X3 or X5?

I know many of you had compared with X3 when you were buying X5. I'm in the same situation now. I plan to have one kid next year and another one a year or two later. So I need a car that can seat parents, two kids and another adult passenger. I found that X5 does not provide much more space. And some comments here say that the third row is too tiny even for toddlers. I'm wondering what make you people choose X5 over X3.

Any input is appreciated!

Originally Posted by kisas

I know many of you had compared with X3 when you were buying X5. I'm in the same situation now. I plan to have one kid next year and another one a year or two later. So I need a car that can seat parents, two kids and another adult passenger. I found that X5 does not provide much more space. And some comments here say that the third row is too tiny even for toddlers. I'm wondering what make you people choose X5 over X3.

Any input is appreciated!

• You can get a diesel in the X5. Not yet available for th X3
• You CAN get 5 adults into a X5. You can NOT to that with the X3 (way too narrow for 3 adults in the back)
• The X5 is a good bit bigger and handles differently (being built off a different chassis).
• The X3 is OK and fine as long as the kids are small AND you don't need to take grandma with you on any long trips.

Thanks ! a few following up questions.

Originally Posted by ndabunka

• You can get a diesel in the X5. Not yet available for th X3

What's the benefit over a gas engine car?

Originally Posted by ndabunka

• You CAN get 5 adults into a X5. You can NOT to that with the X3 (way too narrow for 3 adults in the back)

5 is a little bit short. 6 would be great.

Originally Posted by ndabunka

• The X5 is a good bit bigger and handles differently (being built off a different chassis).

what are the advantages ? safer? I saw a BMW X5 2014 spy video, very impressive. But I guess you have to opt for the most expensive packages, such as bigger engine, sporty package. But at the end of day, I won't race with this car.

Originally Posted by ndabunka

• The X3 is OK and fine as long as the kids are small AND you don't need to take grandma with you on any long trips.

Did you consider buying a X3 and then upgrade to X5 when kids grow up?

Check the BOLD Points

Originally Posted by kisas

Thanks ! a few following up questions.


What's the benefit over a gas engine car?
If your thinking this is the Prius of X5s. Not really. Diesels are most effective for people involved in city stop and go traffic. The amount of torque (425 ft/lbs) really is felt in stop and go. When passing lanes, your gonna be dead even, or less with the N55.


5 is a little bit short. 6 would be great.
IF you looking for 6, your only option in BMW is the X5. the X5 you can comfortably fit 5. 3rd row is a joke, and even kids hate it.

If your looking for 6 but not BMW, try the Q7 (not really bigger) or GL from Merc. There are more reasonable options in the Asian luxury market. Acura MDX or Lexus G460.

But since your looking for a 6 seater in BMW, X5 is the only option (more like your settling for the biggest they offer).



what are the advantages ? safer? I saw a BMW X5 2014 spy video, very impressive. But I guess you have to opt for the most expensive packages, such as bigger engine, sporty package. But at the end of day, I won't race with this car.
BMW is safe no doubt. The 2014 is still a couple of months away.

If you can wait, I would stay with a short X5 lease, then switch into a second year 2015 X5. The kinks are (better than 1st Model Year) worked out. In addition, the in-car tech (that includes powertrain, infotainment, and etc) is probably gonna be more advance. Also the 2014+ X5 may have a more useable third row.

One think I would say is, there really is no guarantee of the Next-gen X5 having a third row. BMW is constantly expanding their vehicle portfolio, so I wouldn't be surprised if they start offering a X7 to go against the GL. Pure Speculation.

Also simply stated, BMW has always made the base car relatively affordable. However to get the exotic tech, and some of it is a first in class, or a class leader your gonna pay.



Did you consider buying a X3 and then upgrade to X5 when kids grow up?

Most buyers tend do this, however if you from the get go need 5 seats, the x3 isnt going to work. Their was a recent thread about this question in the X3 forum. So check it out.

Also check out the reviews available on youtube. specifically these two.



