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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
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  #1  
Old 04-23-2015, 11:48 AM
spencer1155 spencer1155 is offline
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I can't believe BMW is part of this

Has anyone else seen or heard about this craziness?

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/gm-for...160000229.html

There is also an online petition against this here

https://act.eff.org/action/fight-for...epair-your-car
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  #2  
Old 04-23-2015, 12:40 PM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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Heard about it yesterday. Can't say I'm surprised that they are part of it-- the owners manuals neglect to provide even basic maintenance information anymore. Carmakers are increasingly becoming more like consumer electroncis makers where if you "crack the seal" its not warrantied.
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  #3  
Old 04-23-2015, 01:43 PM
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ezaircon4jc ezaircon4jc is offline
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What GM, and even tractor companies like John Deere, argues is that you, as an owner, donít actually own your car. Rather, youíre sort of just borrowing it for an extended amount of time and paying for the rights to use the technology.
REALLY????? Then I guess they'll be refunding the money I paid....... RIIIIIIGHT.....

So an owner isn't really an owner????? I guess the money I paid isn't really money, either. Had I known that I would have raided a "RISK" game......
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  #4  
Old 04-23-2015, 01:57 PM
spencer1155 spencer1155 is offline
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Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
REALLY????? Then I guess they'll be refunding the money I paid....... RIIIIIIGHT.....

So an owner isn't really an owner????? I guess the money I paid isn't really money, either. Had I known that I would have raided a "RISK" game......
I know it is absurd!
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  #5  
Old 04-23-2015, 02:03 PM
NMSDAD1 NMSDAD1 is offline
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If this passes and I own a car that the MFG went out of business what I am I to do? Or do I really own the car then?
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  #6  
Old 04-23-2015, 02:17 PM
MikeEby MikeEby is offline
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How the hell would they ever enforce such a law? Car repair police...Drop that wrench or I'll shoot! Total silliness....Sounds like a Monty Python sketch.

The same links have made their way to the Corvette forums. Perhaps someone's belated April Fools Joke?

People will always fix their own cars....I have not paid repair bill for a car in probably 20 years that doesn't mean I haven't bought parts or had some sub-contract work done, but not as far as someone turning a wrench on my iron. If it out of warranty it's not going to happen.


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  #7  
Old 04-23-2015, 02:29 PM
st_o_p st_o_p is offline
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It's not really a surprise. The DMCA (the law the article mentions) that they want to modify to cover cars is an abomination passed when the MAFIAA (also known as MPAA and RIAA) greased Washington politicians to screw the citizens. It says things like for example that if you bought a CD and then ripped a song from it to listen on your personal computer - without doing anything else or giving it to anybody - you in effect stole that song and are a criminal.

So why not the car companies jump on that bandwaggon if they can?
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  #8  
Old 04-23-2015, 02:50 PM
kc1953 kc1953 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
REALLY????? Then I guess they'll be refunding the money I paid....... RIIIIIIGHT.....

So an owner isn't really an owner????? I guess the money I paid isn't really money, either. Had I known that I would have raided a "RISK" game......
I think technically what it means is that while you own the car, part of the car includes certain technology that you have the right to use, and that right transfers to any owner, but that you cannot modify.
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  #9  
Old 04-23-2015, 03:09 PM
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ezaircon4jc ezaircon4jc is offline
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I think technically what it means is that while you own the car, part of the car includes certain technology that you have the right to use, and that right transfers to any owner, but that you cannot modify.
That's like saying I don't really own my stereo, or DVD player (or DVD's for that matter) or TV, or any electronic device for that matter.

Typical gummint overreach!!!!
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  #10  
Old 04-23-2015, 04:10 PM
spencer1155 spencer1155 is offline
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Originally Posted by MikeEby View Post

The same links have made their way to the Corvette forums. Perhaps someone's belated April Fools Joke?

Mike
It sounds like an April Fools joke but it's not.
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  #11  
Old 04-23-2015, 04:26 PM
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Third thread.
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  #12  
Old 04-23-2015, 06:20 PM
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marsb007 marsb007 is offline
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Didn't Apple losing the jailbreak suit kinda end this argument as well? My phone, my right to do what I please with it, including jailbreak... I think it's just a novel idea which will be shot down very quickly. They'll have so many suits they won't know what to do with if this passes.
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  #13  
Old 04-23-2015, 06:31 PM
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Sonicendeavor Sonicendeavor is offline
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I was talking to a BMW master mechanic a couple of weeks ago who told me that the new M3 and M4 actually contact BMW if they detect an ECU mod.
E.T. Phone home

I can understand this from a warranty perspective. Automakers warranty a car with a known software setup that has been thoroughly tested. Owner modification of the software can cause unintended consequences which can lead to added warranty expense as well as added liability should the modification cause a safety related malfunction, unless the automaker has a way of proving the software was modified, or overridden with an addon device. I don't agree with making it illegal, but certainly the manufacturer should be able to deny warranty or be released from liability.
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  #14  
Old 04-23-2015, 08:02 PM
lindros2 lindros2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Sonicendeavor View Post
I was talking to a BMW master mechanic a couple of weeks ago who told me that the new M3 and M4 actually contact BMW if they detect an ECU mod.
E.T. Phone home
My GT-R did this - without the telematics/phone home part.

There was a separate black box for performance-related reasons (especially things which could accelerate wear and cause warranty claims notably around the transmission).

Even though it technically logged and reported on ECU mods, no one ever had an issue.

If you tear apart the transmission or there are metal shavings/shards found in an M3/M4 warranty investigation, the data will definitely come into play.

But otherwise, it's much to-do about nothing.
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  #15  
Old 04-23-2015, 08:06 PM
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ezaircon4jc ezaircon4jc is offline
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Originally Posted by marsb007 View Post
Didn't Apple losing the jailbreak suit kinda end this argument as well? My phone, my right to do what I please with it, including jailbreak... I think it's just a novel idea which will be shot down very quickly. They'll have so many suits they won't know what to do with if this passes.
And they'll never regulate/tax the internet.......


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonicendeavor View Post
I was talking to a BMW master mechanic a couple of weeks ago who told me that the new M3 and M4 actually contact BMW if they detect an ECU mod.
E.T. Phone home

I can understand this from a warranty perspective. Automakers warranty a car with a known software setup that has been thoroughly tested. Owner modification of the software can cause unintended consequences which can lead to added warranty expense as well as added liability should the modification cause a safety related malfunction, unless the automaker has a way of proving the software was modified, or overridden with an add-on device. I don't agree with making it illegal, but certainly the manufacturer should be able to deny warranty or be released from liability.
That's why, IMHO, Dinan is probably the best route.
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  #16  
Old 04-23-2015, 08:30 PM
d geek d geek is offline
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Ridiculously overblown reaction in the OP article. Starts out talking about getting under the car with a wrench being made illegal, but this is really only limited to changing the embedded software as proposed in the enforcement of DMCA. Not such a big deal in my opinion.
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