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X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

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  #1  
Old 11-10-2012, 10:04 PM
ghostdog1108 ghostdog1108 is offline
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Consumer Reports

The latest Consumer Reports shows the 2013 X3 35i to have a much higher repairs rating
than almost every other mid luxury SUV.
Very surprised at this. Thoughts from others?
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  #2  
Old 11-11-2012, 05:12 AM
Sadi Sadi is offline
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Also see this thread:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=657073
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  #3  
Old 11-11-2012, 07:53 AM
samillerfl samillerfl is offline
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Just a thought on the Consumer Reports article...don't fret it! I have been driving for over 35 years and have never purchased a car based on "resale value". If I had been worried about resale then I wouldn't have bought a "new" car (remember the biggest depreciation is driving it off the lot!). Bottom line is I researched my vehicles, test drove, found one I liked, worked a deal and then enjoyed driving my new car. If you are on this site then you enjoy owning a BMW (like millions of other owners). So have fun with your car and when it comes time to trade or sell it remember that you bought a BMW because it is the "Ultimate Driving Machine" not the max resale machine! Cars are not an investment they are a tool or a toy, depending on the owner.
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  #4  
Old 11-11-2012, 07:58 AM
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Are we talking repair costs, or resale value?
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  #5  
Old 11-11-2012, 08:27 AM
samillerfl samillerfl is offline
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Originally Posted by TXPearl View Post
Are we talking repair costs, or resale value?
I think both are tied together, but read the thread link that Sadi posted above. It addresses resale values.
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  #6  
Old 11-11-2012, 08:42 AM
BogX3 BogX3 is offline
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I'm surprised as well, perhaps CR surveys are picking up throttle lag as one of the issues. I recall reading that it was fixed with MY13. Or was that issue only with the 28i?

At this point I'm wondering if I should get a 28i instead
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  #7  
Old 11-11-2012, 09:13 AM
ghostdog1108 ghostdog1108 is offline
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Just wanted to hear some perspective on this in case there was a 'major' issue. Not hearing any, I will be purchasing, next spring, my first BMW, an X3 35i !!
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  #8  
Old 11-11-2012, 09:25 AM
samillerfl samillerfl is offline
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Originally Posted by BogX3 View Post
I'm surprised as well, perhaps CR surveys are picking up throttle lag as one of the issues. I recall reading that it was fixed with MY13. Or was that issue only with the 28i?

At this point I'm wondering if I should get a 28i instead
I purchased my 2013 X3 28i in September and have had no issues (zero throttle lag). I also have a 2011 528i and it does have the lag issues.
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  #9  
Old 11-11-2012, 02:02 PM
Runon MD1 Runon MD1 is offline
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Consumer Reports

I was the original poster on the other site referenced by a responder.

The CR article actually dealt with reliability being 80% below average, and even if their statistics are off a bit, it's still a pretty poor showing, at least in my opinion. In fact, it was the lowest in its class, which left me stunned.

But I do like driving my 2012 X35i, though it has a habit of drifting to the right, which bugs me, and the service folks haven't been able to fix it.

That's a minor issue, and I do agree with the person who responded by saying that the car's role is to be driven and enjoyed as such. Its reliability rating must have some adverse impact on residual or resale value, though, but it's true that on a day to day basis, one drives for enjoyment, safety and comfort, though not in that order and not for resale value.

Richard

Last edited by Runon MD1; 11-11-2012 at 02:03 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #10  
Old 11-11-2012, 07:53 PM
M3Woody M3Woody is offline
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Unhappy Declining BMW Quality

I have not read the CR issue though I have seen the comments Richard and others have posted here. My title is based solely on my experience with BMW's since my first in 1983, a 320i.

The last two, a 2004 325Ci and this 2012 X3 28i have been had issues I never experienced with any of the other BMW's I have owned. That list includes 3's 5's 7's and M cars. Things like the interior trim issues with the E46 coupes that BMW also denied was an issue on more than "a couple cars" but it was well known in the forums I participate in as well as BMW CCA members I know.