Most car reviews tend to focus on the front of the cabin. This British one, really does a tour of the vehicle. They have tons for the Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Porsche. Focus on the transmission tunnel and its space eating in the X3.

Hope that helps!

Originally Posted by kisas

Thanks ! a few following up questions.

What's the benefit over a gas engine car?

Are you SERIOUS? The typical SUV that can carry 6 people comfortably averages around 16MPG. This includes Ford Expeditions, Chevy Tahoes, BMW X5, Audi Q7, Lexus GX460, Merc GLs, Porsche Cayenne, and on and on and on. The newer cars are implementing things like "power shut off when stopped at a light" in efforts to get those vehicles about 20MPG averages. So gasoline-powered SUVs are (in general) gas HOGs that people have been running away from for the past 4 or 5 years as fuel prices have risen.

In stark contrast are the Hybrid SUV's which can get up to as much as 30MPG but that daily fuel efficiency comes at a significantly higher price tag. In 2006 I bought my wife a new $42K Highlander Hybrid Limited to replace a 2004 Lexus GX470 that was getting 17MPG driven conservatively. The HiHy was "suppose" to have gotten 31MPG on the interstate (that is what the window sticker showed) but those ratings were found to be inaccurate and we only average 26MPG. This is a GREAT option for someone who has a stop & go (under 15MPH much of the time) commute as the extra power from the battery helps A LOT in the initial acceleration. However, Hybrids are VERY expensive. As an example, a 2012 Porsche Hybrid Cayenne SUV is about $20K(25%) more expensive than a regular v6 version but the fuel economy is not anywhere NEAR the equivalent 25% improvement (more like about 8% better fuel economy). So dealer's of Hybrid SUVs have discovered (surprise) that few buyers are wiling to pay 25% more for a miniscule improvement in fuel economy. This is where the diesels come in. For about a 4% price increase over the standard engines, you can get a diesel version which can average BETTER fuel economy than the Hybrids IF... you drive a normal mix of 50/50 highway to city driving. I am averaging about 24.5 MPG on my new X5 diesel. The sales price of my "well equipped" X5d was ~$55K. The exact same configuration on a gasoline version of this SUV would have been $61K INVOICE (both discounted based on dealer incentives) so the diesel version was actually CHEAPER & I get 20% better fuel economy. In addition, diesels have MUCH stronger pulling power so if towing a boat, camper, motorcycle of car trailer interest you than the Diesel is a MUCH better option than the standard 6-cylinder options. In many cases, gasoline buyers often have to buy a more expensive v8 version of the same car in order to get anywhere NEAR the power of the Diesel engines and then they are getting even WORSE fuel economy. There is a reason that Diesel is the preferred fuel in Europe (as you can see in the above video, you CAN get the diesels in the european versions of the X3 but you can't get that 45MPG version here in the states, sorry). It will become the same here in the US...eventually.

Originally Posted by kisas

5 is a little bit short. 6 would be great.

Then you DON'T want a X6. You are going to need something larger and ALL of those are more expensive. Look @ the Q7 TDI or the Volkswagon Tourag which are IMHO he best bang for the buck for a 6-seater SUV.

Originally Posted by kisas

what are the advantages ? safer? I saw a BMW X5 2014 spy video, very impressive. But I guess you have to opt for the most expensive packages, such as bigger engine, sporty package. But at the end of day, I won't race with this car.

Sorry but I don't understand your question. Advantages over what? X5 over a competitor? Any SUV vs. another, etc? Options are "just that", Options. You can leave them off or buy them depending on your interest and ability to pay. Of course there are differing engines for differing manufacturers but that doesn't mean that you have to buy the RACE (/M version) of those SUVs.

Originally Posted by kisas

Did you consider buying a X3 and then upgrade to X5 when kids grow up?

