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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
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  #26  
Old 05-15-2013, 01:32 PM
schoensel schoensel is offline
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Mein Auto: 2003 E65 730d
climate panel replacement: problem remains!!

Dear Nicoromag, dear all,

Thanks to the link with the pics on how to disassemble the dashboard, I succeeded together with my friend-mechanic to replace the climate panel by a second hand one. Unfortunately, the problem remains Maybe the second hand climate panel is also faulty, but what are the chances... (and, in contrast to what HD750Li said: this second hand panel does not change temperature values when being pressed on in contrast to the original panel, which tells me that the chances of the second hand panel being faulty are small...) Anyway, the problem only occurs when the outside temperature exceeds 16degs and almost only when the car has run at least a few kilometers on the highway or when it's been started and restarted a couple of times with short intervals. Im afraid I'll have to go to the very expensive dealer, who already told me they'll need a lot of time to sort this problem out (((
I found an electrical scheme of the cabin heating system, and I noticed there is a sensor, which provides info for the regulation of the flaps, which allows hot air to be sent to the driver's side. However, I suspect that sensor is part of the system, which is hidden under the main large black part of the dashboard right under the window... If that whole dashboard needs to be removed to replace that sensor...oh dear, I'll get broke by paying the dealer to do so, since I don't know how to replace that whole dashboard ((

Any ideas on the cause, then throw them at me, please!!

Thanks fpr any idea,

Koen

Last edited by schoensel; 05-15-2013 at 01:34 PM.
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  #27  
Old 05-15-2013, 09:58 PM
Nicoromag Nicoromag is offline
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I did change the regulator in addition to the climate panel, that may be less painful to change vs. disassembling the whole dashboard, plus that reg is known to go bad after this many km (160k+) it would be a smart, cost-conscious decision to replace that first.
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  #28  
Old 05-16-2013, 12:51 AM
schoensel schoensel is offline
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2003 E65 730d - sudden heat increase at driver's side only with AUTO on

Nicoromag, you have all the potential to become my hero! I totally missed you also replaced the regulator. What is that? I didn't see that on the German EBay. Do you mean the blower regulator? If so, then I doubt replacing that one will help, since the blowing of the amount of air has always been ok: it decreases/increases blowing when I turn the button on the climate panel, and when I press AUTO it starts to blow really hard as if to try to get cold air fast into the driver's cabin...although it's blowing hot air. Or, maybe you could be right, since according to this scheme I found http://parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com/s...ssembly=251384 , the heater temperature sensor (3) and the evaporator temperature sensor (4) plug into this regulator, which may send information to the climate panel. I know that the basic temperature regulation uses info from these sensors and there are such sensors for both left and right sides of the car.

So, now I'm very curious whether that regulator you are talking about is the part which you can find on this website link I pasted above...However, I'm wondering, isn't that regulator situated deep in the dashboard? In your last post above, it is suggested you didn't have to get so deep into the dashboard..., so I'm curious whether we are talking about the same regulator And, if so, where is that regulator situated then? How did you reach it without dismantling the whole dashboard?

Thanks so much for your quick response!

Koen-finding-hope-again.


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Last edited by schoensel; 05-16-2013 at 08:25 AM.
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  #29  
Old 05-16-2013, 08:58 AM
Nicoromag Nicoromag is offline
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It is the same component and it goes by regulator or final stage resistor, it is attached to the A/C motor underneath the glove box, this video shows you exactly how to replace the motor, but once you get the cover out you should be able to replace the resistor see around the 5:00 min mark is when he shows the resistor itself (I used it myself when I changed it) Note: you could use some sewing machine oil to lube the motor fan's shaft to reduce whirring noise while you're at it. You should be able to find a regulator/resistor online, I was lucky to find one in new condition thru Ebay, here's one for sale:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-BMW-E65-...3364e4&vxp=mtr

It does take about 45min and lots of cursing especially for the pesky little screws that hold the main cover, but at the end it's all worthy!

Godspeed Koen!


Last edited by Nicoromag; 05-16-2013 at 10:15 AM.
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  #30  
Old 05-16-2013, 12:39 PM
schoensel schoensel is offline
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regulator

Nicoromag, you're the man!! Thanks a lot for such quick response again!

I took a look at that movie and it looks like peanuts compared to replacing the climate panel, so no issues there, I expect. I do wonder though whether you had any problems with speed of air flow before you replaced both parts? Because I don't have that problem and that makes me doubt whether this regulator is part of the problem :/

Interestingly, I think I found out why my problem only occurs when the outside temperature increases (say from about 17-18degrees Celsius): apparently, when the climate panel commands to cool the cabin via the face vents, it also opens the hot air valve to the footwell. Although I can imagine it does so to prevent the driver to get frozen feet, something goes wrong in either the valve opening, which opens too much to the hot air stream or the cold air valve is not opened. This opening and closing of those valves is commanded by the climate panel, so Im surprised why replacing the panel doens't help... However, the panel does receive temperature information from the evaporator (cold air) and the heater (hot air) to control the valve operation, and as I posted earlier the temperature sensors of the evaporator and the heater may be connected to this regulator you talk about.

