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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 10-30-2012, 07:42 AM
Honker Honker is offline
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More xdrive Questions, sorry

First off, Yes, I have read the other xdrive suspension threads. Yes, I have done searches. Unfortunately all the previous threads have been a bit confusing. To summarize what I think I have learned from the previous threads :

1) Base xdrive suspension is softer that the base RWD Luxury or the RWD Modern suspension.
2) Sport suspension does not lower the xdrive suspension.
3) Dynamic handling Package (DHP) which includes the m adaptive suspension only uses what existing suspension you have, but allows you to set modes (comfort / sport) in addition to “sensing” road conditions and making adjustments automatically .

Now I live in Canada. Here when you order a sportline, sport suspension is not included. You must add it as an option. PLUS, you cannot add m adaptive suspension to a sportline. You can only add m adaptive suspension to an M Sport.

I had an 09 328 xdrive with the base suspension. For me it was just right. A solid firm feel with good cornering/ handling. I also had the 16” wheels with all seasons on it. I figured that the base suspension would be just right with the 2013 335 sportline xdrive I had ordered. I did test drive a 13 rwd sportline with base suspension and it felt good. There were no xdrives available to test drive at the time when I ordered the car in August.

The new 13 335 xdrive is fine. It just seems a little more soft that even my 09 328 xdrive. It’s is not bad, but perhaps just a bit different. Got me thinking, should I have gotten the sport suspension……??? I should also mention that when we picked up the car, the weather was pretty wintery. I bought a set of winter tire/rims and had them installed at the dealer. The car comes with the 225/45/18 A/S and I had them put on a set of Pirelli Sotozero II 225/50/17’s. I have not yet driven the car with the all season 225/45/18’s and won’t until April probably.

Now the questions
1) The sport suspension on the xdrives does not lower the car, but is the sport suspension stiffer then base xdrive?

2) What is the difference between base xdrive and sport xdrive suspension? Is it just springs and/or shocks? Can these be changed, ie) can sport suspension be retro fitted? I am not looking to lower the car.

3) Would the 17” winter tire setup make the car a bit softer than the 18” all season setup.

Don’t get me wrong, the car is fine. Still handles nice and rides nice. I just might be used to the firmness of the 09 and am wondering what options are, if I wanted to pursue them.
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  #2  
Old 10-30-2012, 07:54 AM
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voip-ninja voip-ninja is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honker View Post
First off, Yes, I have read the other xdrive suspension threads. Yes, I have done searches. Unfortunately all the previous threads have been a bit confusing. To summarize what I think I have learned from the previous threads :

1) Base xdrive suspension is softer that the base RWD Luxury or the RWD Modern suspension.
I don't believe that correct. AFAIK the stock suspension in the XI is the same as the stock suspension in the RWD non-sport cars.
Quote:
2) Sport suspension does not lower the xdrive suspension.
There is no sport suspension for x-drive cars, the only option is adaptive.
Quote:
3) Dynamic handling Package (DHP) which includes the m adaptive suspension only uses what existing suspension you have, but allows you to set modes (comfort / sport) in addition to "sensing" road conditions and making adjustments automatically .
The m-adaptive consists of completely different dampeners and active control. It is a "completely different" suspension than the stock regular or stock sport suspension. The m-adaptive on the x-drive is not lowered 10mm since that would cause clearance problems with x-drive components. I'm not sure that anyone has done enough aggressive driving on the track to quantify what the differences might be between the 10mm lowered m-adaptive vs the x-drive m-adaptive. From what I can tell the two suspensions are THE SAME in this case other than the 10mm of lowering.

Now the questions
Quote:
1) The sport suspension on the xdrives does not lower the car, but is the sport suspension stiffer then base xdrive?
See above... there is no sport suspension for the x-drive car. Period.


Quote:
2) What is the difference between base xdrive and sport xdrive suspension? Is it just springs and/or shocks? Can these be changed, ie) can sport suspension be retro fitted? I am not looking to lower the car.
There is no difference between sport x-drive because there is no such thing as sport x-drive suspension. Basically if you get a sport x-drive car you are paying for a sport suspension that you do not get. Rather than getting an aftermarket suspension for the x-drive you should get the m-adaptive suspension for $900 it is worth every penny.

Quote:
3) Would the 17" winter tire setup make the car a bit softer than the 18" all season setup.
Probably, only one way to find out.

This sounds like a case of ordering/buying a car without doing enough research. I will concede that BMW should do a better job of educating their CAs on this subject... however, ultimately the responsibility is with the buyer to inform themselves.
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  #3  
Old 10-30-2012, 08:10 AM
Honker Honker is offline
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There is no sport suspension for x-drive cars, the only option is adaptive.