Been there, done that. We bought a Lexus RX330 when the kids were younger. When the kids got older & I was able to get a business credit for buying (and using) a larger, heavier SUV in my business (50% of the time), I bought the GX470 which was VERY NICE and my wife still liked the best. When fuel prices started reaching $4.40/gallon during President Bush's tenor in office, we decided to buy the 7 passenger Toyota Highlander Hybrid with a 3rd row seat only a pair of 8 year olds could use (as outlined above). Now that our youngest is turning 10, I have bought the 5 passenger X5 (we don't need more than 5 even with grandma as it's just me, my wife & our 2 boys).

My advice would be to "buy what you can afford and skip planning for replacing something in the future" because...you NEVER KNOW what the future will bring & if you wait until the "next best thing" comes out, you will end up never buying anything at all because there will ALWAYS be something better in the future...forever and ever...

Get a Chevy Tahoe Hybrid. It has the space you need, the MPG and it's less expensive than the BMW.

Originally Posted by gresch

Get a Chevy Tahoe Hybrid. It has the space you need, the MPG and it's less expensive than the BMW.

They are actually AS expensive with the 4x4 version STARTING @ $57K & get significantly poorer fuel economy (only 20/23MPG)
http://www.chevrolet.com/tahoe-hybri...hybrid%20tahoe

IF you looking for 6, your only option in BMW is the X5. the X5 you can comfortably fit 5. 3rd row is a joke, and even kids hate it.

If your looking for 6 but not BMW, try the Q7 (not really bigger) or GL from Merc. There are more reasonable options in the Asian luxury market. Acura MDX or Lexus G460.

But since your looking for a 6 seater in BMW, X5 is the only option (more like your settling for the biggest they offer).

What? My nephew loves the 3rd row back seats

He is 5 year and 11 months old. He loves the idea that it is his own little space. You do have to move on the second row up. So the adult will have to get used with reduced leg room. Otherwise, I was able to carry 4 adult, one baby seat, and one 5 year old.

I got the 3rd row to get self leveling suspension and the occasion use of 3rd row with my nephew. The self leveling suspension helps with towing and comfort.

GL is the way to go to have reasonable back seat. I hate to say it. If you really want to fit people, you can't beat Mini-vans. Its far more sensible people movers.

Here is a list of reason why I picked X5 vs. X3.
1. Adaptive Drive - Adaptive Suspension + Adaptive anti-roll bar
2. Better exterior and interior looks.
3. Feels more luxuriously with BMW X5 than BMW X3 in options and function.
4. Third row seats makes it more practical as a long distance travel vehicle.

Here is the reason why I still like BMW X3.
1. Gets a brand new Navigation next year in April time frame with all new Intel Atom which promises to be much faster than the current 600 MHz ARM with neat new stuff.
2. It is fast especially with 6 cylinder options. BMW X5 can't beat it. It is just too heavy.
3. Small car = better visibility and generally better physics. You have to use a lot of technology to make X5 almost like X3. That is why is nice about X3.

I think it is a matter of what you really want out of a car.

I'll just make a comment that people thinking about how many seat they need REALLY need to consider carefully. If you will be regularly transporting 6 adults, then skip the X5.

But if you will have 4 adults, 2 kids- and then only for trips under an hour and a few times a year, that is a different thing. (I dont have the 3rd row in the X5, bud did in the MDX and the kids -just out of boosters- fought over it.)

To buy a large beast to be able to carry the crew for 3 summer vacations over the next 6 years is probably not a great plan.

So noodle out what it really needs to do...

(And I am a poor example- my X5 spends 95+ percent of its life driviong a 105lb woman around... Give or talk 50 lbs of food or horse gear in the back!)

GL

A

If you need to transport a lot of people (more than 5) in comfort - a minivan is a better choice than any SUV
As for why we chose our X5 (with Diesel engine) - it has better MPG in our driving conditions (mostly city) than any other BMW SUV with V6 or V8 engine and the diesel fuel price is slightly cheaper than the premium gasoline here, the X5 has excellent seats (the Multi-Contour seats... Only Cayenne has equally good optional seats) and the hydraulic power steering which is appropriate for a BMW car and has excellent feedback at any speed. I don't think X3 has any of these

Hi guys, thanks a lot for all your comments. They are very helpful!

