Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)

E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-06-2014, 08:15 PM
nuttyprofessor nuttyprofessor is offline
Registered User
Location: nj
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2008 328xi
328xi won't start

I am new to BMW. Always been a Chevy guy but got a great deal on a 328xi a week ago, so I meandered over to the German side. I like the car, but it is already dead. When I put the key in, it sounds like the fuel pump is pumping, but the car won't start. I replaced the battery with a new one as my dad (who has a 2012) had an starting issue and it was the battery, so I replaced mine. Reading with a multimeter under the hood is at 12.4V. I tried disconnecting the IBS with no luck. Checked all fuses and they are fine. Did the old smack the crap out of the starter with no luck there either.

I am new to all the complexities of these cars but consider myself fairly mechanically inclined and want to fix this car to enjoy it, but not sure where to look as this is new territory for me.

Also, does anyone have a good location where I can find wiring diagrams and fuse panel layout drawings? Those will make it easier to troubleshoot. I find fuse panel pictures, but am not sure if the ones I am seeing are correct.

Thanks for any help.

Last edited by nuttyprofessor; 09-11-2014 at 02:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 09-12-2014, 09:43 AM
nuttyprofessor nuttyprofessor is offline
Registered User
Location: nj
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2008 328xi
Anyone???
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-12-2014, 09:49 AM
brewder brewder is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Allentown PA Area
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 650
Mein Auto: 2011 328i xDrive
Got any codes on the screen or from a OBDII reader?
__________________
//Brew...KCCO

('11 E92 328i xDrive - Deep Sea Blue | '07 E92 328xi - Space Gray)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-12-2014, 09:51 AM
fdriller9 fdriller9 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ/Philly
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,361
Mein Auto: '06 AW 330xi
Probably need a new starter
__________________

| LCI Msport Conversion | Custom Kevlar/Carbon Fiber Wind Splitter | Exotic Tuning Front Lip | H&R Coilovers | M3 Subframe Bushings | E93 M3 23.6mm Rear Sway Bar | Whiteline 27mm Front Sway Bar | Ground Control Camber Kit | L7 | Hand-Made LED Angel Eyes | Breyton GTS-R | Bridgestone Pole Position S-04 | CarPC with Centrafuse Front End | Alpine MRP-M500 | Custom LED Reverse Lights | OEM Blacklines | BMW Performance Trunk Spoiler |
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-12-2014, 11:36 AM
nuttyprofessor nuttyprofessor is offline
Registered User
Location: nj
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2008 328xi
Unfortunately my father has my OBDII scanner so I will need to get it back from him this weekend to check for any codes. I also noticed there is a parasitic draw on the car - noticed this when I hooked up a charger to the battery to ensure I had full power during troubleshooting. I am guessing it is more than 10A as my multimeter is limiter to 10A, but when I run a test light across the positive battery terminal to the disconnected positive leads, it lights up. I have had something similar occur with an older car where the starter shorted and had a draw and ran into the no start situation as well, but I can't find the fuse panel drawinng for this car. Does anyone have one? an 08 328xi.

Anyone near the south central NJ area want to come and offer some BMW help. Beer is included.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-12-2014, 01:06 PM
nuttyprofessor nuttyprofessor is offline
Registered User
Location: nj
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2008 328xi
Is there anny list of what activities are controlled by each control module? i.e. what is controlled by the DME?, what is controlled by EWS? and what is controlled by CAS? etc. Since my fuel pump is functioning, I don't think it is a DME related issue. But it may be the EWS or CAS, of which I would assume I could use a multimeter and see what and what is not functioning.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-12-2014, 01:36 PM
fdriller9 fdriller9 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ/Philly
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,361
Mein Auto: '06 AW 330xi
You can't remove the fuse for the starter.

It is a non-replaceable fuse and has a direct line to the battery.

I guess you can buy pass it temporarily

This car does not have an EWS sync between CAS and DME
__________________

| LCI Msport Conversion | Custom Kevlar/Carbon Fiber Wind Splitter | Exotic Tuning Front Lip | H&R Coilovers | M3 Subframe Bushings | E93 M3 23.6mm Rear Sway Bar | Whiteline 27mm Front Sway Bar | Ground Control Camber Kit | L7 | Hand-Made LED Angel Eyes | Breyton GTS-R | Bridgestone Pole Position S-04 | CarPC with Centrafuse Front End | Alpine MRP-M500 | Custom LED Reverse Lights | OEM Blacklines | BMW Performance Trunk Spoiler |
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-12-2014, 01:43 PM
fdriller9 fdriller9 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ/Philly
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,361
Mein Auto: '06 AW 330xi
Actually I think the starter cable is tied to the BST. So it's not fused at all. It just explodes in the event of an accident
__________________

| LCI Msport Conversion | Custom Kevlar/Carbon Fiber Wind Splitter | Exotic Tuning Front Lip | H&R Coilovers | M3 Subframe Bushings | E93 M3 23.6mm Rear Sway Bar | Whiteline 27mm Front Sway Bar | Ground Control Camber Kit | L7 | Hand-Made LED Angel Eyes | Breyton GTS-R | Bridgestone Pole Position S-04 | CarPC with Centrafuse Front End | Alpine MRP-M500 | Custom LED Reverse Lights | OEM Blacklines | BMW Performance Trunk Spoiler |
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-12-2014, 03:14 PM
nuttyprofessor nuttyprofessor is offline
Registered User
Location: nj
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2008 328xi
Thank you.

I was able to measure voltage at the starter at 12.4, which is what i measured at the battery as well. I might pull starter out and test just to be sure, but I want to try to narrow down my options first.

I just took out the glove box and measured voltage drop across the fuses to determine amperage draw. I found a few that were drawing quite a bit. on had a voltage drop of ~18.5 and when I put my head under the hood it sounded like it was powering a small air pump or motor intermittently. Once I pulled fuse #33 (based on drawing linked below) it stopped. Only problem is I don't have the fuse panel drawing for my car and there seems to be quite a few of them floating around on the net. I used the layout drawing from this post: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=622205
and found that fuses: 79, 77, 75, 74, 66, 62, 55, 35, 33, and 4 all have some voltage drop across them. Had to do this test with the passenger door open as my back spazzed out and I can't do it laying upsode down on the seat. (side note: getting older sucks). Here are the amp draws measured across the fuses based on voltage drop:
Fuse 79 = 102 ma
Fuse 77 = 81 ma
Fuse 75 = 56 ma
Fuse 74 = 130 ma
Fuse 66 = 46 ma
Fuse 62 = 46 ma
Fuse 55 = 45 ma
Fuse 35 = 139 ma
Fuse 33 = >5100 ma (based on the powerprobe conversion chart)
Fuse 4 = 485 ma

Last edited by nuttyprofessor; 09-12-2014 at 03:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-15-2014, 12:15 PM
nuttyprofessor nuttyprofessor is offline
Registered User
Location: nj
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2008 328xi
OK so I hooked up the Centech 60794 OBDII scanner and there are no trouble codes.
When I run the ABS scanner I get the following codes: 5EBA - steering angle sensor, D35E, U135E, 5E96 - DSC sensor, D35A, U135A, 5F48 - Interface, Instrument cluster, D35C, U135C, and 5EEFC - no vehicle-type data
I also looked at the calibration id and got two different IDs: Cal ID1: 000007568553 and Cal ID2: 000007585088
One other thing i noticed that was weird was the control module voltage VPWR (V) was low. It was only reading 0.054V. Tried googling to see what it should be and don't get a clear answer.
I tried to use the module testing feature of the scanner and it couldn't perform the tests. Think it has to do with the scanner.
I also noticed that there seems to be an electric motor intermittently running off what I am calling fuse 33 - almost sounds like it is coming from the water pump (will need to lift car to verify) and when that stops drawing current the "bell" on the interior of the car rings and seems like it is ready, then the motor kicks on again and the bell stops. and the pattern repeats.
Trying to find electrical schematics so I can trace that wire and see what module is running it. Hard to find data on these cars, almost like they are meant to be a well kept secret. Going to look into getting the Bentley manual so I have some reference drawings.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-15-2014, 12:27 PM
Watchme Watchme is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 395
Mein Auto: 2011 328i E90
I think you're over-thinking this, the starter is directly powered from the battery, and starters are pretty weak in these vehicles from what I can tell.
What happens when you push start? If nothing, replace the starter and diag further if required.
__________________
2011 328i X-Drive Sedan N51 AT; Black / Black.
Premium, Value, Hi-Fi stereo, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-15-2014, 12:37 PM
nuttyprofessor nuttyprofessor is offline
Registered User
Location: nj
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2008 328xi
I originally thought just starter or the IBS, but i disconnected IBS and saw a pretty substantial amperage draw. When I started to dig in a little more, i noticed that there is an electric motor that is powering up on a short cycle time causing said draw. I was going to pull the starter but wanted to do some diag first as I have a 1 yr old running around that doesn't give me all the free time in the world to just remove the intake, etc just to get to the starter.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-15-2014, 12:38 PM
nuttyprofessor nuttyprofessor is offline
Registered User
Location: nj
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2008 328xi
And if I replace the starter and the engine runs - i doubt an amperage draw would correct itself - however I could be wrong. These cars are a new beast to me. Although I like the challenge.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-15-2014, 01:10 PM
Watchme Watchme is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 395
Mein Auto: 2011 328i E90
I wouldn't rule out a normal cycling of the electric water pump as "normal". If it is just a few seconds, it might be checking the cooling system readiness to start the car. Is there significant draw after that? What about after sleep mode activation?
__________________
2011 328i X-Drive Sedan N51 AT; Black / Black.
Premium, Value, Hi-Fi stereo, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-15-2014, 01:33 PM
nuttyprofessor nuttyprofessor is offline
Registered User
Location: nj
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2008 328xi
it cycles what I believe to be the water pump continuously. It does not stop. Haven't let it go into sleep mode as it would drain the battery if I left it cycling. Draw is greater than 10 amps (limit of my meter). I calculated an amp draw of ~13A. Motor sounds like it stays on for ~30 seconds, shuts off for ~5 seconds and then repeats the cycle.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-15-2014, 01:50 PM
fdriller9 fdriller9 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ/Philly
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,361
Mein Auto: '06 AW 330xi
It's normal for the pump to keep running after turning off the engine. Especially after a hot day or spirited drive. This is an advantage to an electric pump. Though it should not stay on for more than 10 minutes or so

