Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)

F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-18-2015, 04:24 AM
DieselJunkie DieselJunkie is offline
Registered User
Location: North Florida
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 45
Mein Auto: 2015 535d
BMW shines in latest JD Power Survey

Standing at #6 in the initial quality survey and beating out Lexus, Mercedes, Toyota, and Honda. Porsche was ranked #1.
__________________
2015 535d/ Dark Graphite/ Cinnamon Dakota/ Luxury Seating/ Night Vision/ ACC Stop & Go/ Premium Pkg/ Driver Assistance/ Driver Assistance Plus/ Cold Wx

Advertisement
  #2  
Old 06-18-2015, 04:39 AM
chsu74 chsu74 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: CT
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 194
Mein Auto: 550XI,GL320,993TT
BMW shines in latest JD Power Survey

Is JDP no longer unbiased and independent?

Edit: just saw that it is initial quality. Of course it is. Wait until you own it for some time. Surprise...
  #3  
Old 06-18-2015, 04:52 AM
DieselJunkie DieselJunkie is offline
Registered User
Location: North Florida
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 45
Mein Auto: 2015 535d
Quote:
Originally Posted by chsu74 View Post
Is JDP no longer unbiased and independent?

Edit: just saw that it is initial quality. Of course it is. Wait until you own it for some time. Surprise...
I guess you can save your sarcasm, in case they do well in the "overall quality" survey. Of course if they score poorly, where does that leave you?
__________________
2015 535d/ Dark Graphite/ Cinnamon Dakota/ Luxury Seating/ Night Vision/ ACC Stop & Go/ Premium Pkg/ Driver Assistance/ Driver Assistance Plus/ Cold Wx

  #4  
Old 06-18-2015, 05:26 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,188
Mein Auto: 2015 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by chsu74 View Post
Is JDP no longer unbiased and independent?

Edit: just saw that it is initial quality. Of course it is. Wait until you own it for some time. Surprise...
When has JD power been bias, they use a random survey? You must have them confused with consumer report.

On a side note, Porsche and Jaguar is really making some high quality cars these days, they have been on or near the top in both initial and long term quality reports for the last few years. The Koreans and Infiniti are climbing the ladder fast and as I have noticed for a quite some time now, Lexus' quality have been on the decline.


Last edited by The X Men; 06-18-2015 at 05:34 AM.
  #5  
Old 06-18-2015, 11:37 AM
3Pedals_6Speeds 3Pedals_6Speeds is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Central Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 237
Mein Auto: fun cars
I think the f10 was #1 in the midsize luxury category as well.
__________________
Drive fast, take chances.

  #6  
Old 06-18-2015, 11:54 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,188
Mein Auto: 2015 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Pedals_6Speeds View Post
I think the f10 was #1 in the midsize luxury category as well.
2, 4 and 5 series all at the top of the list in their category, it has been a good year for BMW.
  #7  
Old 06-18-2015, 03:55 PM
Quacker Quacker is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 783
Mein Auto: 2012 535i xDrive
Look at Jaguar! I never though I would see them in such a good spot! I wonder how they will hold up?
__________________
2012 535ix Space Gray, Cinnamon, SAT, Premium, Prem sound, Cold W., Sunshades, Gloss Black Grille, Gloss Black Side Markers, RE970AS 245/45/19 non-run flats that run very smooth + quiet and also correct the otherwise optimistic speedo
  #8  
Old 06-19-2015, 06:59 PM
AutoUnion's Avatar
AutoUnion AutoUnion is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: East Coast
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,461
Mein Auto: German
IQS doesn't mean anything. It's basically a survey of the first 90 days of ownership. Look at Acura!
  #9  
Old 06-20-2015, 04:34 AM
Edino Edino is offline
Registered User
Location: Dubai
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 98
Mein Auto: 2013 BMW 5301
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
IQS doesn't mean anything. It's basically a survey of the first 90 days of ownership. Look at Acura!
IQS is not meaningless at all. Its a very usable indication of the quality control during manufacturing as well some other factors. For ongoing reliability studies there are other surveys.
__________________
2013 BMW 530i


Last edited by Edino; 06-20-2015 at 04:37 AM.
  #10  
Old 06-20-2015, 05:50 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Destin, FL
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,079
Mein Auto: 535i
I see FIAT still stands for "Fix it again, Tony"
  #11  
Old 06-20-2015, 06:28 AM
chsu74 chsu74 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: CT
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 194
Mein Auto: 550XI,GL320,993TT
BMW shines in latest JD Power Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselJunkie View Post
I guess you can save your sarcasm, in case they do well in the "overall quality" survey. Of course if they score poorly, where does that leave you?

