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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 02-25-2013, 07:17 AM
kyoung42 kyoung42 is offline
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She's almost out the door

Alright guys, I tried my best not to post in here without doing my homework. But it seems like this is a common problem and everyoneís fix is different. I have been at it for about 3 weeks now and I'm at a lost. I went to start my 95 525i one morning and it wouldn't start. I thought it was the fuel pump because Iím not getting any power to the pump. So far I have replaced the fuel pump, the fuel pump relay, the dme relay, the crankshaft position sensor, did a stomp test and got code 1. The car will not turn over. It will attempt to start all day long but will not turn over. The only thing left to replace is the DME. I would hate to purchase one and it still doesnít start. I tested the new fuel pump out by going directly to the battery and it worked fine. I even tested the old pump and it was fine. Car was working fine up until this point. So, I'm at a lost any help would be greatly appreciated. Like the title says, she's almost out the door. I would hate to let her go because I love this car.
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  #2  
Old 02-25-2013, 08:08 AM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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cranking untill the cows come home but never firing sounds exactly like a CPS, which you've replaced, or no fuel. are you sure fuel is making it to the rails?
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1995 525iA 250k mi
2006 325i/6 57k mi
2003 350Z 88k mi

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  #3  
Old 02-25-2013, 09:42 AM
kyoung42 kyoung42 is offline
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I'm pretty sure it is. After installing the new fuel pump and it still wouldn't crank. I took it back out to check my wires. When I removed the hoses going to the sending unit, gas was flowing from one of the lines. Is there another way to test, to see if fuel is getting to the rails? Also, I should still here the pump when I turn the key to the on poisition right ?

Last edited by kyoung42; 02-26-2013 at 06:04 PM.
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  #4  
Old 03-03-2013, 03:17 PM
kyoung42 kyoung42 is offline
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Ok, so I had some time to work on the car and I realized itís a fuel delivery problem. I got a friend to look at the fuel pump while I was trying to crank the car and the fuel pump is indeed trying to run. We took the fuel line going to the rail off and gas started spraying out like crazy in my face So we decided to pour gas in the throttle body and see if the car would crank. Sure enough it fired right up and dies out after about 3 sec. I replaced the fuel filter today to see if that was it. Car still wouldn't start. The only thing I can think of at this point is the fuel pressure regulator. It could be my injectors. But I doubt all 6 of them would go out at the same time. Let me know what guys think?
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  #5  
Old 03-03-2013, 04:21 PM
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Maybe the injector plugs? Which would also point towards the DME. What year is the car?
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  #6  
Old 03-03-2013, 05:33 PM
kyoung42 kyoung42 is offline
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Its a 95 525i..So you think the DME is bad ?
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  #7  
Old 03-04-2013, 06:14 AM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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It definitely could be. You can find DMEs for pretty cheap too, like $60. I believe yours is a 413 Red Label.
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1995 525iA 250k mi
2006 325i/6 57k mi
2003 350Z 88k mi

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  #8  
Old 03-11-2013, 06:35 AM
kyoung42 kyoung42 is offline
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OK, so I was able to work on the car this weekend. I got the red label DME installed (thanks to BMR_LVR, for helping me bypass the EWS and troubleshoot this thing). After getting the DME installed it still won't start. I poured gas into the throttle again and she fired right up. But died out after a couple of seconds. Took the rail off to check for gas at the rail. It had plenty of gas there. Checked for spark and I have spark. Did a voltage test on the injector connections. I am puzzled at this point. So far I have replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump relay, main relay, DME, and crankshaft position sensor. I don't know what else it could be; do you guys have any more ideas? ANYTHING would be helpful at this point. What am I missing ?Thanks.

Last edited by kyoung42; 03-11-2013 at 06:43 AM.
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  #9  
Old 03-11-2013, 07:06 AM
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Maf?
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1995 525iA 250k mi
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2003 350Z 88k mi

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  #10  
Old 03-11-2013, 08:01 AM
kyoung42 kyoung42 is offline
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I thought that it could be that, but wouldn't I get a code if I did a stomp test ?
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  #11  
Old 03-11-2013, 08:11 AM
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Probably but you never know. You've done so much already our options are dwindling. Unplug the MAF and try it
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2003 350Z 88k mi

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  #12  
Old 03-11-2013, 08:15 AM
kyoung42 kyoung42 is offline
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I will give it a try today. Thanks.
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  #13  
Old 03-11-2013, 10:14 AM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Hey guys. This is a little more information from mine and kyoung42's attempte to get his car started. I went to his house Saturday to try to help him start his car and we were unsuccessful.

Car: 1995 525i
Problem: No start
Symptoms: One day he was going to leave for work and the car just would not start. The engine would crank over fine, but would not start.

Parts he replaced: Fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel pump relay, fuel pump fuse, fuel pressure regulator, CPS (due to cable that was FUBAR), main relay

He initially contacted me about a DME swap which we did successfully. He has the same problem with the red label DME. I told him that the chances that two separate DME's would have the same problem are one in a ca'billion.

We determined that the problem is fuel delivery for sure because the car will run if gas is poured into the throttle body (with the original DME and with the swapped over red label DME), so I know that the basic electrical system is working (CPS , coils, plugs, DME). I jumped the fuel pump relay and he has fuel to the rail.