The N51/2 has a 200w pump. N54/4 is 400w. So 13 amp draw is not uncommon
__________________

| LCI Msport Conversion | Custom Kevlar/Carbon Fiber Wind Splitter | Exotic Tuning Front Lip | H&R Coilovers | M3 Subframe Bushings | E93 M3 23.6mm Rear Sway Bar | Whiteline 27mm Front Sway Bar | Ground Control Camber Kit | L7 | Hand-Made LED Angel Eyes | Breyton GTS-R | Bridgestone Pole Position S-04 | CarPC with Centrafuse Front End | Alpine MRP-M500 | Custom LED Reverse Lights | OEM Blacklines | BMW Performance Trunk Spoiler |
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-15-2014, 06:08 PM
nuttyprofessor nuttyprofessor is offline
Registered User
Location: nj
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2008 328xi
I agree. If the car was running and/or at temp I could understand the cycling. But not when it hasn't run in 2 weeks now and I just connected the battery back up. I don't think that is normal. Could one of the modules be stuck on one of the rungs of ladder logic?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-17-2014, 03:20 PM
nuttyprofessor nuttyprofessor is offline
Registered User
Location: nj
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2008 328xi
Ok. So I went thru the trouble of yanking out the starter. It was dead as a doornail. Installed new starter and the car cranks now but won't start. Any ideas??
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-18-2014, 08:18 AM
Watchme Watchme is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 395
Mein Auto: 2011 328i E90
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuttyprofessor View Post
Ok. So I went thru the trouble of yanking out the starter. It was dead as a doornail. Installed new starter and the car cranks now but won't start. Any ideas??
Any codes? Gas level?
__________________
2011 328i X-Drive Sedan N51 AT; Black / Black.
Premium, Value, Hi-Fi stereo, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-18-2014, 08:45 AM
nuttyprofessor nuttyprofessor is offline
Registered User
Location: nj
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2008 328xi
Will have to recheck codes, but I believe there still may be none stored as the battery has been disconnected for some time due to the parasitic drain. Gas level looked to be just above empty, but I plan to add fuel today and will check fuel pressure. Also going to check spark. Ran out of time yesterday as I had to pick up my son from daycare, so troubleshooting time came to an end. I am also trying to find what is on fuse 33 (a 40A ATC fuse) as it still shows a considerable amperage draw when the car isn't running. Trying to see what others have run into as my diagnostic time is usually hurried along by a 1 yr old running around.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-18-2014, 09:35 AM
bwillia's Avatar
bwillia bwillia is offline
Just another Gear Head!
Location: Colorado
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 373
Mein Auto: 2008 335xi coupe
You actually don't state clearly whether you are having a "no crank" condition or a "no start" condition. Very, very different scenarios!!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-18-2014, 09:43 AM
nuttyprofessor nuttyprofessor is offline
Registered User
Location: nj
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2008 328xi
I started with a no crank condition. Which was corrected by replacing the starter and cleaning the ground cable in the engine bay. Now I have a crank but no start condition.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-18-2014, 08:21 PM
nuttyprofessor nuttyprofessor is offline
Registered User
Location: nj
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2008 328xi
Ok. Added gas to the tank just to make sure it had some - it has plenty. Tried to start. Still sounds like the fuel pump is priming - need to confirm tomorrow with fuel pressure gauge. Had my scanner hooked up. No codes present. And while trying to start was viewing the live data (which is limited) but it did show rpms when I cranked the engine over. Tomorrow will need to check fuel pressure and spark. Any thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-19-2014, 07:45 PM
nuttyprofessor nuttyprofessor is offline
Registered User
Location: nj
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 2008 328xi
Was able to get a few moments after the little guy went to sleep. Measured fuel pressure at around 70psi which seems good. Don't have spark though. Which would lead me to believe the crank position sensor is bad, but then why would it show rpms on my scanner when I am trying to crank it. I thought if the crank position sensor was bad it wouldnt give any rpm values. Also, I did confirm that my water pump is turning on and off in a cyclical pattern once I reconnect the battery. Car is not running and key is put of ignition. Going to have to see what powers it.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-19-2014, 08:10 PM
obd2works.com obd2works.com is offline
'Fest Sponsor
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 44
Mein Auto:
buy car diagnostic tool,pls PM me,our products price are cheap
__________________

car diagnostic tool shop: www.obd2works.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms