
Op

Ok, good. But now you need to grow a pair and stop being a victim.

1. Generate a config for what you want.
2. Find out the 'true dealer cost'. This is invoice plus delivery plus MACO MINUS any incentives. This is the target price.
3. Research leases. Understand MSDs. money factors, lease fees.
4. Go in and confirm the price.


If you do not do this. you will wind up paying too much.. (alredy a downpayment on a lease, instead of a secrutiy deposit means you dont know what you are doing...)

Or, you can do what most newbs do: hope it is OK, just go for it..learn the hard way, spend a extra $5000-10,000...and then do your homeowrk the next time around.

Horse

water
OP.. you must read the quoted post.

then read it again, and after read it once more. focus on the bolded.
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  #47  
Old 11-02-2012, 12:57 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
Op

Ok, good. But now you need to grow a pair and stop being a victim.

1. Generate a config for what you want.
2. Find out the 'true dealer cost'. This is invoice plus delivery plus MACO MINUS any incentives. This is the target price.
3. Research leases. Understand MSDs. money factors, lease fees.
4. Go in and confirm the price.


If you do not do this. you will wind up paying too much.. (alredy a downpayment on a lease, instead of a secrutiy deposit means you dont know what you are doing...)

Or, you can do what most newbs do: hope it is OK, just go for it..learn the hard way, spend a extra $5000-10,000...and then do your homeowrk the next time around.

Horse

water

+1
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  #48  
Old 11-02-2012, 01:43 PM
wayner44 wayner44 is offline
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I understand, I actually did try to do MSD's but New York does not allow them.
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