So in Canada, what is the $400 sport suspension option for the xdrive get you?


This sounds like a case of ordering/buying a car without doing enough research. I will concede that BMW should do a better job of educating their CAs on this subject... however, ultimately the responsibility is with the buyer to inform themselves.

Yes, to some extent, I did a lot of research, but BMW makes it difficult.. In Canada you cannot get the adaptive on anything but an MSport,which I did not want. Plus, nothing was available to test drive at the time. I could have been more patient I guess. As I have said, I like the car, just considering "should'ves" ie) should I have got the sport suspension. From what you said, there is no such thing....
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  #4  
Old 10-30-2012, 08:13 AM
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voip-ninja voip-ninja is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honker View Post
There is no sport suspension for x-drive cars, the only option is adaptive.

So in Canada, what is the $400 sport suspension option for the xdrive get you?
I think only someone from BMW can tell you this. The only option is possibly stiffer springs, but they would not be lowered.

AFAIK BMW have never offered a "sport" suspension on any x-drive 3 series cars so this one is a bit of a mystery.

If there really was a sport suspension for x-drive available why do they not offer it in other markets?

I would contact BMW corporate on this one to get a resolution.

It's too bad you could not get the m-adaptive option, it is a really nice suspension.
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  #5  
Old 10-30-2012, 08:26 AM
ggalanis ggalanis is online now
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I think that was a mistake on the bmw.ca website.
I was playing with the build your own feature yesterday and noticed that the 400$ sport suspension was no longer an option on my make believe 335xi.

And i am 100% sure it used to be there... right under the 500$ adaptive suspension tickbox wich properly warns you that you need to pick the m sports line (+2300$) in order to get it.

Last edited by ggalanis; 10-30-2012 at 08:28 AM. Reason: removed quote that didnt work
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  #6  
Old 10-30-2012, 08:29 AM
Honker Honker is offline
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WOW! I just went to BMW Canada's website to take a screen shot of the "sport suspension $400" option for the xdrive and it is now gone, confirming that you cannot get the sport suspension with the xdrive. I swear it was on the "build your own" configurator before. It must have been a mistake as it is now removed. On the RWD 335 sportline, the sport suspension for $400 is still available. In Canada you have to option it, while in the US it is part of the sportline package.

Shame that the adaptive in only available on the MSport in Canada.

OOPS, was typing this as you posted ggalanis

Last edited by Honker; 10-30-2012 at 08:36 AM.
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  #7  
Old 10-30-2012, 09:19 AM
sean10mm sean10mm is offline
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voip-ninja hit all the high points. To recap (with sources named):

-If you see "sport suspension" or "m sport suspension" on an F30 it's the same thing (option 704.) You can confirm this yourself by reading the official 2013 BMW 3 series ordering guide.
-No xDrive F30 comes with this suspension, regardless of line or packages or options selected, and regardless of what the BMW web site or the CA you talked to says. You can confirm this yourself by reading the official 2013 BMW 3 series ordering guide.
-The only suspension option for xDrive cars is the adaptive m suspension. You can confirm this yourself by reading the official 2013 BMW 3 series ordering guide. The adaptive m suspension lowers the car 10mm on RWD cars, but not on xDrive cars, which keep the standard ride height no matter what line or packages or options you add. Confirmed by Bimmerfest.com.
-On RWD cars that come with the 704 sport suspension, if you add adaptive m the 704 sport suspension is deleted from the order; i.e. DHP deletes 704. You can confirm this yourself by reading the official 2013 BMW 3 series ordering guide.

This is all from US sources so I can't 100% guarantee they apply in all markets, but nobody has found an exception to these rules yet. DHP (adaptive m + variable sport steering) is offered on all US F30s (regardless of line, or xDrive vs. non-xDrive) for $1,000 in the US.

Last edited by sean10mm; 10-30-2012 at 09:24 AM.
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  #8  
Old 10-30-2012, 09:50 AM
DerekS DerekS is offline
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Finally, you have now been correctly advised on one of the many trade-offs (or shortcomings) of choosing Xdrive: no sport suspension available.

It's one of several reasons why I decided against Xdrive, the others being a higher stance (by 10mm), extra weight over the front axle, wider turning circle, compromised steering feel, and increased fuel consumption. But, I see that you are located in Saskatchewan, so perhaps Xdrive is the better choice for your long winters ?
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  #9  
Old 10-30-2012, 10:14 AM
sean10mm sean10mm is offline
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Pro tip: nobody cares about your opinion of xDrive.

