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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 11-09-2012, 05:15 PM
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Tires and MPG?

The changing of the seasons and the subsequent tire/wheel swap has paid an unexpected dividend.

My MPG (according to the OBC) has gone from 23.2 to 27.8 since the changing of the tires.

There are some other qualifying factors.

1. Roof rack is generally on with the summer tires far more than the winter package.
Based on my own observations, the rack seems to subtract 1.5-2 MPG.

2. Temperatures are lower. A/C is only used for occasional defrosting and now and again
to exercise the system.

Surprisingly, average speed remains relatively constant, around 45mph.

Summer Package

Michelin Pilot Super Sport (go flat) 225/40 18" front 255/35 18" rear on the ever
popular 193M BMW wheel.

Winter package

225/40 18" Dunlop Wintersport 3D (RFT) all 4 corners on Sparco Pista wheels.

Has anyone else noticed a change in mileage between summer and winter setups?

jummo
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  #2  
Old 11-09-2012, 05:22 PM
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Jummo,

Maybe the difference between summer & winter gas? That change in mpg is surprising to me.

Mine never varies more than 1-2 mpg unless on an extended road trip. g/l
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2012, 07:20 PM
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More likely it has to do with a possible shift between winter and summer petrol formulations, and/or difference in fuel quality from tank-to-tank. Rolling resistance is a factor in tires but the difference is not that big, only a few tenths of a l/100km.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jummo View Post
The changing of the seasons and the subsequent tire/wheel swap has paid an unexpected dividend.

My MPG (according to the OBC) has gone from 23.2 to 27.8 since the changing of the tires.

There are some other qualifying factors.

1. Roof rack is generally on with the summer tires far more than the winter package.
Based on my own observations, the rack seems to subtract 1.5-2 MPG.

2. Temperatures are lower. A/C is only used for occasional defrosting and now and again
to exercise the system.

Surprisingly, average speed remains relatively constant, around 45mph.

Summer Package

Michelin Pilot Super Sport (go flat) 225/40 18" front 255/35 18" rear on the ever
popular 193M BMW wheel.

Winter package

225/40 18" Dunlop Wintersport 3D (RFT) all 4 corners on Sparco Pista wheels.

Has anyone else noticed a change in mileage between summer and winter setups?

jummo
Sorry, jummo...your switch to winter tires has resulted in exactly the opposite expectation for winter tires that are less fuel efficient than non-winter tires. Winter tires are horrible for rolling resistance...NO tire manufacturer in their right mind makes any claims for winter tire fuel efficiency. There are OTHER reasons for your DRAMATIC improvement in fuel efficiency...it's certainly NOT your fuel INEFFICIENT winter tires!
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  #5  
Old 11-10-2012, 03:04 AM
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Last edited by Speedwagon; 11-16-2012 at 04:18 AM.
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  #6  
Old 11-10-2012, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pointandgo View Post
Sorry, jummo...your switch to winter tires has resulted in exactly the opposite expectation for winter tires that are less fuel efficient than non-winter tires. Winter tires are horrible for rolling resistance...NO tire manufacturer in their right mind makes any claims for winter tire fuel efficiency. There are OTHER reasons for your DRAMATIC improvement in fuel efficiency...it's certainly NOT your fuel INEFFICIENT winter tires!
I'm not claiming that winter tires are more efficient, nor did I say the manufacturer said they were.

I merely noted that my fuel consumption has improved by almost 20%. This coincided with the switch from summer to winter mode for my car.

I find it curious, not that I am complaining, mind you.

It would seem to me that there are likely other factors. Colder temps? Seasonal gas blends?

I don't know, that's why I asked the question. I also noticed a similar decrease last May when making the switch to summer mode.

It never ceases to amaze me at the incredible knowledge of proper winter driving equipment
possessed by people who live in places where it doesn't actually snow.

It seems like such a waste, when so many people around here seem utterly clueless when the roads are bad.