I own 3 out of 4 German makes. Porsche consistently delivers the highest quality out of the box. Cars have to satisfy form and function as two basic distinct criteria.

First 90 days of ownership offers no insight into its functional role as a basic transportation day in and out. You are still in your honeymoon stage. Therefore this initial quality report offers no real meaning and merit.

Last edited by chsu74; 06-20-2015 at 06:30 AM.
  #12  
Old 06-20-2015, 07:41 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,188
Mein Auto: 2015 535xi 2013 X3 35i
I think the IQS does mean something, just not as much as the long term survey. Afterall, who wants to bring their brand new into the shop right after purchase.
  #13  
Old 06-20-2015, 10:12 AM
chsu74 chsu74 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: CT
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 194
Mein Auto: 550XI,GL320,993TT
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I think the IQS does mean something, just not as much as the long term survey. Afterall, who wants to bring their brand new into the shop right after purchase.

Are you talking about a lawn mower or a $70K car?
  #14  
Old 06-20-2015, 10:36 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,188
Mein Auto: 2015 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by chsu74 View Post
Are you talking about a lawn mower or a $70K car?
Does JD power have a IQS and a long term reliability survey on lawn mowers?
  #15  
Old 06-20-2015, 11:11 AM
Dean_S Dean_S is offline
Registered User
Location: Kansas
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 67
Mein Auto: 2015 535d x-drive
What would happen if you normalized the scoring to be faults divided by a measure of vehicle complexity?
__________________
2015 335d X-drive Space Grey
BMW full diameter compact spare and jack kit
18" wheels, tire repair kit and compressor
Euro spec aspheric mirrors
High security McGard wheel locks [from Europe only]
Full XPEL package
AquaPel rain repellent
Opti-Lube additives
  #16  
Old 06-20-2015, 03:47 PM
chsu74 chsu74 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: CT
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 194
Mein Auto: 550XI,GL320,993TT
BMW shines in latest JD Power Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Does JD power have a IQS and a long term reliability survey on lawn mowers?

It appears that some people can't tell the difference in managing expectations between a $400 lawn mower and $70K vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean_S View Post
What would happen if you normalized the scoring to be faults divided by a measure of vehicle complexity?

All vehicles manufactured today are more complex and face the same challenges in development. Individual component quality control and supplier choice makes a difference in end product reliability.

The electronics in BMWs, as an example, are not as advanced as Japanese makes. German car makers used to excel in their drivetrain technology with efficiency and hp per liter yield in a reliable but higher maintenance platform. Sadly, it is no longer the case where one can rationalize giving up more advanced electronic technology for a "better" driving experience.
  #17  
Old 06-20-2015, 05:28 PM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,188
Mein Auto: 2015 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by chsu74 View Post
It appears that some people can't tell the difference in managing expectations between a $400 lawn mower and $70K vehicle.
I expect my $70K car to have good initial quality right out of the factory, that's why I said the IQS is not meaningless and while you said it offers no real meaning and merit. On a $400lawn mower, I could accept some minor flaws in initial quality but I would still try to find a brand that has higher initial quality. I also stated that long term reliability survey is more important than IQS. I am not sure what your point is with your remark regarding the lawn mower, can you please explain?
  #18  
Old 06-20-2015, 05:39 PM
chsu74 chsu74 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: CT
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 194
Mein Auto: 550XI,GL320,993TT
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I expect my $70K car to have good initial quality right out of the factory, that's why I said the IQS is not meaningless and while you said it offers no real meaning and merit. On a $400lawn mower, I could accept some minor flaws in initial quality but I would still try to find a brand that has higher initial quality. I also stated that long term reliability survey is more important than IQS. I am not sure what your point is with your remark regarding the lawn mower, can you please explain?

I would expect the quality control process and procedure on a $70k car would be so rigorous in today's competitive car market that 90 days of ownership should pass without issues.

On a $400 lawn mower.. Not so much.