And it's not much of a trade-off since you can just get the more advanced adaptive m suspension for peanuts.
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  #10  
Old 10-30-2012, 11:33 AM
Honker Honker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean10mm View Post
voip-ninja hit all the high points. To recap (with sources named):

-If you see "sport suspension" or "m sport suspension" on an F30 it's the same thing (option 704.) You can confirm this yourself by reading the official 2013 BMW 3 series ordering guide.
-No xDrive F30 comes with this suspension, regardless of line or packages or options selected, and regardless of what the BMW web site or the CA you talked to says. You can confirm this yourself by reading the official 2013 BMW 3 series ordering guide.
-The only suspension option for xDrive cars is the adaptive m suspension. You can confirm this yourself by reading the official 2013 BMW 3 series ordering guide. The adaptive m suspension lowers the car 10mm on RWD cars, but not on xDrive cars, which keep the standard ride height no matter what line or packages or options you add. Confirmed by Bimmerfest.com.
-On RWD cars that come with the 704 sport suspension, if you add adaptive m the 704 sport suspension is deleted from the order; i.e. DHP deletes 704. You can confirm this yourself by reading the official 2013 BMW 3 series ordering guide.

This is all from US sources so I can't 100% guarantee they apply in all markets, but nobody has found an exception to these rules yet. DHP (adaptive m + variable sport steering) is offered on all US F30s (regardless of line, or xDrive vs. non-xDrive) for $1,000 in the US.
This right there should be a sticky and put an end to any questions.
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  #11  
Old 10-30-2012, 11:43 AM
DerekS DerekS is offline
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Originally Posted by sean10mm View Post
And it's not much of a trade-off since you can just get the more advanced adaptive m suspension for peanuts.
Not so in Canada as the OP stated previously; in order get the M adaptive suspension, we have to opt for the M Sport package ($2300 extra) plus the M Adaptive suspension ($500) = $2800 Total.
That's not "peanuts" for Canadians !
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  #12  
Old 10-30-2012, 12:06 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean10mm View Post
pro tip: Nobody cares about your opinion of xdrive.
+1
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  #13  
Old 10-30-2012, 04:19 PM
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voip-ninja voip-ninja is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS View Post
Finally, you have now been correctly advised on one of the many trade-offs (or shortcomings) of choosing Xdrive: no sport suspension available.

It's one of several reasons why I decided against Xdrive, the others being a higher stance (by 10mm), extra weight over the front axle, wider turning circle, compromised steering feel, and increased fuel consumption. But, I see that you are located in Saskatchewan, so perhaps Xdrive is the better choice for your long winters ?
I am coming from cars with much more aggressive suspension setups than your typical car and I have no complaints about my x-drive F30. It still has a nearly 50/50 weight distribution, handles VERY well and the m-adaptive suspension is a $12 a month option on a lease that makes up for any "shortcomings" of the x-drive option or lack of sport suspension.

This is of course my opinion but I've driven sport and non sport F30s as well as the F30 with x-drive and adaptive-m and the F30 x-drive with that suspension has nothing to apologize for.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:42 PM
DerekS DerekS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
I am coming from cars with much more aggressive suspension setups than your typical car and I have no complaints about my x-drive F30. It still has a nearly 50/50 weight distribution, handles VERY well and the m-adaptive suspension is a $12 a month option on a lease that makes up for any "shortcomings" of the x-drive option or lack of sport suspension.

This is of course my opinion but I've driven sport and non sport F30s as well as the F30 with x-drive and adaptive-m and the F30 x-drive with that suspension has nothing to apologize for.
Good that your Xdrive with M adaptive suspension handles well ! Unfortunately for Canadian buyers of F30 Xdrive, this combination is only available with 335i M Sport + M adaptive = $2800 on top of the extra $2500 for Xdrive.
This point was raised by Honker, the OP.
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Last edited by DerekS; 10-30-2012 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:46 PM
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voip-ninja voip-ninja is offline
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Yes I can sympathize with Canadian friends who are faced with this dilemma. I hope that the adaptive option sells very well in the US so that they consider making it an easier to order option for you northern neighbors.
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:50 PM
DerekS DerekS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Yes I can sympathize with Canadian friends who are faced with this dilemma. I hope that the adaptive option sells very well in the US so that they consider making it an easier to order option for you northern neighbors.
Unfortunately, Canadian BMW buyers get shafted on pricing compared to US buyers. The only reasonably priced factory option for Canadian buyers of 335i M Sport is the M Sport brakes, only $350 extra ! For some strange reason, this option is not available in the US.
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:37 PM
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Having driven both I would personally rather have 328i x-drive with more goodies (adaptive suspension, tech package) than a more spartanly equipped 335i x-drive.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:13 AM
Honker Honker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
Having driven both I would personally rather have 328i x-drive with more goodies (adaptive suspension, tech package) than a more spartanly equipped 335i x-drive.
Myself, I like a good smooth powerful engine. I have test driven the 328 and it was a really good engine. Good power, smooth, very nice. The 335 is just better. Kinda like the suspension is good, but with adaptive it is better.

