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X5 E53 (1999 - 2006)
The X5 SAV Forum

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  #1  
Old 07-10-2004, 03:39 PM
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SARAFIL SARAFIL is offline
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I might become the board's new X3 expert soon...



Looks like starting Monday, I'll be getting to know the X3 quite well.
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  #2  
Old 07-10-2004, 03:47 PM
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  #3  
Old 07-10-2004, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atyclb



Ok, I'll let the cat out of the bag.

My dad is getting a new X3 next week... the deal was too good to pass up.

Specs:
Bluewater/Black Leather
Auto
Sport
Cold Weather
Moonroof
Privacy Glass

Let's just say he got an amazing deal.
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  #4  
Old 07-10-2004, 03:53 PM
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congrats to Dr Bimmer

( i think)
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  #5  
Old 07-10-2004, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL


Ok, I'll let the cat out of the bag.

My dad is getting a new X3 next week... the deal was too good to pass up.

Specs:
Bluewater/Black Leather
Auto
Sport
Cold Weather
Moonroof
Privacy Glass

Let's just say he got an amazing deal.
Must know the sales person quite well
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  #6  
Old 07-10-2004, 04:28 PM
Mathew Mathew is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL


Looks like starting Monday, I'll be getting to know the X3 quite well.
I'm sorry.

Did you guys have an X5 at one point, or is that my imagination?
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  #7  
Old 07-10-2004, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
I'm sorry.
My biggest issue with the X3 is the price. I think that at the MSRP of $44,145 this car is overpriced for what it gives you. However, at the "negociated" selling price, it's a bargain.

Quote:
Did you guys have an X5 at one point, or is that my imagination?
We're on our 3rd E46, but we've never had an X5.
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  #8  
Old 07-10-2004, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Phil
Must know the sales person quite well



To his benefit, this is his 4th BMW from the dealership in ~5 years, so I'm sure he could have gotten a deal almost as sweet on his own.
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  #9  
Old 07-10-2004, 05:10 PM
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As an X5 owner, I just don't get the X3. If it was priced $30K-$40K (loaded), then I would get it... but my nicely equipped X5 was only about $47K... and I think the X5 is much more value.

Oh, we're looking forward to another X3 expert around here. Welcome to these parts of the Fest!
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  #10  
Old 07-10-2004, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emission
As an X5 owner, I just don't get the X3. If it was priced $30K-$40K (loaded), then I would get it... but my nicely equipped X5 was only about $47K... and I think the X5 is much more value.

Oh, we're looking forward to another X3 expert around here. Welcome to these parts of the Fest!
If you hadn't noticed, BMW has delayed the annoucement on MY05 changes to the X3. I'm a firm believer that they'll greatly increase the value of the entry-level 2.5 and 3.0 by adding more standard features at a minimal (if any) price increase.

A fully loaded X5 3.0 with all the silly options pushes $55,000. I think that the X3 would be better priced if a fully loaded X3 3.0 was $46,000 and not $50,000. That would mean that a normally equipped car (Auto, Prem, Cold Wthr, Metallic Paint) could be had for ~$40-41,000.

We also got sticker shock when some normally-equipped X3 2.5's showed up with window stickers near $40,000. We knew the prices, but didn't think they'd get that expensive with only things like Leather, Auto, Premium, and Cold Weather Packages.
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  #11  
Old 07-10-2004, 05:33 PM
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my 2003 325iT at $27,000 is sounding better all the time
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  #12  
Old 07-10-2004, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atyclb
my 2003 325iT at $27,000 is sounding better all the time
Yeah, but you have to drive a wagon!

Let's just say that I beat BMW's "Lease Special" on a base 2.5 with a well-equipped 3.0. I think I did ok...
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  #13  
Old 07-11-2004, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emission
As an X5 owner, I just don't get the X3. If it was priced $30K-$40K (loaded), then I would get it... but my nicely equipped X5 was only about $47K... and I think the X5 is much more value.

Oh, we're looking forward to another X3 expert around here. Welcome to these parts of the Fest!
: (also hope next gen X5 doesn't grow too much) Congrats to you both,I hope you get good scores from him on delivery.
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  #14  
Old 07-11-2004, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emission
As an X5 owner, I just don't get the X3. If it was priced $30K-$40K (loaded), then I would get it... but my nicely equipped X5 was only about $47K... and I think the X5 is much more value.

Oh, we're looking forward to another X3 expert around here. Welcome to these parts of the Fest!
I use the same logic and don't see why an X5 is worth the extra dollars (3.0). Bigger on the outside and smaller with less capacity on the inside. Heavier by 1000 lbs (slower). Doesn't have the super-cool moon roof. And of course interior is personal preference where some people see a grand canyon between the interiors of the X3 and X5 while I see a little stream.

For me, the X5 should be bigger and not even offer the smallest engine. Now if I were towing something, then I'd graviate to the X5 with the more horses.

