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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 12-23-2014, 08:13 AM
twssas twssas is online now
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Active Roll Stabilization/DHP

Been trying to do some research on comparing current 2010 e60 with sport package to new 2015 f10, as far as ride/handling goes.

Our e60 has the active roll stabilization as part of the sport package, and keeps the car flat during agressive turning, etc.

Am I correct that the only way to get that feature in the new F10's is to get the DHP package?

If you were to only get the M Sport package, would ARS be included with it?
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  #2  
Old 12-23-2014, 08:45 AM
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The sport suspension in the M sport line is lower and has a different (presumably stronger) anti-roll bar, and I think auxiliary shock absorbers. Nothing active.

I don't think you have to turn aggressively to want something better than standard suspension. I spent some time in a F01 with ARS and I liked it most in small, sharp course corrections at medium speeds. I never drove a F10 with the 704 suspension, dunno whether it gets the job done.
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  #3  
Old 12-23-2014, 08:44 PM
ImolaRedM ImolaRedM is offline
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The only way to get ARS is to get DHP. If your F10 is an xDrive then you'll want DHP since even with M Sports Package you won't get the 704 suspension so DHP is a must (IMO). If you don't get xDrive then it's up for debate if you want the 704 suspension or DHP. I would go for 704.
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  #4  
Old 12-24-2014, 04:56 AM
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ErnestHouse ErnestHouse is offline
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As of the MY 2014 LCI, ARS is bundled with DHP. On my F07 ARS is very effective. F10 owners report the same. In combination with IAS, I think you get the fullest benefit of BMW's suspension and steering engineering for the most fun.

IMHO, the value of DHP over 704 is not being locked into the hard suspension when you don't need or want it. Being dynamic, a change in the road surface or passenger can be the reason to flip into a cushy soft ride instead of the usual rock hard but fun sport suspension. It's also useful reducing white knuckles in the passenger seat when you come upon a nice bit of twisty road and then return to "normal" when it's over. Then there's the middle ground of Comfort mode which isn't too shabby to a point.

But if, as WillInDenver says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillInDenver View Post
I drive mine around in Sport mode 99% of the time and for that, 704 would be better and cheaper.
then the DHP is wasted. Otherwise, you'll love it like so many others who have it do.
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  #5  
Old 12-24-2014, 06:30 AM
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demas demas is offline
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Try to test a car with integral active steering. I would say that in itself makes a larger difference than DHP to 704.

I came from an E39 540 MSport and swapped in an M5 steering gearbox - it's nearly on par with the way my F10 steers (although the V8 E39's did have the dreaded recirculating ball). I had a loaner F10 535 once with standard steering and could not believe the degrade (no offense to anyone).

I would go the 704 passive route with IAS and ARS but that combination isn't offered.

My F10 will outhandle, outgrip, outsteer my old E39 MSport any day but it just doesn't feel like it when it does - it's very linear, not very engaging but just does it. This style of car may or may not be to your liking.

The only thing I liked about the E60 was the way it drove
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  #6  
Old 12-24-2014, 06:47 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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I had a 2011 550i with ARS as part of the DHP. Currently I have a 2014 550i M-Sport, with the passive 704 M-Sport sport suspension. The ARS is more robust than the passive anti-roll suspension in the M-Sport sport suspension when cornering. Both work well, but the ARS works slightly better when cornering. I do not like setting the DHP each time that I get in the car so the 704 M-Sport works well for me plus it was cheaper. I took the savings and bought the B+O sound system. The standard F10 suspension in the refresh in noticeably better in general than the pre-refresh fresh F10. All BMWs have anti-roll bars of varying degrees.

Clearly DHP with ARS is the future with each iteration getting noticeably better.
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  #7  
Old 12-24-2014, 07:07 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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Active Roll Stabilization/DHP

Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
I had a 2011 550i with ARS as part of the DHP. Currently I have a 2014 550i M-Sport, with the passive 704 M-Sport sport suspension. The ARS is more robust than the passive anti-roll suspension in the M-Sport sport suspension when cornering. Both work well, but the ARS works slightly better when cornering. I do not like setting the DHP each time that I get in the car so the 704 M-Sport works well for me plus it was cheaper. I took the savings and bought the B+O sound system. The standard F10 suspension in the refresh in noticeably better in general than the pre-refresh fresh F10. All BMWs have anti-roll bars of varying degrees.