Now I tend to choose X3 after reading all your opinions. That's probably what we really need now. I was thinking a big car that can carry 6 people. But even X5 is not the best choice for packing 6 people for a long trip. And we don't have 6 people in the car for a long trip often, maybe one or two times a year. In that case, I would rent a van. Thanks for helping me straighten it out.

But eventually we will get a X5 when kids get older, with diesel engine

I'm considering only BMW or Audi, because of the safety reputation of German cars, especially after I watched the videos showing BMW making turns in the snow. Am I biased?

The last question: Is it safer to be in a larger and heavier car, say X5, than a smaller car, say X3, if an accident happens? Is the bulky body one of the reasons you bought X5?

Originally Posted by Ripred

If you need to transport a lot of people (more than 5) in comfort - a minivan is a better choice than any SUV
As for why we chose our X5 (with Diesel engine) - it has better MPG in our driving conditions (mostly city) than any other BMW SUV with V6 or V8 engine and the diesel fuel price is slightly cheaper than the premium gasoline here, the X5 has excellent seats (the Multi-Contour seats... Only Cayenne has equally good optional seats) and the hydraulic power steering which is appropriate for a BMW car and has excellent feedback at any speed. I don't think X3 has any of these

But X5 with Diesel is significantly more expensive than a X3 with standard packages, and X3 already satisfies our needs in two years. However, if the price difference is not that big, I would go for a X5, with a diesel engine!

Originally Posted by kisas

Hi guys, thanks a lot for all your comments. They are very helpful!

Now I tend to choose X3 after reading all your opinions. That's probably what we really need now. I was thinking a big car that can carry 6 people. But even X5 is not the best choice for packing 6 people for a long trip. And we don't have 6 people in the car for a long trip often, maybe one or two times a year. In that case, I would rent a van. Thanks for helping me straighten it out.

But eventually we will get a X5 when kids get older, with diesel engine

I'm considering only BMW or Audi, because of the safety reputation of German cars, especially after I watched the videos showing BMW making turns in the snow. Am I biased?

The last question: Is it safer to be in a larger and heavier car, say X5, than a smaller car, say X3, if an accident happens? Is the bulky body one of the reasons you bought X5?

I have done a lot of research between BMW X3 and Q5 since I was choosing between the two. Here is my conclusions. Remember, I picked X5 in the end because I feel I want more of the X5 goodies.

BMW X3: Pro
1. Can get dynamic dampers with very little add on. Audi Q5 does not have it at all until you get to prestige options.
2. BMW X3 has better 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engine in terms of fuel efficiency and performance.
3. BMW is sportier because of better weight distributions. The power train is very powerful and able to carry if you are willing to live with the initial lag that people mentioned.

Audi Q5: Pro
1. Cheaper than comparable equipped BMW X3 by a few ks.
2. More luxurious interior if you like the look and feel. I found Audi to be better looking than X3 but I prefer the look and feel of X5.
3. 2013 has really nice MMI that does WiFi hotspot and connectivity through T-mobile HSDA+ network. BMW? EDGE in this day and age?

Some differences:
1. BMW uses electronic brakes to distribute the torque in slipping case. It is faster response than mechanical system so it supposed to be better. The Audi uses limited slip differential which is as good but slow to response. I personally don't care since I don't see snow unless I want to. It was never a factor.

For me, X3 wins because of dynamic dampers and I don't care for all the other luxury and pampering that Q5 has. X3 wins by a huge margin.

Originally Posted by kisas

I'm considering only BMW or Audi, because of the safety reputation of German cars, especially after I watched the videos showing BMW making turns in the snow. Am I biased?

The last question: Is it safer to be in a larger and heavier car, say X5, than a smaller car, say X3, if an accident happens? Is the bulky body one of the reasons you bought X5?