That is why IQS means very little to me.
  #19  
Old 06-20-2015, 05:48 PM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,188
Mein Auto: 2015 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by chsu74 View Post
I would expect the quality control process and procedure on a $70k car would be so rigorous in today's competitive car market that 90 days of ownership should pass without issues.

On a $400 lawn mower.. Not so much.

That is why IQS means very little to me.
If you look at the chart above, there are expensive cars on top and at the bottom of the chart. Kia is #2 and land Rover is near the bottom.
  #20  
Old 06-20-2015, 05:55 PM
3Pedals_6Speeds 3Pedals_6Speeds is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Central Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 237
Mein Auto: fun cars
I used to teach a class in reliability engineering in college. Initial quality is generally considered a proxy for manufacturing/production quality. Longer term quality (reliability) is generally more correlated with (as engineered) design quality.

No absolutes, but you could design a heap of junk that is well assembled, but doesn't last. Conversely, you could design something that's got legs, but the production folks screw it up and you have to 'finish' it once in the customers hands.

Relationship between the two (initial and long term quality) is generally positively correlated (increase in one means increase in the other and vice versa), but varies in how closely correlated company to company.
__________________
Drive fast, take chances.

  #21  
Old 06-20-2015, 06:23 PM
chsu74 chsu74 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: CT
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 194
Mein Auto: 550XI,GL320,993TT
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
If you look at the chart above, there are expensive cars on top and at the bottom of the chart. Kia is #2 and land Rover is near the bottom.

There is a correlation between a country's culture and the vehicle it produces.

Japanese and Korean cars are boring but reliable.

German engineering quality and functionality

Italian cars are good to look at only.

English cars and their Lucas electronics. Nuff said.

U.S. Manufactures known for lack of build quality but cheap to maintain.

French cars...
  #22  
Old 06-20-2015, 06:26 PM
chsu74 chsu74 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: CT
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 194
Mein Auto: 550XI,GL320,993TT
BMW shines in latest JD Power Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Pedals_6Speeds View Post
I used to teach a class in reliability engineering in college. Initial quality is generally considered a proxy for manufacturing/production quality. Longer term quality (reliability) is generally more correlated with (as engineered) design quality.



No absolutes, but you could design a heap of junk that is well assembled, but doesn't last. Conversely, you could design something that's got legs, but the production folks screw it up and you have to 'finish' it once in the customers hands.



Relationship between the two (initial and long term quality) is generally positively correlated (increase in one means increase in the other and vice versa), but varies in how closely correlated company to company.

Well said. Also the culture of the people and country manufacturing the vehicle has a direct correlation to the end product it makes.

I source and import products from over 20 countries around the world. It does not only apply to cars.

Last edited by chsu74; 06-20-2015 at 06:29 PM.
  #23  
Old 06-21-2015, 04:27 AM
kinerin kinerin is offline
Registered User
Location: Dousman,wi
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 38
Mein Auto: 2014 535i xdrive
Always amazed by the naysayers on topics like these, particularily the ones who vehemently disagree...yet they continue to purchase the product.

Where does this leave them.??
  #24  
Old 06-21-2015, 05:15 AM
chsu74 chsu74 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: CT
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 194
Mein Auto: 550XI,GL320,993TT
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinerin View Post
Always amazed by the naysayers on topics like these, particularily the ones who vehemently disagree...yet they continue to purchase the product.



Where does this leave them.??

N63 power plant design problems came into light middle of last year in 2014. CCP on the N63 came out only in Jan of this year. That is 5 years after the engine was originally offered the X5 and 7 series. 3 years for the 5 series.

If you were doing your research on reliability with three cars 2 years ago, all threads said the engine was too new but it seems to be fine. I should have bought a 535D but hindsight 20/20 with our first world problems.
  #25  
Old 06-21-2015, 05:56 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,188
Mein Auto: 2015 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by chsu74 View Post
There is a correlation between a country's culture and the vehicle it produces.

Japanese and Korean cars are boring but reliable.

German engineering quality and functionality

Italian cars are good to look at only.

English cars and their Lucas electronics. Nuff said.

U.S. Manufactures known for lack of build quality but cheap to maintain.

French cars...
Wow, those are pretty generalize statements. I believe the auto industry and the consumers determine what the auto manufacturers' design priorities are. Auto companies world wide has to compete in categories that are important to customers, such as performance, reliability, comfort, quality, efficiency.........All the above statement might be very true decades ago, but it is slowing becoming less so.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms