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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 11-02-2012, 09:13 AM
rdc rdc is offline
Russell
Location: Lexington, KY
 
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small valve cover leak --sand cover?

Got a small valve cover leak at the back edge. just enough to make 3-4 drops on the garage floor every day. I used a Felpro gasket a bout a year ago. Went ahead and snugged up the bolts the other day, no change. Someone stated that often the valve cover gets a bit warped over time and suggested it be 'trued" up by have it lightly sanded on a precision sander just to flatten it.

Any thoughts or experience?
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  #2  
Old 11-02-2012, 10:33 AM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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Ive never heard that but i have the same issue.

Victor Reinz gasket, a year ago also
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  #3  
Old 11-02-2012, 10:52 AM
rdc rdc is offline
Russell
Location: Lexington, KY
 
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Mein Auto: 1995 525iA
My indy shop suggested it. Seems that the bolts would flatten/clamp it enough to stop a leak.
BTW, I have heard some people use a sealant on the back part of the gasket with the half moons. I did not. never have and have done it three times on my car. The Felpro is the only one I had a leak with.
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1995 525i auto, 1/95 build, EAT chip, abt 234K miles, , HID, Lumbar, Oxford Green/Parchment, rebuilt trany @ 208K

Last edited by rdc; 11-02-2012 at 10:55 AM.
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  #4  
Old 11-02-2012, 12:57 PM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdc View Post
My indy shop suggested it. Seems that the bolts would flatten/clamp it enough to stop a leak.
BTW, I have heard some people use a sealant on the back part of the gasket with the half moons. I did not. never have and have done it three times on my car. The Felpro is the only one I had a leak with.
I always use RTV. in the half moons and the points where the vanos meets the head. BMW does that at the factory also, even outlined in bentley
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  #5  
Old 11-02-2012, 09:13 PM
rdc rdc is offline
Russell
Location: Lexington, KY
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95 E34 View Post
I always use RTV. in the half moons and the points where the vanos meets the head. BMW does that at the factory also, even outlined in bentley
Thanks for the hint. Where in Bentley did you see the use of RTV? I could not find it. Seems like a good idea.
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  #6  
Old 11-02-2012, 11:03 PM
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BMWFatherFigure BMWFatherFigure is offline
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When bolts or studs are (over) tightened the thread in an alloy head will 'draw' upwards. With the the bolt / stud removed counter sink all the threaded holes about 1/16" inch. Reassemble with Loctite 515 smeared on both sides of the gasket. If that does not work you have to consider the warped cover. DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN THIS TIME!!
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  #7  
Old 11-03-2012, 12:25 AM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWFatherFigure View Post
When bolts or studs are (over) tightened the thread in an alloy head will 'draw' upwards. With the the bolt / stud removed counter sink all the threaded holes about 1/16" inch. Reassemble with Loctite 515 smeared on both sides of the gasket. If that does not work you have to consider the warped cover. DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN THIS TIME!!
Please explain what you mean by threads 'drawing upwards'. And what do you mean by "counter sinking threaded holes" ?

Much obliged.
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  #8  
Old 11-08-2012, 05:37 PM
danzee danzee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95 E34 View Post
I always use RTV. in the half moons and the points where the vanos meets the head. BMW does that at the factory also, even outlined in bentley
I did the same and it has been bone dry. Used the OE gasket kit FWIW.
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  #9  
Old 11-09-2012, 04:43 AM
rdc rdc is offline
Russell
Location: Lexington, KY
 
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95 E34 View Post
I always use RTV. in the half moons and the points where the vanos meets the head. BMW does that at the factory also, even outlined in bentley
My indy took care of the issue. They did several things. The sent the valve cover out to have it flattened a very small amount by milling/sanding, replaced all 15 rubber seal washers, new OE gasket and yes they used a bit of sealant on the half moons and a couple other areas.

The last time I changed the gasket myself. I used a Felpro gasket, NO sealant and NO new seals. Felpro is good so I assume I did poor job.
Live and learn.
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1995 525i auto, 1/95 build, EAT chip, abt 234K miles, , HID, Lumbar, Oxford Green/Parchment, rebuilt trany @ 208K

Last edited by rdc; 11-09-2012 at 05:57 PM.
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  #10  
Old 11-09-2012, 07:47 AM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdc View Post
My indy took care of the issue. They did several things. The sent the valve cover out to have it flattened a very small amount by milling/sanding, replaced all 15 rubber seal washers, new OE gasket and yes they used a bit of sealant on the half moons and a couple other areas.

The last time I changed the gasket myselft. I used a Felpro gasket, NO sealant and NO new seals. Live and learn.
Do you think it was due to the sanding or the new gaskets? a combination?

RDC, I'd like to apologize. I misspoke before. The sealent tip was not in the bentley manual, rather in the Pelican Technical Article below.

VCG Replacement M50 VANOS

Quote:
The BMW factory manuals recommend adding some sealant to some leak-prone sections of the cylinder head. I chose to use Permatex High-Temp RTV, and it worked very well for sealing these areas. Specifically, the factory recommends adding sealant at the interface where the VANOS unit or front mounting timing chain cover meet (Figure 19 and Figure 20). They also recommend a small bit of sealant at the rear of the cover (Figure 21).
The above bolded section may be why I thought I saw it in bentley.

They outline the same procedure in the camshaft and timing article.