You should not misguide yourself about "safety reputation" - many of the other manufacturers from other countries are just as safe and perhaps more reliable Same goes for vehicle size and weight - it doesn't matter at all, all that matters is how engineers design the body to absorb and redistribute the impact forces. Look at this video of "big" and "small" car's crash test:

Have a vasectomy and buy an M3. You will have lots more $ without kids.

There are some great options out there besides the aforementioned Audi/MB/BMW group. The Volvo XC90 easily handles 7 (and the kids fight over the third row) gets decent mileage has a great safety rep and is something you would not be ashamed to park in the line at the Country Day School with the SUV/Minivan drop off/pick up parade. Full disclosure - in spite of growing up with BMWs and MBs both daughters opted for Volvos - XC70 and XC90 for their own kids. You will not get 6 folks in a Cayenne - 5 with some uncomfort to the middle seat -- 4 is optimum and comfortable. Dodge/Jeep are bringing out a diesel in MY13 one for the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the other (probably not until '14) is the three row Durango. Both excellent platforms developed by MB when they owned Chrysler -- virtually the same underpinnings as the ML/GL/R class that are built here. The engine is a turbo V6 diesel of about 240 hp with gobs of torque sourced from VM Motori a respected mfgr owned jointly by Fiat and GM. Both will use the ZF 8 speed transmission for exceptional highway mileage. Not a bad deal at about 2/3rds the price of X5d. Since that engine plant is owned in part by GM it would not tax the imagination much to envision the same mill being used in one of the General's SUV offerings. The Suburban for one cries out for a return to oil burning and it would do wonders for the triplets (GMC Acadia/Buick/Chev) as well. Back on topic -- the X3 will be just fine for one kid and the assorted impedimentia that travels with them as long as the car seat fits! Be sure to check that out -- you may have to buy a car seat to fit the car. The rear facing seat is the one that seems to use up the most rear seat room. Good luck, and when the second child is coming then you will be ready to move up to a three row unit. You will need it!

Originally Posted by kisas

I know many of you had compared with X3 when you were buying X5. I'm in the same situation now. I plan to have one kid next year and another one a year or two later. So I need a car that can seat parents, two kids and another adult passenger. I found that X5 does not provide much more space. And some comments here say that the third row is too tiny even for toddlers. I'm wondering what make you people choose X5 over X3.

Any input is appreciated!

I also contemplated the X3 and X5 and same as you I found the interior to be very similar in space. What made me choose the X5 is how it looked and the X3 interior looked cheap.

Looks like you have decided on the smaller SUV. Good choice but now you have more options. Please DO go take a look at the Q5 Prestige (ONLY). The reason I say ONLY is because it is what an Audi is SUPPOSE to be. Full luxury with leather dash and all features. Record that price point and then go look at the X3 & it's price point. You will find that the Audi will be FAR nicer on the inside and with the features than the X3 unless...you are trying to RACE the vehicle...LOL

If I had thought that the Q5 would have been large enough for our needs, I would have bought it 3 months ago. They are clearing out the 2012 on those so deals can still be had (I think). They are more fuel efficient than the X3s as well with the 2.0 twin turbo version.

However, once you change categories, you bring other options into the mix. The Lexus RX350 is the LEADER in that space and has been for many, many years. They DO offer a Hybrid version which is equivalent to the Highlander Hybrid we own & which I outlined the economy of in my posts above. Neither BMW or Audi offer a Hybrid in that vehicle yet. To further complicate things you may even want to consider waiting about 4 months when Porsche will be offering the 2013 Macan. That is essentially a Q5 with the handling and engine options available to the Porsche line and will sell for about the same as the Q5. Have fun!

I love the Q5 and am waiting for the TDI version! However I believe the X3 28i (turbo 4 potter) gets better mileage than the VW/Audi turbo 4 gasser. No contest of course when pitted against the TDI 4 banger (Audi A3/Jetta/Passat/Golf) those can routinely hit over 40 and sometimes in the low 50's! A Passat TDI sportwagon might be the best option out there -- but alas they don't offer them here.