Clearly DHP with ARS is the future with each iteration getting noticeably better.

I have the 704 and it does lean a bit more than I'd like in turns but I like it. Would be nice to have ARS plus 704 if that were possible. Since ARS is available a la carte in the rest of the world I wonder which shock/spring setup they use on cars ordered like that.

Cost and having to push the sport button each time aside which setup do you prefer?

Given its nature I would think ARS works the same regardless of the mode selected- when going straight it keeps the effective roll bar stiffness lower and only engages when cornering. DDC is a different story
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  #8  
Old 12-24-2014, 07:54 AM
ImolaRedM ImolaRedM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw325 View Post
I have the 704 and it does lean a bit more than I'd like in turns but I like it.
And I feel that the DHP (ARS) leans more than I like.
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  #9  
Old 12-24-2014, 03:07 PM
bmguy bmguy is offline
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I have ARS/DHP - I love it.
I have a xdrive, but I found the setup still too soft, so I added the suspension kit from Dinan plus the shock software they offer. That basically turns normal mode into sport mode, and that was the best money I spent; very notable improvement;

The factory normal mode is now approx the ride comfort of "comfort+" in my setup, which is the softest I'd ever want;

For me the dinan software and suspension kit (which also lowers the car about 0.5 inches was worth every penny.

When I get into a loaner car from the dealer now, I am reminded exactly what the few bucks I spent with dinan in addition to ARS/DHP is worth.

my feeling is that the driving a BMW feeling that most expect from a BMW is only starts to be achieved with ARS/DHP but the relative small cost to add dinan software and springs is what the BMW should be coming out of the factory like.

p.s. the software can only be added if I recall, to a DHP equipped car (I could be wrong) - but you don't need their spring kit to install it. This feature was about $600 bucks and solves the problem of pushing "sport" mode every time you get into the car
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  #10  
Old 12-24-2014, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
I had a 2011 550i with ARS as part of the DHP. Currently I have a 2014 550i M-Sport, with the passive 704 M-Sport sport suspension. The ARS is more robust than the passive anti-roll suspension in the M-Sport sport suspension when cornering. Both work well, but the ARS works slightly better when cornering. I do not like setting the DHP each time that I get in the car so the 704 M-Sport works well for me plus it was cheaper. I took the savings and bought the B+O sound system. The standard F10 suspension in the refresh in noticeably better in general than the pre-refresh fresh F10. All BMWs have anti-roll bars of varying degrees.

Clearly DHP with ARS is the future with each iteration getting noticeably better.
I agree, once the 704 suspension came out, the cost of replacing it with ARS was way to much and could be better spent elsewhere.
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  #11  
Old 01-11-2015, 01:09 PM
twssas twssas is online now
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Well, we finally had an opportunity to test drive a DHP equipped vehicle.

Drove a 2015 550 Msport with DHP. Pretty impressive. Handling was great, steering feel very good. I put the chassis in sport, and left the transmission in comfort, among other combinations, and although the steering feel wasnt as heavy as out 2010 e60 sport, it was still very good. We took a couple of ramps off the interstate with tight curves well above the suggested speed limits and car did fantastic.

Then we drove a 2015 535 with Msport only. With the Msport, I could not mix/match chassis/transmission like I did with the DHP car, and it was with all sport, all comfort, all eco, etc. Steering still felt very good, but the same off ramps, wasnt quite as impressive. Still was good, but I thought the DHP performed better.

I actually thought you could configure chassis/transmission on either set up, but apparently not.

Did not have an opportunity to drive on any rough roads, was all interstate/off ramps/city streets, which is typical of wifes everyday driving anyway.

She preferred the 550 with the DHP. So looks like I am narrowing the build now to a vehicle with DHP. I really dont want to spend the money on Msport with DHP, since it would be mostly cosmetic, but do love that Msport steering wheel!