Oh man, what a riddle this all is. I think I should just replace that regulator and see what happens...you agree?

Thanks again,

Koen
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  #31  
Old 05-17-2013, 09:09 AM
Nicoromag Nicoromag is offline
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I agree, because I did not have problems with speed of air flow, which tells me that our symptoms are very similar.
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  #32  
Old 05-17-2013, 12:20 PM
schoensel schoensel is offline
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OK, I got myself a second hand regulator from German ebay for 34 including shipping. There's a 14-day guarantee...so, sounds like a good deal. I checked with my dealer and the component is the right one for me.
Then, I'm bidding on another climate panel, because the one I have now is not the correct one, since it doesn't allow me to command the rear window roller. Again, I checked with my dealer and the one I'm bidding on should be the right one.

Nicoromag, what I was wondering was whether you had your climate panel reprogrammed for your car or not? For instance, the climate panel I'm bidding on is for a 740 fuel with preheating option, while I'm driving a 730 diesel without preheating option.

Cheers and keep your fingers crossed, since the bidding ends on Sunday midday...

Koen
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  #33  
Old 05-19-2013, 05:53 AM
Nicoromag Nicoromag is offline
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I did not need to re-program the climate panel to make it work, it's plug and play. I did change both components at the same time without even putting the key in the ignition (paranoia? :P) And yes, for all I know there are either the panels for cars with the window rollers or not, no grey areas in this case so that new panel should work just fine as long as is an E65 compatible part.
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  #34  
Old 05-29-2013, 10:44 AM
schoensel schoensel is offline
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2003 E65 730d - sudden heat increase at driver's side only with AUTO on

Well......yesterday evening we built in this ventilator resistor/regulator but I'm afraid nothing changed... The nasty thing is that the weather doesn't get warm here (max 17degs Celsius and its almost summer!!) so it's difficult to test. But I noticed that when after driving I the city for 15 minutes and I suddenly I pulled up hard to cross a cross-road fast, the heating system again blew hot hot air through the front window vents!!!! Aaaaarrrggghhh! The only thing that remains is to replace the climate panel because the one currently built in does not operate my rear window screen. Then I'm going to let the dealer overwrite all the software of the car and keep my fingers crossed but I'm not very hopeful. In my experience, I always have bad luck with such software-electrical issues...it never goes easy ((
Currently, I'm majorly disappointed in BMW and I'm seriously considering to switch back to Volvo. Btw, without any reason, the cd-changer refuses to operate (play and eject)...sure, just keep on piling everything that can break down!!! (()


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  #35  
Old 05-29-2013, 02:59 PM
Nicoromag Nicoromag is offline
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Sorry to hear... hopefully the right climate panel will fix all the issues, I can imagine after going thru the pain of replacing that resistor! And I feel your pain, it's so frustrating when you follow all steps and still doesn't work out!
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  #36  
Old 05-29-2013, 11:25 PM
schoensel schoensel is offline
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Mein Auto: 2003 E65 730d
2003 E65 730d - sudden heat increase at driver's side only with AUTO on

Thanks for the support, man. I doubt whether replacement of climate panel or software update will help since it didnt matter in your case. Anyway, i won't have time to replace the climate panel until 2 weeks Monday. As soon as inreplaced it and went by the dealer, I'll post an update.

Thanks!


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  #37  
Old 06-17-2013, 12:41 PM
schoensel schoensel is offline
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2003 E65 730d - sudden heat increase at driver's side only with AUTO on

Hi Nicoromag, hi all,

So, I had the right climate panel built in and the software overwritten/updated. Although I haven't driven many kilometres yet, it's been warm enough here to test the climate control. Up until now all is going fine so I'm hopeful. Furthermore, I have the impression the AUTO-function is functioning normal for the first time, namely guiding the air through different vents depending on the temperature in- and outside the car. For the first time since i bought this car, I see these airflows change on the board screen! So, my suspicion is that the software of the previous climate panel somehow got stuck on a specific setting and didnt take the measures of the sensors into account anymore.

In conclusion, what worked for me? Replace ventilator resistor/regulator and climate panel and rewrite software.

Thanks to all who helped me out and supported me...especially you, Nicoromag!

K.


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  #38  
Old 06-18-2013, 07:32 AM
Nicoromag Nicoromag is offline
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That's great news! I knew it couldn't be too much of a complicated matter especially after changing the panel + reg. Don't know about the re-programming, but better to refresh the settings and drivers to be sure. Glad to be of assistance in this dilemma. Enjoy you A/C!
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  #39  
Old 06-20-2013, 12:14 PM
schoensel schoensel is offline
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2003 E65 730d - sudden heat increase at driver's side only with AUTO on

Nononono!!!!!!!! The problem recurred after driving for 30mins on highway in 18degrees Celsius!!! I just don't believe it!! The difference before replacing the panel is that I have now control over the airflows but the problem is that it blows outside air temperature through the body air vents instead if airconditioned.... This is such a disappointment...especially since no mechanic has any idea what is going on. ((