No offense, but the X5 to me represents a lack of value. I need it to be bigger!

I own an X3 and picked it up in Munich. This increases the price difference more (although incentives have appeared which narrows that gap a little bit).
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  #15  
Old 07-11-2004, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beware_phog
"I use the same logic and don't see why an X5 is worth the extra dollars (3.0)..."

Well... not really all what you said... but I'm not in the mood to argue.

Try comparing the E39 530i and E46 330i (both on the market at the same time). Was the E39 worth nearly $20,000 more? It's chassis, materials, and driving dynamics... not size and engine.
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  #16  
Old 07-11-2004, 10:44 AM
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Sarafil, prepare your father for first year production squeeks and creaks. (Or is it just me?)

Regarding pricing of X3/X5, it should be clear to almost everyone that almost no one is paying MSRP for an X3. And to some of us, the $7000 or so difference between the two is pretty big. While the dollar amount of pmts over 5 or 6 years may not seem like a lot, it adds up eventually. Yeah i know some would say that if i'm paying ~$40k for a car I shoudlnt' worry about price, but what kinda crazy logic is that?

The X3 just fits better for me.
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  #17  
Old 07-11-2004, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL
If you hadn't noticed, BMW has delayed the annoucement on MY05 changes to the X3. I'm a firm believer that they'll greatly increase the value of the entry-level 2.5 and 3.0 by adding more standard features at a minimal (if any) price increase.

A fully loaded X5 3.0 with all the silly options pushes $55,000. I think that the X3 would be better priced if a fully loaded X3 3.0 was $46,000 and not $50,000. That would mean that a normally equipped car (Auto, Prem, Cold Wthr, Metallic Paint) could be had for ~$40-41,000.

We also got sticker shock when some normally-equipped X3 2.5's showed up with window stickers near $40,000. We knew the prices, but didn't think they'd get that expensive with only things like Leather, Auto, Premium, and Cold Weather Packages.
But a fully loaded X3 IS more like $46k if you leave out NAV. I was surprised when I added up a loaded 2.5 and it came out to 40k+, though. The problem with the 2.5 was that it had been decontented so much to squeeze it down to $30k (didn't it start out at $29xxx?) that it's not at even what many of us here would consider 'BMWish' until you've got 3 or 4 grand into it. The far cheaper-looking interior definitely doesn't give the X3 a good apples-to-apples comparison case to the X5, either. Put a E46 interior in it, and it starts to talk.

When I originally heard that the X3 was going to start at $30k, I thought the X5 3.0's days were numbered, but that's definitely not the case today. I agree, BMW needs to do what Jag has done with the XType and throw 3-4k worh of extras as standard and raise the base by less than half that. This had been done on the E46 to an extent, but over time. The X3 needs it NOW and all at once.
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  #18  
Old 07-11-2004, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaz
But a fully loaded X3 IS more like $46k if you leave out NAV. I was surprised when I added up a loaded 2.5 and it came out to 40k+, though.
Our car is $44,145. It doesn't have the Premium Package (but has leather and the roof), doesn't have Xenons, doesn't have Nav, doesn't have Premium Sound, and doesn't have a variety of the not-so-important options like PDC, power-fold mirrors, Servotronic steering, etc.

I just built one on BMWUSA.com and checked all the boxes (what I consider to be "loaded"), and it's $49,770. Taking out some of the stuff like PDC, power fold mirrors, the cargo net, etc., it still comes out at $48,000.

I think it would be priced better at ~$45,000 for a "loaded" car sans Navigation, and ~$46,500 for one with it.

Take the time to "load up" a 2.5, and it's $45,000. That's absurd-- how do you add $15,000 in options to a $30,000 car and not think something is wrong with that? The 2.5 should top out at ~$40,000, not closer to $45,000.
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  #19  
Old 07-11-2004, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaz
But a fully loaded X3 IS more like $46k if you leave out NAV. I was surprised when I added up a loaded 2.5 and it came out to 40k+, though. The problem with the 2.5 was that it had been decontented so much to squeeze it down to $30k (didn't it start out at $29xxx?) that it's not at even what many of us here would consider 'BMWish' until you've got 3 or 4 grand into it. The far cheaper-looking interior definitely doesn't give the X3 a good apples-to-apples comparison case to the X5, either. Put a E46 interior in it, and it starts to talk.

When I originally heard that the X3 was going to start at $30k, I thought the X5 3.0's days were numbered, but that's definitely not the case today. I agree, BMW needs to do what Jag has done with the XType and throw 3-4k worh of extras as standard and raise the base by less than half that. This had been done on the E46 to an extent, but over time. The X3 needs it NOW and all at once.
That was exactly what my sales person told me when I asked about how they were moving the X3's at the dealer... the "incentives" are what is moving X3's not the vehicle itself.