However, neither of us have a fuel pressure gauge, so we could not confirm that he has sufficient fuel pressure. I know that this may be the critical link, but I'm confused as to why this could be the problem since he has new components including the fuel pressure regulator. I will say that his fuel pump is not OEM, so I suppose that it may not be generating sufficient pressure, but I would think that is highly unlikely.

Interestingly enough, we pulled the fuel return line from the fuel rail, activated the pump with the jumper switch, and there was no fuel coming from the return side of the fuel rail. I don't know enough about this system to know if this is normal. We removed the rail. It was full of fuel and the fuel would run out of the return port when it was tilted. Of note, after attempts to crank the car, there was sufficient pressure in the system to make fuel spray when the fuel line was disconnected.

We checked for voltage at the injectors and had 12+ volts at each one with the ignition on. We checked for pulsed voltage when cranking as the Bentley manual recommends. As far as I could tell, the injectors seemed to be receiving the proper signal; they just didn't seem to have fuel which has me totally perplexed.

I did notice that the vacuum line going to the fuel pressure regulator was somewhat dry rotted. I did not trace it to its termination point as I should have. I don't know the role that this vacuum line plays in the arena of regulating the fuel pressure. Can anyone shed some light on that for me? My thinking is that, if he's not getting vacuum to the FPR, then it won't function properly and thus may cause a fuel pressure too low to work

He said that at one point, he got a MAF code after trying starting fluid. When I got there, he had his battery disconnected so all codes had been deleted. After our efforts, I did the stomp test and got 1444.

So, basically what he has is a car that will run if gas is poured into the throttle body, but that's the only way it will run.

I know this duplicates some of the inforation he put in his post, but I had written this up yesterday in plans for posting it here. I may also post on the E36 forum since it is a M50 engine.

Any help would be appreciated.
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #14  
Old 03-11-2013, 11:09 AM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR_LVR View Post
Car: 1995 525i
Problem: No start
Symptoms: One day he was going to leave for work and the car just would not start. The engine would crank over fine, but would not start.

Interestingly enough, we pulled the fuel return line from the fuel rail, activated the pump with the jumper switch, and there was no fuel coming from the return side of the fuel rail. I don't know enough about this system to know if this is normal. We removed the rail. It was full of fuel and the fuel would run out of the return port when it was tilted. Of note, after attempts to crank the car, there was sufficient pressure in the system to make fuel spray when the fuel line was disconnected.

I did notice that the vacuum line going to the fuel pressure regulator was somewhat dry rotted. I did not trace it to its termination point as I should have. I don't know the role that this vacuum line plays in the arena of regulating the fuel pressure. Can anyone shed some light on that for me? My thinking is that, if he's not getting vacuum to the FPR, then it won't function properly and thus may cause a fuel pressure too low to work
So, basically what he has is a car that will run if gas is poured into the throttle body, but that's the only way it will run.
I think these two bits will hold the answer. The FPR may use information from the vacuum line, and if thats shot, the FPR could malfuntion and not provide enough pressure. You could replace this hose and see if fuel comes out of the return line (im not sure if it's supposed to or not in this scenario, however). If it does, i'd put good money on the car firing.
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1995 525iA 250k mi
2006 325i/6 57k mi
2003 350Z 88k mi

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  #15  
Old 03-11-2013, 12:15 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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I just reviewed Bentley, section 130, and realized that I was incorrect regarding the return line (told ya I didn't know a lot about the fuel system) and supply line locations

When we jumped the terminals for the fuel pump, we were actually getting fuel coming out of the return line, not the supply line

I just got off of the phone kyoung42 and it may be as simple as him accidentally crossing the supply line and return line at the pump when he put it in. He's headed home now and plans to swap the ilnes at the pump.

Fingers crossed.
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #16  
Old 03-11-2013, 12:17 PM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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Location: Pineapple Under the Sea
 
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I think you may have nailed it, Steve. I thought that we had previously mentioned the wires may be crossed. Maybe i'm confusing threads... Hope this works.
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1995 525iA 250k mi
2006 325i/6 57k mi
2003 350Z 88k mi

Instagram: @Titan_E34
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  #17  
Old 03-11-2013, 12:28 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsignor View Post
I think you may have nailed it, Steve. I thought that we had previously mentioned the wires may be crossed. Maybe i'm confusing threads... Hope this works.
Yeah, I'm not talking about the possible crossed CPS and ICV connectors. That was a different poster (E34Obession if I recall correctly). I'm referring to connecting the fuel lines incorrectly at the pump. Hopefully we will see soon.
__________________
Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #18  
Old 03-11-2013, 12:45 PM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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Location: Pineapple Under the Sea
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Mein Auto: M50 Big Body
right, thats what i thought we had mentioned. Either way, lets hope this does it...
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1995 525iA 250k mi
2006 325i/6 57k mi
2003 350Z 88k mi

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  #19  
Old 03-11-2013, 05:09 PM
kyoung42 kyoung42 is offline
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Location: Durham,North Carolina
 
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Mein Auto: 2007 525i, 2009 328i
On the road again!!!! Thanks to EVERYONE that contributed to this thread. Turns out the fuel lines at the pump were crossed. After I got the lines correct she fired right up. Thanks Steve for taking the time to help me out, I really appreciate it. I don't know what the actual problem was because I have replaced so many parts . But I'm glad she's running again.
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  #20  
Old 03-12-2013, 06:06 AM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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Bravo!
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