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  #40  
Old 06-20-2013, 09:35 PM
Nicoromag Nicoromag is offline
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Aww man... Sorry to hear... I guess this one falls into the WTF category... I mean there's nothing else to replace isn't there? Keep your chin up! By the way, did you ever get a/c cold temperature? Maybe the freon's low? I did have to add a couple of cans to my system after changing the panel and reg...
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  #41  
Old 06-20-2013, 11:43 PM
schoensel schoensel is offline
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Mein Auto: 2003 E65 730d
2003 E65 730d - sudden heat increase at driver's side only with AUTO on

Yeah, indeed, the WTF-category...nicely put

I seriously doubt it's the freon level since I had the system refilled and pressure controlled exactly 1 year ago. Furthermore, the passenger's side and the rear compartment does get airco-air.
Well, of course, there are multiple sensors which can be flawed...the system is quite complex. Unfortunately, so complex no mechanic can solve special issues anymore, it seems
Anyway, I'll go to the dealer and I want to sit down with their best mechanic and I want plausible hypotheses before they start replacing parts or rip the car open.


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  #42  
Old 06-22-2013, 01:54 AM
schoensel schoensel is offline
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2003 E65 730d - sudden heat increase at driver's side only with AUTO on

Ok, since the problem of sudden heat increase at driver's side is still present, I thought of describing the conditions under which this occurs more precisely.

Only when it's +16 degrees Celsius outside AND the engine is warm (highway drive or long city drive) AND the climate system is in cooling mode (blows airconditioned air into the cabin) I receive without any warning (lights blinking, change on on-board monitor, etc) first warm air blown to the windows, then after about 30s outside air through the left driver's air vent then after 30s outside air through the middle console driver's air vent. Stopping the car, turning the engine off, locking the car, then unlocking the car and restarting the engine does ONLY help when I let the engine cool down (in hot weather, I wait one hour, in 20 degrees weather, I wait 30 minutes).
I already replaced the climate panel, which was definitely faulty, had the panel reprogrammed, and I replaced the ventilator resistor/regulator.

It seems to me that either a sensor or other part is influenced by the engine heat and then does not work properly, so which climate system part is near enough to the engine to be influenced by it? Or, is there a climate system part which is influenced by the amount of engine cooling and when the engine is cooled maximumly then this climate system part does not function properly anymore?

Oh guys, any ideas/thoughts would be so welcome here! In 3 weeks I'm going on holidays to very hot weather and well have to drive 3000km and i don't want to do that without ac-air blowing on me...

Thanks!!


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  #43  
Old 06-22-2013, 06:38 AM
schoensel schoensel is offline
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Mein Auto: 2003 E65 730d
2003 E65 730d - sudden heat increase at driver's side only with AUTO on

Ok guys, sorry I'm back but I discovered something which may get us closer to solving my problem.
I am always amazed that my problem only occurs when it's +16 degrees outside and that the engine needs to be hot. Then I thought: what about this Rest-warmth function when te car is stationary? Because this function only works when the engine is hot. So, not to my big surprise I actually succeeded in replicating my problem with the engine switched off and the Rest-warmth on after a long drive in 20 degrees Celsius!! When I had the car in a 20 degrees outside temperature, engine switched off, key inserted, and Rest-warmth function activated I turned the temperature at both drivers and passengers side to 17 degrees and both sides on AUTO, and there you had it: very hot air blown mildly to drivers feet and warm air through body air vents at drivers side, while no hot air to passengers feet and relatively cold air through body air vents of passengers side!! Still, the question remains: why?

Interestingly, this problem does not occur when I activate the "independent ventilation"-function (Rest-function is of course OFF), since then I get outside air both at drivers and passengers sides!

So, it really has to do with mixing hot and cold air and maybe with a faulty Rest-function? But, which part is faulty then? Which components are involved in this Rest-function?

And the quest continues....


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  #44  
Old 06-22-2013, 06:49 AM
schoensel schoensel is offline
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2003 E65 730d - sudden heat increase at driver's side only with AUTO on

Sorry, I forgot to add that I could replicate the problem under the condition when activating the Rest-function BEFORE the problem occurred when I was driving the car! This suggest that there is an underlying constant problem (faulty component)...

Koen


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  #45  
Old 07-07-2013, 11:06 AM
schoensel schoensel is offline
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2003 E65 730d - sudden heat increase at driver's side only with AUTO on

Well, the dealer mechanics have been measuring the climate system while driving the car and they measured a sudden increase in temperature up to 73degrees Celsius! So, they concluded the heater crane is broken. On Tuesday they're going to replace that piece and hopefully it'll be ok then. I'll keep you posted!

Koen


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  #46  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:15 AM
schoensel schoensel is offline
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Mein Auto: 2003 E65 730d
2003 E65 730d - sudden heat increase at driver's side only with AUTO on

Solved!! The culprit of all the misery was: a faulty heater crane! By measuring the temperatures of all the climate sensors, the head mechanic at my dealer measured a sudden increase in temperature at the drivers side up to 72degrees Celsius!!

So, I hope my long thread including all my ruminating on what was going on may serve future E65-drivers!

Koen


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