So, I am toying with the idea of a no-line build and pick DHP as an option. So, is my assumption correct, with DHP, whether it is a no-line, luxury line, or Msport, the DHP suspension would be the same on all 3 ?
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2015, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twssas View Post
Well, we finally had an opportunity to test drive a DHP equipped vehicle.

Drove a 2015 550 Msport with DHP. Pretty impressive. Handling was great, steering feel very good. I put the chassis in sport, and left the transmission in comfort, among other combinations, and although the steering feel wasnt as heavy as out 2010 e60 sport, it was still very good. We took a couple of ramps off the interstate with tight curves well above the suggested speed limits and car did fantastic.

Then we drove a 2015 535 with Msport only. With the Msport, I could not mix/match chassis/transmission like I did with the DHP car, and it was with all sport, all comfort, all eco, etc. Steering still felt very good, but the same off ramps, wasnt quite as impressive. Still was good, but I thought the DHP performed better.

I actually thought you could configure chassis/transmission on either set up, but apparently not.

Did not have an opportunity to drive on any rough roads, was all interstate/off ramps/city streets, which is typical of wifes everyday driving anyway.

She preferred the 550 with the DHP. So looks like I am narrowing the build now to a vehicle with DHP. I really dont want to spend the money on Msport with DHP, since it would be mostly cosmetic, but do love that Msport steering wheel!

So, I am toying with the idea of a no-line build and pick DHP as an option. So, is my assumption correct, with DHP, whether it is a no-line, luxury line, or Msport, the DHP suspension would be the same on all 3 ?
The different lines still differ in default wheels, and whether they have staggered tires. The plain m-sport should have no chassis to adjust. The steering in new 550is should be speed-sensitive and angle-sensitive even without DHP and with no difference in lines.

I think your ramp runs simply showed the ARS portion of the DHP. It is what the car needs.

If you really liked it I would also check out a F01. With that a F01 with ARS drove overall nicer than a F10, because the F01 has more of a traditional steering feel.
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  #13  
Old 01-11-2015, 05:12 PM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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Correct- with DHP the suspension is the same regardless of line. Keep in mind that the "lines" bump up wheel size to 19", and that depending on how it was specced the msport you drove could've had summer tires (vs all seasons for luxury and no-line). Those can also change the way a car feels overall and the steering feel as well.

Not saying it will work- but you could ask if they'd special order the Msport wheel on a no line car. Probably will be refused but worth a shot. My guess is it would cost about $500 (if the factory approves). Or you could try and find one on ebay. I think they cost about $1k or so. If you're leasing, of course, its not worth it to do that since 1000/36 = $27 which is roughly how much msport would add to your lease payment anyway.

But I agree with your assessment- if I were oredering DHP I'd probably skip msport since they are 2 very expesnive options. Plus, I actually prefer the look of the no-line cars and also having 18" vs 19" wheels.
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  #14  
Old 01-11-2015, 09:32 PM
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  #15  
Old 01-12-2015, 09:42 AM
mpress mpress is offline
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WEll after 3 years with DHP on my 55o, and now 3 weeks with a new 535 m sport without DHP…

I like the general sportiness of the car better without DHP, i feel a little more connected to the road, but overall it is a 50/50 tradeoff..

There are times under really quick sporty maneuvers where i am sure that the non dup set up handles the situation better, however, i also consider myself a very capable driver to drive emu car through those situations when i have gotten myself into one…

For the first week or two i was sure i made the right decision after driving the car with and without dhp…now its a toss up..why…?

DHP is certainly missed more under rough road conditions, my daily commute to new york city reveal far more bumps and bruises to the drive in…the dhp definitely smoothed the road…as far as handling though i prefer the non dhp set up, however again i have found myself overpowered in an off bank turn on a rough road, where i may have pushed a little to hard, can't be sure because i cat reenact the situation with a dhp car but i think under a hard strive rough road dhp is a good thing….

would i order it now that i have had these 3 weeks without it??? still not sure it really is a toss up…

mp
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:51 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpress View Post
WEll after 3 years with DHP on my 55o, and now 3 weeks with a new 535 m sport without DHP….

