Finally saw an ATS

Cadillac designed the compact ATS to compete with the BMW 3 Series, but GM says the new Caddy is also cutting into CTS sales. Edmunds.com backs that up with data showing potential buyers are cross-shopping the ATS with the CTS as well as the BMW.

Automotive News spoke to the head of Cadillac sales, Chase Hawkins, who admits The General expected the ATS to cannibalize sales of the CTS. But Hawkins says a plan is in place to deal with the drop in CTS sales: make fewer of them.

"We've planned for ATS to take some CTS customers out of the market who we otherwise would have seen," Hawkins tells AN. "We definitely are going to be producing fewer CTSes next year to create some of that space for ATS."

The next-generation CTS is expected to be larger and costlier, which should better separate the two stablemates in the marketplace. As the two models find their own niches, AN speculates a few more import buyers to come back to the iconic American brand.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/25/c...ll-cut-output/

Originally Posted by dtc100

I don't think you gain much credibility by just calling him an idiot, and therefore he must be wrong, without telling us why you are correct when you say for example you reached the opposite conclusion about the handling of the cars.

Also it was not just his own view, notice he said "we think...". I think more than one MT reviewers did that comparison, and agreed on the verdict in principle, he was just the more enthusiastic of the group

And BTW, you did miss the point made by the previous poster. The guy intentionally switched the headquarters around to prove his point that the two German companies steal each other's infotainment designs.

First, I'm not trying to gain credibility. I'm perfectly satisfied with the credibility I've established here over the past seven years. Second, I did point out more than one reason I find his reviews worthless.

It appears to me he is likely using the royal "we".

Yes, I did miss his purposeful reversal. I was so shocked by it that I did, in fact, miss the next few words he said. I even missed them the next two times when I went back and watched that segment again to confirm what he said. I was focused on confirming the reversal and did indeed miss the next few words. I still think the guy is a lousy auto reviewer, not based solely on this review.

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

CTS sales nosediving thanks to new ATS, so GM will cut output

The ATS is going to hurt Buick too.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

The ATS is going to hurt Buick too.

BJ

It likely will but probably not it the U.S.

CA

Given that 70% ATS buyers are first time Caddy drivers, I don't think it has caused the CTS sales to nosedive. I think it has a lot to do with people waiting for the new gen CTS to be available next year.

The CTS is due for a redesign and I'm sure it's coming. I saw the CTS next to the ATS at the car show and it really looks dated as the ATS and XTS are sleeker and have rounded edges. The chiseled look is no longer interesting.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Given that 70% ATS buyers are first time Caddy drivers, I don't think it has caused the CTS sales to nosedive. I think it has a lot to do with people waiting for the new gen CTS to be available next year.

Are you kidding?! The only people who even know there is a new CTS a year away are CTS enthusiasts who hang out on CTS forums, just like the only people who knew a new 3er was coming were the people here. That is an infinitesimally small segment of the market. Even now people show up on Bimmerfest every day who don't realize the F30 is brand new or that the E92/93 are the out going models.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Are you kidding?! The only people who even know there is a new CTS a year away are CTS enthusiasts who hang out on CTS forums, just like the only people who knew a new 3er was coming were the people here, that is an infinitesimally small segment of the market. Even now people show up on Bimmerfest every who don't realize the F30 is brand new or that the E92/93 are the out going models.

I never thought to kid you, you don't appear someone who I should kid with

GM sold 1,260 ATSs in the first full month of sales last month, according to their own data, over 70% of those were first time Caddy buyers, that leaves less than 378 repeat Caddy buyers. Even if we assume 378 of them were ex-CTS drivers, that number would still not have caused the CTS sales to "nosedive" from its usual 5,000+ sales down to 2,000+ sales.

The ATS sales will have to be in the 5,000+ (and assume 70% continues to be first time Caddy buyers), and the CTS sales continues to drop by 2,000+, for me to agree ATS is eating into CTS's sales. Now future sales numbers might point to that direction, but I am doubtful.

Let's first see how many ATSs they can really sell in the future months, before we draw any correlation.

Originally Posted by sf_loft

The CTS is due for a redesign and I'm sure it's coming. I saw the CTS next to the ATS at the car show and it really looks dated as the ATS and XTS are sleeker and have rounded edges. The chiseled look is no longer interesting.

There is a great deal of complaint from the existing CTS owners about the softened look of the ATS, and the future CTS. According to many of them, the softened look is GM selling them out to the Chinese market

Originally Posted by dtc100

I never thought to kid you, you don't appear someone who I should kid with

GM sold 1,260 ATSs in the first full month of sales last month, according to their own data, over 70% of those were first time Caddy buyers, that leaves less than 378 repeat Caddy buyers. Even if we assume 378 of them were ex-CTS drivers, that number would still not have caused the CTS sales to "nosedive" from its usual 5,000+ sales down to 2,000+ sales.

The ATS sales will have to be in the 5,000+ (and assume 70% continues to be first time Caddy buyers), and the CTS sales continues to drop by 2,000+, for me to agree ATS is eating into CTS's sales. Now future sales numbers might point to that direction, but I am doubtful.

Let's first see how many ATSs they can really sell in the future months, before we draw any correlation.

I won't disagree, but it just as unlikely that 3,000 would-be CTS buyers didn't buy a CTS because they are waiting on the new CTS. I doubt 10% of the population considering a CTS over the coming year is aware there is a new model coming in 2014.