Cheers,
Joe
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Last edited by Monsignor; 11-09-2012 at 07:55 AM.
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  #11  
Old 11-09-2012, 08:22 AM
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1995i540 1995i540 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdc View Post
My indy took care of the issue. They did several things. The sent the valve cover out to have it flattened a very small amount by milling/sanding, replaced all 15 rubber seal washers, new OE gasket and yes they used a bit of sealant on the half moons and a couple other areas.

The last time I changed the gasket myselft. I used a Felpro gasket, NO sealant and NO new seals. Live and learn.
Your indy send your valve cover gasket to have it flattened because of VCG leak?

Your indy also suggested over tightening bolts that are one time use (I assume they have rubber boots and washers like M60 engine) to fix your leak?

If the bolts have washers and they did not replace the bolts as well I would ask for your money back, I would also get a torque wrench and double check the specifications.

I hope you do not them a lot for labor.



Also I think half moon thing is definitely in Bentley, I'm pretty sure I saw that there when I was doing my engine.
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  #12  
Old 11-09-2012, 08:43 AM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1995i540 View Post
Your indy send your valve cover gasket to have it flattened because of VCG leak?

Your indy also suggested over tightening bolts that are one time use (I assume they have rubber boots and washers like M60 engine) to fix your leak?

If the bolts have washers and they did not replace the bolts as well I would ask for your money back, I would also get a torque wrench and double check the specifications.

I hope you do not them a lot for labor.



Also I think half moon thing is definitely in Bentley, I'm pretty sure I saw that there when I was doing my engine.
I replaced all my gaskets when I did my valve cover, this includes new studs, bolts washers donut seals, valve cover gasket kit and RTV and torqued it down (two different torque wrenches to check each other) and it's leaking. I also had my valve cover powder coated so it wa exposed to high heat (they bake them) and prepping which involves sanding. I need to send mine out for leveling i think. Although the contact surface doesnt look touched, definitely no pain on it, but it is clean so maybe sanding.
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2003 350Z 88k mi
2014 F-150 0k mi

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  #13  
Old 11-09-2012, 05:37 PM
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1995i540 1995i540 is offline
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That's weird, how thin is your VCG? On M60 they are tanks and no way powder coating would do anything to those, had both sides coated as well.

I think it would be cheaper grabbing on off ebay instead of sending this one off. Honestly don't think anything wrong with your vcg but who knows.
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  #14  
Old 11-09-2012, 05:51 PM
rdc rdc is offline
Russell
Location: Lexington, KY
 
Join Date: May 2006
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Mein Auto: 1995 525iA
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1995i540 View Post
Your indy send your valve cover gasket to have it flattened because of VCG leak?

Your indy also suggested over tightening bolts that are one time use (I assume they have rubber boots and washers like M60 engine) to fix your leak?

If the bolts have washers and they did not replace the bolts as well I would ask for your money back, I would also get a torque wrench and double check the specifications.

I hope you do not them a lot for labor.



Also I think half moon thing is definitely in Bentley, I'm pretty sure I saw that there when I was doing my engine.

The milling/sanding may have not been truly needed IMO. It did not cost much and will it help ensure no leakage. I have used this shop for over 20 years on 3 BMWs. So they are trusted. I could have handled this myself. Just did not have time.
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  #15  
Old 11-09-2012, 05:55 PM
rdc rdc is offline
Russell
Location: Lexington, KY
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 881
Mein Auto: 1995 525iA
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95 E34 View Post
Do you think it was due to the sanding or the new gaskets? a combination?

RDC, I'd like to apologize. I misspoke before. The sealent tip was not in the bentley manual, rather in the Pelican Technical Article below.

VCG Replacement M50 VANOS



The above bolded section may be why I thought I saw it in bentley.

They outline the same procedure in the camshaft and timing article.

Cheers,
Joe
Thanks for the update regarding the source. I had seen it somewher before, just did not know where. From my indy shop it was told some mechanics do not use any sealant others use a little on VCG.
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  #16  
Old 11-09-2012, 05:56 PM
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1995i540 1995i540 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdc View Post
The milling/sanding may have not been truly needed IMO. It did not cost much and will it help ensure no leakage. I have used this shop for over 20 years on 3 BMWs. So they are trusted. I could have handled this myself. Just did not have time.
I guess, I'm still baffled they told you to overtorque the bolts to fix the leak... maybe VCG had to be straightened because of that

I actually did the same thing and got laughted at by BMW master tech from Bay Side BMW
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  #17  
Old 11-09-2012, 06:07 PM
rdc rdc is offline
Russell
Location: Lexington, KY
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1995i540 View Post
I guess, I'm still baffled they told you to overtorque the bolts to fix the leak... maybe VCG had to be straightened because of that

I actually did the same thing and got laughted at by BMW master tech from Bay Side BMW
I am confused. I do not remmember anyone telling me to overtorque the bolts. I "snugged" them down a bit on my own to see what happened. It seemed to just leaked more.
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  #18  
Old 11-09-2012, 06:23 PM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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Location: Pineapple Under the Sea
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1995i540 View Post
That's weird, how thin is your VCG? On M60 they are tanks and no way powder coating would do anything to those, had both sides coated as well.

I think it would be cheaper grabbing on off ebay instead of sending this one off. Honestly don't think anything wrong with your vcg but who knows.
Not very thin. And I'm not buying another one because I have this one powder coated. I'd rather just smooth it out. It doesn't hurt to do so. Not like we're taking a giant amount of material off of it.
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