Please note that I refrained from excessive use of capitol letters in anticipation of a potential
shortage.

With all resources, conservation is a good thing.

I am jummo, and I approved this message.

jummo
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:59 PM
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Hey Jummo, how was that trip to France? See any flamingos?
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  #8  
Old 11-11-2012, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarySL View Post
Hey Jummo, how was that trip to France? See any flamingos?
France was incredible, but we didn't see any flamingos! We toured several ski factories and each day featured a major vin et fromage session. And then a 3 hour dinner.

When the business part was done, we headed to Chateau Neuf Du Pape, down the Rhone Valley,
across the coast to Italy, where we spent a few days in the Cinque Terra.
Wow!

Back to the topic, we've had 17" of snow here at Casa jummo the last 2 days. The snow tires are earning their keep, along with the snowblower, roof rake etc.

Keep it coming and Go Broncos!

jummo
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  #9  
Old 11-11-2012, 09:53 AM
mossman35 mossman35 is offline
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I have posted this before, but I have consistently seen better fuel economy with winter tires versus summer tires. This was true on my Subaru Legacy GT, my Infiniti G35X and now with my current 335. All cars had larger diameter summer tires (not that it should matter). I am 95% sure my area (Vermont) uses the same fuel summer or winter.

Some of this is probably due to the fact that I drive slower on winter tires but still. On this car the summer tires are staggered and winters are not. I just changed to winter tires 2 weeks ago. I made my same trip to NY and I saw 29 to 30mpg. On summer tires I get 27 to 28 mpg. If history repeats I will consistently see close to 30mpg until summer tires go on. I think it's also due to wheel weight and the previously mentioned AC usage. Just my two cents though.
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossman35 View Post
I have posted this before, but I have consistently seen better fuel economy with winter tires versus summer tires. This was true on my Subaru Legacy GT, my Infiniti G35X and now with my current 335. All cars had larger diameter summer tires (not that it should matter). I am 95% sure my area (Vermont) uses the same fuel summer or winter.

Some of this is probably due to the fact that I drive slower on winter tires but still. On this car the summer tires are staggered and winters are not. I just changed to winter tires 2 weeks ago. I made my same trip to NY and I saw 29 to 30mpg. On summer tires I get 27 to 28 mpg. If history repeats I will consistently see close to 30mpg until summer tires go on. I think it's also due to wheel weight and the previously mentioned AC usage. Just my two cents though.
It's elementary my dear Watson. "Softer" compounds (high performance tires, snow tires) generate more heat...otherwise called "hysteresis loss." This results in poor fuel economy. Rubber chemistry and the laws of thermodynamics all rolled into one!

Snow tire rubber compounds are heavily "extended" with oils to keep them flexible in low temperatures. Terrible for "normal" temperatures! That's why they normally wear much quicker than "non-winter" tires. The heavy "siping" or "slits" in the tread detract from their fuel efficiency also. You may notice that "super fuel efficient green" tires now being offered on the market for hybrid cars have nearly "sipe-less" tread designs.

The compounding of new "green" tires contains "silica" or other ingredients to reduce "hysteresis," NOT the softening oils found in snow tires.
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  #11  
Old 11-12-2012, 05:16 AM
mossman35 mossman35 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pointandgo View Post
It's elementary my dear Watson. "Softer" compounds (high performance tires, snow tires) generate more heat...otherwise called "hysteresis loss." This results in poor fuel economy. Rubber chemistry and the laws of thermodynamics all rolled into one!

Snow tire rubber compounds are heavily "extended" with oils to keep them flexible in low temperatures. Terrible for "normal" temperatures! That's why they normally wear much quicker than "non-winter" tires. The heavy "siping" or "slits" in the tread detract from their fuel efficiency also. You may notice that "super fuel efficient green" tires now being offered on the market for hybrid cars have nearly "sipe-less" tread designs.

The compounding of new "green" tires contains "silica" or other ingredients to reduce "hysteresis," NOT the softening oils found in snow tires.
I understand what you are saying but other things are playing into this. As a matter of fact I am currently half way through my 5 hour drive back to vt. Temp is in high 40's low 50's. I am getting 28.6 mpg on extreme winter contact. I never see that high on summer ps2's. I have been doing roughly same speed. The winters are narrower. Wheel weight is less. Something other than tire compound has a bigger influence. Like I said my last 3 cars showed same thing. All this assumes car calculation is equal.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:21 AM
mossman35 mossman35 is offline
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Pictures worth 1000 words. Haha.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:22 AM
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Another fresh pic. Time to finish my drive. I never tire of driving this car. Be back later. :-)
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:36 AM
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After several more hours my trip is complete.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:44 PM
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I know comments ended here a while back, but I am averaging ~19 MPG with my winter Blizzaks. This seems oddly horrendous. I have a '10 335xi.

Is this normal?
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:53 PM
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I know comments ended here a while back, but I am averaging ~19 MPG with my winter Blizzaks. This seems oddly horrendous. I have a '10 335xi.

Is this normal?
Yes. I think some of the reasons for this are covered (above).
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:27 AM
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I'm not surprised. The roof rack affect aerodynamics therefore the increased wind resistence causes more fuel to burn. Also, the winter set has 4 equal rims, the summer has larger rear rims, therefore the summer wheels are heavier. Another reason for the inferior mileage. It appears there is not much you can do about it since you drive the same average speed.
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:32 PM
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So, the snow tires have been on for a week or so... and it happened again.

All summer, with summer tires and wheels and bike rack on roof. 23.2mpg.

Install winter tires and wheels, bike rack still on roof.

Same commute. 25.8mpg

Over 2.5 more miles per gallon with the snows.

It is an interesting visual contrast between the two sets of tires.

Go Broncos!

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Old 10-09-2013, 06:42 PM
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OMG!!

Jummo,

You are still here! Long time no see... you still have space gray, yes?

Maybe your snow tires have less rolling resistance? But that is truly a significant difference. I know my All season RFT's give less efficient gas mileage if they are under inflated even by 2 lbs. Is it because the summer tires are fatter?

It is a bit interesting.

Good to see you here.
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:58 PM
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Tire hight increase could mess with your computers calculation. Did you measure mpg by actually checking how much fuel you put in the car?
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:46 PM
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Are your winter and summer tires the same (size) diameter?

This calculator shows the difference in actual speed of different size tires.

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTireMath.dos

Also tread depth is a factor. New tires with a tread depth of 10/32" and worn tires with a tread depth of 2/32" That's a 1/2" inch difference in diameter of the tire.

Last edited by Norm37; 10-09-2013 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:25 AM
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Tire hight increase could mess with your computers calculation. Did you measure mpg by actually checking how much fuel you put in the car?
lol i bet this is it.
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  #23  
Old 10-10-2013, 08:22 AM
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Yes, Kat! I am still here AND my car is still Space Gray. Thanks for asking!

And I still get better mileage with the winter tires than the summers.

While I did not weigh them, my guess is the winter setup is heavier. The front tires are the same size 225/40/18.

The rear summers are 255/35/18 and the wheels are 1/2" wider.

But the snow tires are RFT's and the Pilot Super Sports are go flats, RFT's are heavier.

And I'm guessing that the 193M wheel is lighter than the Sparco Pista's.

They are certainly more expensive, but then they say BMW and have ///M's on the valve stem caps. So they must be better, right?

While I find it interesting that my MPG is better with snow tires than summers, I find it more interesting that people are so sure it's something else.

If I'd said "My snow tires are louder (they are) than the summer tires" I don't think it would cause much consternation.

Anyway, snowflake sightings on the OBC are a regular occurrence these mornings and we're expecting up to a foot today.

Bring it on!

And how 'bout them Broncos!

jummo
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