Regardless, the problems of quality that seem to be surfacing are issues that I have never even experienced with vehicles costing much less than my BMW's. I don't mind paying a premium price for a "Premium" vehicle. I do not appreciate paying that premium price and receiving a much less than premium vehicle.

Woody
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  #11  
Old 11-12-2012, 04:48 PM
Runon MD1 Runon MD1 is offline
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I find it particularly rankling to have BMW fail to include a Y-connector to connect an iPod on its 2012 X35i, though it does on the X28i. I don't know about the 2013s, though.

One would think that, if anything, it would be the reverse, even though if one can afford the car, the connector shouldn't be a major issue.

But somehow it's the little things like that that can be aggravating, at least to me.

When I called and asked a consumer rep at BMW NA if a retailer would sell a TV or expensive stereo or Internet system without a remote or a power source or whatever, and whether BMW felt that it would be worth it to lose a customer to save a few dollars, the genius replied, "Well, we're talking about a vehicle, not a TV, and we feel our vehicles are the best, but you are free to choose another brand." She suggested that I take it up with the dealer where I purchased the car.

So when I did, calling Encinitas BMW where I purchased that new vehicle and have two cars serviced, they also said "Nope. Can't help you."

So I will vote with my feet, as it were, and they have lost me as a client. But the pity is that I clearly mean absolutely nothing to them, nobody will know, and nobody will care.

And there you have it.

Richard

Last edited by Runon MD1; 11-12-2012 at 04:51 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #12  
Old 11-12-2012, 09:46 PM
BogX3 BogX3 is offline
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Thank you, all of your comments are helpful. It's sad to hear about these quality issues. CR's finding that reliability is 70% below average is specifically based on the 35i model years 2011 ad 2012. The 28i looks closer to average, however that engine has been discontinued. The big question at this point is how will the N20 engine in the 2013 model year in the 28i will stand up over time. I'm thinking that if the BMW reliability is in doubt i may as well wait for the upcoming Porsche Macan.
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:10 AM
kantuckid kantuckid is offline
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So, your telling us that you will quit a certain car brand & bad mouth a dealer over a cheapo item that the Chinese make for $10? Seems to be a bit "thin-skinned" to me? You are not a car person as such but far to engrossed in the ipod thing...Maybe an i pod website would allow you a bit more latitude?
Seriously that's what you call an issue about a car???
Let's talk cars here!
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2012, 08:33 AM
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What I find interesting about CR is they recommend the X5 with the very same turbo 6 that they slam in the X3.
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2012, 08:39 AM
kantuckid kantuckid is offline
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For a laugh read the MSN linked car/SUV tests today from Motor Trend that are comparing GLK's to Subaru's. The Subaru being ~ 1/2 the cost of a GLK and IMO probably the better car if not the better value & definitely a better AWD system than 4matic. It's simply unrealistic what they say about the various cars, in many cases.
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  #16  
Old 11-13-2012, 01:09 PM
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CR- written by the elderly, for the elderly. Their business model and car advice seems firmly stuck in the 90's
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  #17  
Old 11-14-2012, 09:32 AM
leighton leighton is offline
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Approaching 78, I am one of the elderly and resent the deprecation. After almost 20 years in BMWs, the 35i is my compromise solution to dealing with an M5 clutch pedal in NYC traffic and need for clearance height to deal with NYC road obstacles while still having fun driving.

Further, I have been reading CR for more than 40 years because I am interested in correlation of their test results with R&T, C&D, and MT, not their scores or conclusions. Their reliability metrics come solely from their annual questionnaire to subscribers. If many (10?, 50?) respondents report lurching or hesitation as an engine or transmission problem, or low oil or coolant levels or erroneous chassis stabilization messages that resulted in trips to dealers that could have a substantial adverse effect on the CR reliability result even though these things are meaningless in evaluating model reliabillity. Yes, there are some bad things that have happened to a few F25s, but speaking for the three 35is that I am responsible for, in the year since their delivery and >20K total miles driven, there has been one chassis stabilization message. I have been and am very favorably impressed with 35i reliability in contrast to their predecessor and other models and expect that level to continue.

Last edited by leighton; 11-14-2012 at 09:50 AM.
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  #18  
Old 11-14-2012, 10:44 AM
kantuckid kantuckid is offline
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@ 69(Dec) my posts are from the elderly & for whoever reads them! Clearance height for NYC? That's sort of interesting in & of itself! On my private road my current sedan, CTS4 has a "cowcatcher" front cover lower rubber lip that pushes snow. What would it "push" in NYC?
FWIW, the last time I read a CR they were telling (as in trying to) me that my fave ice creams were not any good.
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  #19  
Old 11-14-2012, 12:08 PM
colson79 colson79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runon MD1 View Post

I find it particularly rankling to have BMW fail to include a Y-connector to connect an iPod on its 2012 X35i, though it does on the X28i. I don't know about the 2013s, though.

One would think that, if anything, it would be the reverse, even though if one can afford the car, the connector shouldn't be a major issue.

But somehow it's the little things like that that can be aggravating, at least to me.

When I called and asked a consumer rep at BMW NA if a retailer would sell a TV or expensive stereo or Internet system without a remote or a power source or whatever, and whether BMW felt that it would be worth it to lose a customer to save a few dollars, the genius replied, "Well, we're talking about a vehicle, not a TV, and we feel our vehicles are the best, but you are free to choose another brand." She suggested that I take it up with the dealer where I purchased the car.

So when I did, calling Encinitas BMW where I purchased that new vehicle and have two cars serviced, they also said "Nope. Can't help you."

So I will vote with my feet, as it were, and they have lost me as a client. But the pity is that I clearly mean absolutely nothing to them, nobody will know, and nobody will care.

And there you have it.

Richard
You don't need a y-connector anyway. I just use the cable that came with my i-Pod and plug it into the usb port, works great and I don't need a special cable from BMW. Plus I think you expectation is a little unrealistic, is BMW suppose to provide you a cable for every MP3 brand you might own.
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  #20  
Old 11-17-2012, 06:55 PM
csmcphail csmcphail is offline
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Low Speed Throttle Response Continues to Irritate

Forum members, I thought I would share with you a portion of what I just communicated to BMW Customer Relations:
******************************

Dear BMW Customer Relations:

My wife and I love many aspects of our 2011 X3 35i. We had an absolute blast at the Performance Center Delivery in the Fall of 2011!

There is a significant, persistent issue that has not been resolved to our satisfaction, despite 2 service appointments. Throttle behavior at low speed is unpredictable and erratic to a degree that it keeps me on edge. My wife now looks for reasons to not drive the car. It is very difficult for either of us to perform gentle throttle manipulations at low speed without the car either momentarily hesitating or shooting off like a rocket. Likewise, when slowing down and then resuming posted speeds in situations like a traffic light transitioning from red to green, there is a similar difficulty predicting what will result from gentle throttle inputs. In other scenarios, the engine is a marvelous and velvety smooth beast.

Back in April 2012, we had the following update performed at Gault BMW in Endicott NY:

“A new software calibration was just released for this engine:
SIB 24 02 12
Subject:
N52T/N55 with 8HP45: Delay in Engine Response
Model
F25 with either N52T or N55 engines and 8HP45 transmission up to 1/16/2012
Situation
When slowing down to lower suburban road speeds and then reaccelerating, a delay in engine response may be experienced
Cause
Unfavorable EGS and DME software calibration
Correction
Program the vehicle using ISTA/P 2.46.0 or higher”


After the above update, one behavior I didn’t mention above was totally resolved: an RPM surge on cold start…esp with the A/C on. I think that problem was associated with a different service bulletin. So that’s the good part. We continued, however, to experience the erratic throttle behaviors I described above. I noticed an additional behavior as well. On a cold start during the summer months (our first summer with the car), if you don’t wait for the RPMs to stabilize and if you attempt to drive away, the engine can stall. It has done this on two occasions, requiring a restart. I work around the irritation by waiting about 15 seconds for the RPMs to settle down before driving off. Again, this problem may have existed since day one and I may have just noticed it during our first summer.

In October, we took the car back to Gault BMW. The friendly service staff and technicians could not find any codes and confirmed the SW update was correctly performed back in April. Again, they were very professional and supportive, but were unable to solve the problem. We’ve been Acura customers since the mid-1990’s and decided to give BMW a try last year. There is so much to love about our X3, but this problem is a definite sore spot. We would greatly appreciate if BMW would get to the root cause of this problem.

************************************
I will update this thread when I have anything significant to share. Thanks
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  #21  
Old 11-23-2012, 09:42 AM
Runon MD1 Runon MD1 is offline
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To KantucKid:

Of course not.

It was the cable issue on top of the sales person's partner at the dealership (he had nothing whatsoever to do with the sale) calling me after I answered the customer survey honestly, giving the highest marks where due and somewhat lower (though far from the lowest) marks when indicated.

He told me, actually yelling, that he distinctly told me to mark everything on the survey "truly exceptional" (what is that, anyway?), as if I was his trained monkey, that I had cost him and his children thousands of dollars, and that if I ever needed anything, he would, in essence, see to it that I didn't get it.

WTF???

So that's it for the dealer. Oh...he still works there, naturally. Others have posted similar experiences with him, by the way.

And I don't expect a cable for every device I own, which is a really silly comment. Apart from the fact that the iPod isn't really an obscure item, for which a cable would be a reasonable expectation, KK misses his own point...why doesn't BMW provide a cable costing it $10 in its $50,000 cars, including the X35i as it does in the X28i? It seems to me that if it did in either, it should be in its more upscale and pricier model, unless I'm missing something.

In response to another poster, who was polite enough to respond without coming across as a jerk by being insulting, my standard iPod cable did not work in my new car, which the service rep told me requires a Y cable. I would add that there are many times when the Y cable, which I purchased, doesn't recognize the iPod (yes, both plugs are in securely).

As to the car brand, I suppose that most manufacturers act the same, so KK probably has a point in that regard.

I don't believe that I am "thin-skinned." I try to look at the overall pros and cons, and act accordingly, as I suspect most of us do.

Thanks for the cordial responses to my post. I am always willing to listen, learn, and admit when I am wrong, but, being human, I typically consider and often respond to and/or act upon suggestions and corrections when offered in a civil manner, without statements as to me that are wildly inaccurate, mean-spirited or accusatory, and which are baseless at best.

Richard

Last edited by Runon MD1; 11-24-2012 at 10:45 AM. Reason: spelling and grammar
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  #22  
Old 11-23-2012, 05:06 PM
Runon MD1 Runon MD1 is offline
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One other thing, Kantuckid...I was not aware that you knew me well enough to decide whether I am or am not a "car person," or whatever. The fact of the matter is that I consider myself to be one, though, given our long relationship based upon one posting, you somehow feel qualified to assess that part of me. Rest assured that I will give your opinion the weight it deserves, though you of course have the right to your analysis of my persona, hobbies, etc., inasmuch as you are no doubt highly trained in such.

It occurs to me that right is right, regardless of what is involved, its cost and/or where it may have been manufactured. You see, KK, there is excellence in terms of customer service (think Nordstrom, Zappos, etc.), and then there is everything else, as in an attitude of, "It's good enough," or, "We have your money, so you can just go pound sand."

To me, however, "good enough" never, ever is...but that's just my opinion, and as you have declared me to be a non-car person, my view on a given matter can be summarily disregarded.

But just think about what my feelings would now be if BMW had said, in effect, "We can see that you've purchased 4 new BMWs within the past 4 years and have them serviced at our dealers (I told them so when I called BMW NA and politely and calmly addressed the problem), so that as an exception, we are sending you a voucher for the iPod connector (or a credit toward parts or service in that amount). We hope that you will continue to enjoy your BMWs, and we look forward to a long-term mutually beneficial relationship."

So...the equation is, as you put it, a part that would have cost BMW $10 as opposed to an action leading to a disgruntled client, who has held up his part of the bargain by being brand loyal.

Which makes more sense from a business standpoint? I have now written a post that will convey my disappointment to thousands, and if just one single reader decides to go with Mercedes or Audi or Lexus (don't be inane by talking about Lexus vs. BMW...you get my point), that will cost BMW thousands in profit, as opposed to a cost of $10.

Do the proverbial "math."