Originally Posted by ndabunka

They are actually AS expensive with the 4x4 version STARTING @ $57K & get significantly poorer fuel economy (only 20/23MPG)
http://www.chevrolet.com/tahoe-hybri...hybrid%20tahoe

I understand the OP is only looking at German, but, just to correct this 1 inaccuracy, the Tahoe MSRP is $57k loaded, so it's low $50's out the door. Also, the 20MPG around town due to the Hybrid technology is very accurate, x5d's are 19/26, that's not a significant difference. The Chevy also has more space, which it sounds like he needs, and will less expensive to maintain as it gets older.

No dog in the fight, just pointing it out, carry on (btw- I own a 2012 x5d but the Chevy sure is nice too )

Originally Posted by gresch

I understand the OP is only looking at German, but, just to correct this 1 inaccuracy, the Tahoe MSRP is $57k loaded, so it's low $50's out the door. Also, the 20MPG around town due to the Hybrid technology is very accurate, x5d's are 19/26, that's not a significant difference. The Chevy also has more space, which it sounds like he needs, and will less expensive to maintain as it gets older.

No dog in the fight, just pointing it out, carry on (btw- I own a 2012 x5d but the Chevy sure is nice too )

I will concede that you can probably get discounts on other Tahoes but dealerships are treating the Hybrids like they are gold so getting a $7K discount you indicate is not likely. (e.g. Edmunds shows that the $57,730 MSRP is only being reduced to $54,593 (TMV) so it won't be anywhere NEAR "low $50's out the door).

I do agree it may give him the space he is seeking but you can do that with other "nicer" (in my opinion) SUVs. I am not dinging you for offering it up but the interiors on those things look like "cheap plastic" to me. My brother is a HUGE Chevy guy and keeps trying to get me to buy one of those Avalanches. They float like a caddy to me rather than drive like a sports car.

Originally Posted by UncleJ

I love the Q5 and am waiting for the TDI version! However I believe the X3 28i (turbo 4 potter) gets better mileage than the VW/Audi turbo 4 gasser.

Have you considered the Hybrid Q5 that's coming out (It gets 24/30MPG)? Unfortunately, you would be wrong on the fuel consumption expectations for those other two (per Edmunds again):
Audi Q5 TT2.0 get 20/28
BMW X3 28i gets...19/25

Originally Posted by UncleJ

I love the Q5 and am waiting for the TDI version! However I believe the X3 28i (turbo 4 potter) gets better mileage than the VW/Audi turbo 4 gasser. No contest of course when pitted against the TDI 4 banger (Audi A3/Jetta/Passat/Golf) those can routinely hit over 40 and sometimes in the low 50's! A Passat TDI sportwagon might be the best option out there -- but alas they don't offer them here.

Patience, my friend. Q5 TDI is coming and it is going to be an awesome car. What I've learned from a Audi USA engineer with one of these is sub 6s 0-60 and 30+ mpg on the highway

I'm personally looking forward to an A7 TDI myself though

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Patience, my friend. Q5 TDI is coming and it is going to be an awesome car. What I've learned from a Audi USA engineer with one of these is sub 6s 0-60 and 30+ mpg on the highway

I'm personally looking forward to an A7 TDI myself though

Yes, have patience. I read X3 is coming out with diesel as well. Although, it is coming out at first half of 2014.

OP never mentioned if he was looking at new or used?

If new, they are much closer in the latest iteration.

However, if used, the last gen X3 is/was a complete pos. I can't imagine that anyone shopping for an X5 really considered a last gen X3 considering how inferior it is.

I'm considering a new one. X3 and X5 are within my budget. Actually I'm thinking of buying a used M3 for myself.

I thought I have narrowed down to X3, but there seem to be new options now: Q5 and new gen X3 and Q5.

Leasing a fully loaded X3 might not be a bad option. It won't be more than 5k more expensive than owning a X5.