By the way, BMW Canada has thought of your suggestion to get the 328 xdrive with the DHP. You cannot get a 328 with the Msport package in Canada . Thus the only way to get the adaptive suspension in Canada is to get the 335 Msport package. So with just 335 xdrive sedan and Msport checked off, the price is $59,501, not one other option other than what comes with the package. For me, it wasn't the extra money for the MSport, it was more the limited interior choices and the front end is too boy racer looking for me. Also the wife didn't like the looks of it as much either. I do appreciate the look and understand why it is popular, but we were not interested in the MSport.

I wonder what the adaptive suspension includes. Is it just the struts and some electronic bits? I wonder if you could retro fit it in. Of course it would probably cost $5,000 or something silly and you would need to personally kiss the ring hand of BMW Canada's top executive and promise to do him a favour in the future in return. (cue Godfather music in background)
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:19 PM
spacemanrick spacemanrick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS View Post
Finally, you have now been correctly advised on one of the many trade-offs (or shortcomings) of choosing Xdrive: no sport suspension available.

It's one of several reasons why I decided against Xdrive, the others being a higher stance (by 10mm), extra weight over the front axle, wider turning circle, compromised steering feel, and increased fuel consumption. But, I see that you are located in Saskatchewan, so perhaps Xdrive is the better choice for your long winters ?
Derek, I have asked you this before but you don't seem to want to answer the question, have you ever driven a 335 xdrive and if so how many miles have you actually driven a 335 xdrive?

Over the past 10 years I have owned a 2002 330xi, 2006 330i, 2008 335xi and now a 2013 335 xdrive so I know exactly how the rear wheel drive and all wheel 3 series cars drive. The difference in drive is minimal even if you are pushing it to the limits. Full traction in any weather (especially in rainy Vancouver) and also being able to power out of a corner with all 4 wheels is something the rear wheel drive 3 series just can't do.

Also for those with mild winter temperatures (like it is here in Vancouver 95% of the time from November to February when the average temperature during the day is about 8 degrees celcius), most winter tires are terrible at braking and handling in warmer temperatures and the only tire (the Pirelli) that performs decently in the milder temperatures rated very poor for ice conditions. I had Pirelli winter tires on my previous 2006 330i and can concur that in places with a mild winter that rarely gets below freezing and rarely snows, snow tires are just too much of a sacrifice in noise, comfort, and handling for 95% of our winter!

Derek knowing that snow tires suck in Vancouver's mild winter climate, if you put snow tires on your car in Vancouver when do you put them on and take them off?

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=751470
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:06 PM
DerekS DerekS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacemanrick View Post
Derek, I have asked you this before but you don't seem to want to answer the question, have you ever driven a 335 xdrive and if so how many miles have you actually driven a 335 xdrive?
Derek knowing that snow tires suck in Vancouver's mild winter climate, if you put snow tires on your car in Vancouver when do you put them on and take them off?

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=751470
My past experience driving and owning Xdrive includes an E91-328i Xdrive and X5-335d Xdrive. I know the difference in feel between RWD and Xdrive, so that is why I did not wish to drive a 335i Xdrive. There are other reasons which I have previously stated.

To me the true essence of BMW is a RWD, well balanced sport sedan (or coupe/convert) with a sport suspension. That original formula has obviously gone through some considerable expansion with the addition of Xdrive sedans and SUV Xdrives.

My preference is for RWD. The fact that about 90% of 3 Series sold in Canada are now Xdrive suggests that I'm in a declining minority of RWD enthusiasts. I respect that there are good and valid reasons for folks choosing Xdrive. However, I also believe that a significant part of this trend to Xdrive is the result of BMW's marketing efforts for Xdrive and the sales push from dealers. After all, both BMW and the dealers make considerably more $$$ per Xdrive sold.

My last 3 Series was a E90 335d RWD with sport package. I swapped the Michelin summer performance tires for a set of Dunlop M3 winter tires (Nov-March). The Dunlops performed very well in cold, wet and snowy conditions. For ice conditions, I understand there are better choices for winter tires.

I have owned and driven more than a dozen BMWs since 1984 (including E30, E36, E39, E46, E90, E91 and X5), only two which were Xdrive. I have never had any problems getting around in snow with a RWD equipped with proper snow tires.

Unfortunately, Dunlop does not offer the correct 18" winter tire size to fit F30-335i, so I will be going with Pirelli 240 Sottozero II winter tires to replace the summer performance tires.
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Last edited by DerekS; 10-31-2012 at 03:16 PM.
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