So...given the above, do you really think that my issue is my being "too, invested (and, by the way, it's "too" not "to" and it's "you're" not "your") in an iPod connector"?

However, in the spirit of bonhomie (you can look it up), I hope your holiday was a good one.

Richard

Last edited by Runon MD1; 11-24-2012 at 10:46 AM. Reason: grammar
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  #23  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:28 AM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostdog1108 View Post
The latest Consumer Reports shows the 2013 X3 35i to have a much higher repairs rating
than almost every other mid luxury SUV.
Very surprised at this. Thoughts from others?
Consumer ratings is a magazine which reports on how vehicles function plain and simple. Their editorials primarily focus on how the car is in terms of value, that was, is, and will always be their primary function. They focus on dishing out to each person, whether or not the car is good value for money.

When you look at a BMW, your not looking at the value vs the cost, your looking to get into a vehicle that is the pinnacle and pioneer in driving performance. Hence the cost and value numbers, which Consumer reports bases its bread and butter on, is OBVIOUSLY GONNA BE less than say any other luxury suv. Only a few people purchase a BMW on reliability caz its a given that if you want the latest technology, expect to drop a couple pounds from your wallet. If you want reliability go for a Lexus or a Acura. Hence you see that other car makers tend to score higher than BMW. (Mercedes and Audi really have no excuse)

Consumer reports is a magazine is for the person interested in learning whether or not a vehicle meets or exceeds a set value for money ratio. Nothing more! no need to get all up in arms about how the F25 scores at the bottom of the pack, cause you know everytime you drive your X, you cannot imagine (exclusions apply lol) driving anything else.
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  #24  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:34 AM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kantuckid View Post
So, your telling us that you will quit a certain car brand & bad mouth a dealer over a cheapo item that the Chinese make for $10? Seems to be a bit "thin-skinned" to me? You are not a car person as such but far to engrossed in the ipod thing...Maybe an i pod website would allow you a bit more latitude?
Seriously that's what you call an issue about a car???
Let's talk cars here!
I wonder why every single car manufacturer pursuing adding an "i pod" interface into their vehicles. We should write a letter to BMW, requesting them to stop development on their next Generation I-Drive and Connected Drive platforms for the "i pod" as it is not a "car" thing.

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  #25  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:37 AM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runon MD1 View Post
To KantucKid:

Of course not.

It was the cable issue on top of the sales person's partner at the dealership (he had nothing whatsoever to do with the sale) calling me after I answered the customer survey honestly, giving the highest marks where due and somewhat lower (though far from the lowest) marks when indicated.

WTF???

So that's it for the dealer. Oh...he still works there, naturally. Others have posted similar experiences with him, by the way.

And I don't expect a cable for every device I own, which is a really silly comment. Apart from the fact that the iPod isn't really an obscure item, for which a cable would be a reasonable expectation, KK misses his own point...why doesn't BMW provide a cable costing it $10 in its $50,000 cars, including the X35i as it does in the X28i? It seems to me that if it did in either, it should be in its more upscale and pricier model, unless I'm missing something.

In response to another poster, who was polite enough to respond without coming across as a jerk by being insulting, my standard iPod cable did not work in my new car, which the service rep told me requires a Y cable. I would add that there are many times when the Y cable, which I purchased, doesn't recognize the iPod (yes, both plugs are in securely).

As to the car brand, I suppose that most manufacturers act the same, so KK probably has a point in that regard.

I don't believe that I am "thin-skinned." I try to look at the overall pros and cons, and act accordingly, as I suspect most of us do.

Thanks for the cordial responses to my post. I am always willing to listen, learn, and admit when I am wrong, but, being human, I typically consider and often respond to and/or act upon suggestions and corrections when offered in a civil manner, without statements as to me that are wildly inaccurate, mean-spirited or accusatory, and which are baseless at best.

Richard

He told me, actually yelling, that he distinctly told me to mark everything on the survey "truly exceptional" (what is that, anyway?), as if I was his trained monkey, that I had cost him and his children thousands of dollars, and that if I ever needed anything, he would, in essence, see to it that I didn't get it.




If you have more dealers around you, i hope you switched. No one has the right to tell me how my customer survey should be graded.
s
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