I like the general sportiness of the car better without DHP, i feel a little more connected to the road, but overall it is a 50/50 tradeoff..

There are times under really quick sporty maneuvers where i am sure that the non dup set up handles the situation better, however, i also consider myself a very capable driver to drive emu car through those situations when i have gotten myself into one….

For the first week or two i was sure i made the right decision after driving the car with and without dhp….now its a toss up..why….?

DHP is certainly missed more under rough road conditions, my daily commute to new york city reveal far more bumps and bruises to the drive in….the dhp definitely smoothed the road….as far as handling though i prefer the non dhp set up, however again i have found myself overpowered in an off bank turn on a rough road, where i may have pushed a little to hard, can't be sure because i cat reenact the situation with a dhp car but i think under a hard strive rough road dhp is a good thing…..

would i order it now that i have had these 3 weeks without it??? still not sure it really is a toss up….

mp

This is great info. Thanks for posting. Its never been clear to me whether DHP's primary benefit was a softer suspension on demand, but a compromise while in sport mode vs the 704 suspension. Some here give the impresion that DHP in sport mode outhandles 704 in sport mode and corners flatter.
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:12 AM
mpress mpress is offline
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perhaps but hard to make that as the determination i was getting at..

while there continues to be confusion about this subject and so many people chiming in with their own beliefs and are usually very adamant about their OPINIONS, mine is simply my opinion,

I feel…….
DHP 90% of the time offers a slightly softer suspension, one i would welcome again on rough roads during my daily commute, but not enough to warrant the softer less road feel under most sportier driving conditions….

BUT

DHP would also definitely be welcomed under some duress situations it where it helps control and stabilize the car a bit more then the human eye hand coordination…

My gut gut is very few race car drivers if told they had to drive a 5 series as their daily driver would ever opt for DHP, perhaps they would be split between the 704 red and non dhp dive, but in either case i think they would opt for M sport suspension over all…..

mp
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:17 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpress View Post
perhaps but hard to make that as the determination i was getting at..

while there continues to be confusion about this subject and so many people chiming in with their own beliefs and are usually very adamant about their OPINIONS, mine is simply my opinion,

I feel…...…....
DHP 90% of the time offers a slightly softer suspension, one i would welcome again on rough roads during my daily commute, but not enough to warrant the softer less road feel under most sportier driving conditions…....

BUT

DHP would also definitely be welcomed under some duress situations it where it helps control and stabilize the car a bit more then the human eye hand coordination…...

My gut gut is very few race car drivers if told they had to drive a 5 series as their daily driver would ever opt for DHP, perhaps they would be split between the 704 red and non dhp dive, but in either case i think they would opt for M sport suspension over all….....

mp
Good points.

I also drive on NYC roads and have a 704 equipped car. It actually feels fine to me on rough roads, but that could be because I have 18" wheels isntead of 19s. Also I came from an e92 which would make you cringe everytime you came near a bump. Havent had a "pothole explosion" yet (google for a good laugh if you dont know what that is). Also, even on a straight smooth highway, the car tends to be less directionally stable than past BMWs, so I think I'd err on the side of getting the tightest suspension available. I'm actually considering upgrading the swaybars to M5 front /650 rear as some have done.

And I agree- whenever I've heard interviews with professional drivers or journalists they tend to prefer a fixed suspension because they value consistency. That being said, if someone like that had an f10, i'd fully expect that they'd put an afternarket suspension in it, and probably non- runflat tires.
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:27 AM
mpress mpress is offline
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What would make this car perfect for me is Dinan performance springs and supplemental handling kit, not yet showing available for the 535 F10, but i hear anyway now… i have calls into my dinan rep now…. there is something amazing about that set up (but the springs need the handling kit on our roads..

i agree with you the drive in is no big deal but trust me the dhp does take away some of the bumps… my wife drives a 335gt m sport with dhp, and ill take my 535 over hers on these roads…. the 3 and 4 series despite dhp are just to jittery for me.. i really thought i was going to go down the road of a loaded 435 xdrive m sport convertible but just wasn't enough comfort for me to pull the trigger and leave the 5 series behind...
mp
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