I'm sorry, but the X3 looks and feels cheap if you do not put around $8k on top of it... and still is lacking something that I cannot put my finger on it, IMO.
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  #20  
Old 07-11-2004, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic
I'm sorry, but the X3 looks and feels cheap if you do not put around $8k on top of it... and still is lacking something that I cannot put my finger on it, IMO.
I think the Z4/X3 interior is really doing itself in.

I mean, look:

X5:


X3:


Even if you stuck wood in the thing, the X3 interior just doesn't have the 'richness' that the X5 has. I'll use the Bangle Butt is Fine excuse line here, but you buy one, you're gonna be looking at this interior the whole time...
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  #21  
Old 07-11-2004, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaz
I think the Z4/X3 interior is really doing itself in.

I mean, look:

Even if you stuck wood in the thing, the X3 interior just doesn't have the 'richness' that the X5 has. I'll use the Bangle Butt is Fine excuse line here, but you buy one, you're gonna be looking at this interior the whole time...

Agree. I'd find that interior hard to stomach on a 25k car. Spending 40-50k and getting it is just huge slap in the face. Other than x-drive, why does anyone buy the x3 over the 325xiT? I really don't get it.
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Old 07-11-2004, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robg
Agree. I'd find that interior hard to stomach on a 25k car. Spending 40-50k and getting it is just huge slap in the face. Other than x-drive, why does anyone buy the x3 over the 325xiT? I really don't get it.
The x3 does admittedly have far more cargo room. Passenger room isn't that different, though it's differently configured.
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  #23  
Old 07-11-2004, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robg
"... Other than x-drive, why does anyone buy the x3 over the 325xiT? I really don't get it."
Same reason I bought an X5 over a 525iT.... on Friday night I drove up a curb to park. I couldn't do that in a station wagon.

My wife had many "cars" before we bought the X5. Unlike every previous vehicle she's owned, she's never curbed the wheels or ripped up the front spoiler on a driveway in the X5. There is an advantage to the ride height.
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  #24  
Old 07-12-2004, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beware_phog
I use the same logic and don't see why an X5 is worth the extra dollars (3.0). Bigger on the outside and smaller with less capacity on the inside. Heavier by 1000 lbs (slower). Doesn't have the super-cool moon roof. And of course interior is personal preference where some people see a grand canyon between the interiors of the X3 and X5 while I see a little stream.

For me, the X5 should be bigger and not even offer the smallest engine. Now if I were towing something, then I'd graviate to the X5 with the more horses.

No offense, but the X5 to me represents a lack of value. I need it to be bigger!

I own an X3 and picked it up in Munich. This increases the price difference more (although incentives have appeared which narrows that gap a little bit).

The X3 and X5 target different markets and needs. For myself, the X5 had been on the market for quite some time, and I was never remotely interested in it. The X3 with it's fantastic handling did however get me to plop down my hard earned $$$.

I'm not trying to knock the X5, I know there are many happy owners out there, but even if the price was the same for the X3 and X5 I would still choose the X3. It just suits my needs better, and is more fun to drive.

If you check this years sales figures, the X3 is holding it's own vs the X5 quite well, so there seems to be a market for it.

I hope you guys enjoy your X5, and I'll enjoy my X3. Let's play nice, there's room for both of us here.
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  #25  
Old 07-12-2004, 06:28 AM
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I definitely agree with harplayr, the cars are for 2 different markets. When I was at the dealership picking out the options on my new X5, my wife and I got the chance to drive the X3. We actually drove it to the other lot which housed the X5's. I have to say that I wasn't that impressed. My wife immediately thought the car was horrendous (she's not really the outdoors type). Anyways, after driven both I completely understood why they have the X3, and X5.

The X3 just has a much more rugged feel all around. I know a lot of people complain about the cheap plastic interior, but for outdoors people, it makes sense. You can spill mud, dirt, food, etc all over the dash and simply wipe it off with some water and paper towels. Although I find this useless if you have leather seats in a car anyways, you definitely want to take care of that. I think this car is marketed towards a younger, sportier crowd. Thouh, I'm 24, and I'd prefer the X5 all the way.

The X5 is just much more luxurious. Having the two cars side by side, you can see that hands down, the X5 is much more "BMWish" car. It's more luxurious and it feels a lot smoother all around. I'd say this car is marketed more towards those that need a luxurious bigger car, and not necessarily looking to do anything truely off road with it.

My final comments to some of these posts...

beware_phog, which car "doesn't have the super cool moon-roof"? The X5 has an optional panorama moonroof that comes with the premium package...so I got the "super cool moon-roof" ordered on my car.

And harplayr, after have driven both cars the X3 and X5 right after each other, IMHO, the X5 is a better drive. Although I haven't driven the X3 with Servotronic steering, I think the X5 has a better feel over all. A feel that suits me better.
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